Can AI see rangers/avengers?

cheerful coffin · Post by **cheerful coffin** » June 11th, 2006, 3:35 pm

There are several times that I am tempted to drop my avengers in a forest, which is behind the enemies. But I am not sure if AI can see all my units. So I figure I might as well ask since this, if works, is a beautiful strategy.

Post by **Ken_Oh** » June 11th, 2006, 4:24 pm

No, it can't. When a unit is hidden from view, I think the AI just doesn't consider it as there.

From what I understand, the current AI doesn't have anything that allows it to handle hidden units (Ambush, Submerge, Nightstalk), so it can neither see the unit nor anticipate where the unit might be. I've done this versus AI a bunch and it falls for it every time.

jg · Post by jg » June 11th, 2006, 5:31 pm

It's quite sweet to take 1-2 Elvish Avengers, drop them in a forest, go behind the back of the enemy, and take out the leader in 1-2 turns, ain't it?

jg

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » June 11th, 2006, 5:58 pm

In the old Siege of Elensefar, you could take three Rangers, put them in the forest, wait for the Orcish Warlord to step out into the water (which he usually did) and then massacre him.

Taking down an Orcish Warlord is nowhere near as impressive nowadays...

Aaaah the nostalgia. When I first played, IIRC, they had 15-4 melee and 80 HP. That totals to 60 melee damage even in twilight. Well, after a while, the devs realized that level 3s were way too powerful and toned them down, leaving the Warlord at 13-4. That leaves the Warlord still being the biggest, baddest unit on the battlefield - I mean, he's an Orc, right? Orcs are, like, THE melee race, and that guy is the top of the Orcish warrior line, so he should be powerful, eh? Well, it seems the devs didn't think so, because just recently they reduced the attack to 15-3, even less damage than your average level 3 fighter!

Give me a Royal Guard over a Warlord any day.

Post by **Noyga** » June 11th, 2006, 6:55 pm

The AI doesn't see hidden units, but when it did see them in the previous turns, it tries to find them...

kiet · Post by **kiet** » June 11th, 2006, 8:29 pm

The AI often find your hidden units because of these reasons.
It sees a village and try to claim it,but find your unit hiding instead.
It want to go and attack you leader and of course manage to find your unit.
So the AI really is stupid but lucky in several ways.(I think itÃ‚Â´s cheating

)

toms · Post by **toms** » June 12th, 2006, 12:09 pm

Elvish Pillager wrote:Aaaah the nostalgia. When I first played, IIRC, they had 15-4 melee and 80 HP. That totals to 60 melee damage even in twilight. Well, after a while, the devs realized that level 3s were way too powerful and toned them down, leaving the Warlord at 13-4. That leaves the Warlord still being the biggest, baddest unit on the battlefield - I mean, he's an Orc, right? Orcs are, like, THE melee race, and that guy is the top of the Orcish warrior line, so he should be powerful, eh? Well, it seems the devs didn't think so, because just recently they reduced the attack to 15-3, even less damage than your average level 3 fighter!

Give me a Royal Guard over a Warlord any day.

In good old times, elvish avengers had 10-5 melee

, the champions had 16-4 and 10-4, paladins were as strong as a grand knight with holy 5-strike sword, etc, etc. I want cool overpower nostalgia back!

(not to forget troll whelps with 20 xp...)

kiet · Post by **kiet** » June 12th, 2006, 12:27 pm

I

n good old times, elvish avengers ahd 10-5 melee , the champions had 16-4 and 10-4, paladins were as strong as a grand knight with holy 5-strike sword, etc, etc. I want cool overpower mostalgia back!
(not to forget troll whelps with 20 xp...)

Hmmm...........Yeah,I manged to see this yesterday when I was watching the ancient screenshots.
Hehehe,the Champion rocks a while then

and could easily pwn a Sharpshooter out in the open plains.

Post by **Baufo** » June 14th, 2006, 9:23 pm

I don't believe that the AI can not see ambushed units.

I'm currently working on a wose-campaign and I noticed that the AI will follow a wose moving around in the forest.
I can post replays to proof that

Post by **Soliton** » June 14th, 2006, 10:10 pm

Baufo wrote:I don't believe that the AI can not see ambushed units.

I'm currently working on a wose-campaign and I noticed that the AI will follow a wose moving around in the forest.
I can post replays to proof that :wink:

Then again you don't need to believe you can check the source code. Which incidentally is the only way to proof anything here.

kiet · Post by **kiet** » June 15th, 2006, 9:44 am

It is problely going at your leaders direction,or it is moving to claim a village,which is the way you are fleeing.

Elvish Orc Slayer · Post by **Elvish Orc Slayer** » June 15th, 2006, 6:32 pm

well, I was playing Slaying Dwarves, a senario on the Elf War campaign, and I had previously leveled up an archer to a ranger. now, while playing the level, I sent my Ranger and my Avenger General into the patches of forest (making them hidden) to smear the enemy dwarf.

the AI found both of my units once, while moving in no possisiton of interest, as if it was going after my units.

now, i believe it was possible that the AI was just going around my main area of troops to flank it, and got caught in the ZoC of my hidden elves. but it could also be, as kiet said, my comp must be cheating, and i thought that only a windows did that too you and not a mac...

The Elvish Orc Slayer

Post by **Thrawn** » June 15th, 2006, 6:43 pm

yup, and the computer also has better luck too:roll:

If the AI knows you have a unit, with ambush, and that it dissappeared, there are only so many places it could have gone... if it isn't actually coded, it's simply one's own idea that the computer has an unfair advantage

Post by **Baufo** » June 16th, 2006, 10:36 am

kiet wrote:It is problely going at your leaders direction,or it is moving to claim a village,which is the way you are fleeing.

Well, the scenario which I was talking about I have got only a single wose. If I moved it in one direction the whole army of my opponent followed him and as I retried it and moved in the other direction the whole army followed again the wose. It actually seems not to "see" the wose, but it's like it could "smell" it.

kiet · Post by **kiet** » June 16th, 2006, 2:23 pm

Hmmm................A wierd situation here.
Is that wose your leader?