Scenario 13: Dwarven Doors

Feedback for the mainline campaign Heir to the Throne.

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mega
Posts: 8
Joined: May 23rd, 2006, 11:15 am

Post by mega »

(1) medium, 1.1.2
(2) 5
(3) perfectly
(4) ok
(5) not losing all my money and keeping everybody alive
(6) 7, quite enjoyable
(7) telling me on turn 16 that the door is locked was a bit cheap and I would have been pretty upset had Konrad not been able to reach the other in the last turn.
(8) Started with 900ish gold, finished with 260 :-(. Let's say I traded money for experience.
(9) 20-25 advanced units
Commodore
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Post by Commodore »

How can you do this so easily? I had problems with previous missions too but I managed to solve those. Everyone's telling how easy it all is! I'm not stupid or anything. I have maths almost A and physics A in school. I don't play a lot of computer games though. I use the computer for art and other stuff. I'm not a dumbuser either because I can use Linux (I use Windows currently cause my family uses it).

The first try I had was with lots of archers and mages. I hold the enemies near the mountains where the camp is. I started escaping soon and it worked- I made it to the door, but of course it was locked (I think this makes a lot of people very angry) and Konrad died before the other door.
scott
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Post by scott »

Commodore wrote:How can you do this so easily? I had problems with previous missions too but I managed to solve those. Everyone's telling how easy it all is! I'm not stupid or anything. I have maths almost A and physics A in school. I don't play a lot of computer games though. I use the computer for art and other stuff. I'm not a dumbuser either because I can use Linux (I use Windows currently cause my family uses it).

The first try I had was with lots of archers and mages. I hold the enemies near the mountains where the camp is. I started escaping soon and it worked- I made it to the door, but of course it was locked (I think this makes a lot of people very angry) and Konrad died before the other door.

Code: Select all

		[message]
		role=Rider
		message= _ "Sir, I should like to scout out the path ahead. It would be disaster for us to find these doors sealed, leaving us as hunting fodder for the gathering horde."
		[/message]
I am now convinced people don't read the long-winded dialog. Oh well...
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
Commodore
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Post by Commodore »

scott wrote:
Commodore wrote:How can you do this so easily? I had problems with previous missions too but I managed to solve those. Everyone's telling how easy it all is! I'm not stupid or anything. I have maths almost A and physics A in school. I don't play a lot of computer games though. I use the computer for art and other stuff. I'm not a dumbuser either because I can use Linux (I use Windows currently cause my family uses it).

The first try I had was with lots of archers and mages. I hold the enemies near the mountains where the camp is. I started escaping soon and it worked- I made it to the door, but of course it was locked (I think this makes a lot of people very angry) and Konrad died before the other door.

Code: Select all

		[message]
		role=Rider
		message= _ "Sir, I should like to scout out the path ahead. It would be disaster for us to find these doors sealed, leaving us as hunting fodder for the gathering horde."
		[/message]
I am now convinced people don't read the long-winded dialog. Oh well...
It's been days from this post, but I still don't understand what do you mean?
Moroder
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Post by Moroder »

I was about to tell what to do, but it's better to let you try. Do as the dialog says. I usually recruit 5 or 6 Riders to "scout" around while the group runs to the doors. Usually the riders' fate is certain, the death.

That's a great and challenging scenario. Loved it.
Religion is nothing. I'm all about lifestyle. Mine is Christ, and I'll always respect yours. :wink:
scott
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Post by scott »

Commodore wrote: It's been days from this post, but I still don't understand what do you mean?
It seems like you were frustrated by Konrad not being able to enter the dwarven kingdom through the main door. However, the scenario dialog suggests that you use a scout to discover which door is the correct one early on so you don't need to guess. This change is not present in the 1.0 version, rather it exists in version 1.1+ (In 1.0, the cave entrance is always correct, and in 1.1+, the true location changes between the gate entrance and the cave entrance).

By the way, do people like these in-game hints? I always have misgivings about telling people how to play a scenario. I feel like players should try to discover successful strategies for themselves (as part of the fun) or use the player community for help and tips. The hints are supposed to avert frustration, but I am not sure how far is too far.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
quartex
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Post by quartex »

Perhaps the added hints should just be on easy difficulty. Even with the hints I'm convinced that some players just skip through the dialogue, so there's nothing you can do to guide them.
Commodore
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Post by Commodore »

I read the dialogue in the beginning of the level but I didn't see anyone saying I have to scout. I made it through though. I recruited lots and lots of archers who just kept the orcs fighting with them while the three faggots were escaping.
pjr

Post by pjr »

Commodore: You should receive either an Elvish scout or a horseman from your recall list at the start, who volunteers to scout ahead. (But this won't happen if you have no mounted units to recall.)

Scott: I find the opening dialogue useful. It's not so much a hint for beginners as a warning that there may be a surprise ahead. Incidentally, you might want to place the main entrance on a hill, not a mountain. Having no scouts to recall, I got a paladin, who arrived outside the entrance but couldn't move on to it.
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Xandria
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Post by Xandria »

Ah. So having bought exactly one scout over the course of the campaign was a good idea then :)
He's good for more than scouting though - half the army of the blue orc ran after the mounted elf, but of course, they ate dust. Orcs don't wear Nike after all.

One thing I don't get: you don't have to run - with the amount of money and power on the recall list you have you can easily defeat all orc leaders by turn twelve, even without load-save. There are many woods, after all, and on the snow plains, knights ride any opposition down.

I searched the whole map...
Where is the easter egg? O.o well. Perhaps not the whole, but visited all forts, killed all leaders, killed the Cuttlefish, and was in all four corners of the map, flagged all villages :roll: still no special item :cry:
The fight against human stupidity is endless, but we must never give it up.
- Jan Werich
zol
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Joined: July 12th, 2006, 4:31 am

Post by zol »

Do you mind if I not follow the form? Unless you are doing some data analysis only the points that are noticed should matter to give you a feel for what people think.

medium, 1.1.7

Easy, once you resign yourself to sacrificing units to make it so.
I've made no attempt to kill the leaders.

A strange little interlude, there didn't seem to be anything to do but drop decoys and run.

Possibly not the ideal place to try and add historic gravity as it wasn't useable as a motive within the scenario, but I did like the initial dialogue in which Konrad accepts advice although it doesn't please him.
finite, infinite, definite
fyo
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Joined: September 7th, 2006, 9:56 am

Post by fyo »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
medium (1.1.11 and 1.0)
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Another good, well-integrated scenario. Definitely one of the better ones.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Timing the run with Konrad. Not falling for the temptation of splitting your troops.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Really good the way it is. I'm not sure why "Skippy" is worried that not having an outlaw type unit would propose any kind of problem. Maybe because you wouldn't get Uncle's advice? Well, I only got Uncle on the same turn I completed the scenario (on turn 9, btw) - I almost forgot going for him. No, scouting the two entrances (which is now suggested through dialog) with an elven scout or the like is much easier.

I go for the main entrance first, since "straight up the middle" is the route I take with Konrad regardless and easily make the mine doors on the right before Konrad would have to change directions. I went directly for the main doors from the get-go with Konrad (2 turns of recalling units), assisted by a knight, a grand knight and delfador. Their job is just to absorb the first attack and then retreat to the main army, allowing Konrad to run through without being swarmed.

One minor quibble: If you run a unit past the lake, the monster reveals itself at the end of the move. However, if you take one step at a time, it reveals itself when your unit is on the first hex adjacent to the lake. This allows you to prevent getting attacked (if you have more moves left). It seems wrong that the monster doesn't reveal itself right away, regardless of how you move your unit.
sawall
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Joined: January 17th, 2007, 5:36 am

Post by sawall »

(1) Medium
(2) 6
(3) Fairly clear.
(4) I liked the little touches with the outlaw when I played through my second time. It wasn't necessary for me to figure out what to do the first time.
(5) Keeping my advanced units alive.
(6) 4
(7) I would make killing all the orc leaders a valid winning condition. I fought a pitched battle with them, killed the last one at turn 20 only to discover that I still lost. The time pressure doesn't make a lot of sense in the context of the story if you are able to kill all the leaders. Restarting from turn 16 resulted in a win since I didn't use Konrad much in my last fight anyway, and I just ran him over to the portal to wait until the rest of my guys cleaned up.
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Mist
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Post by Mist »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
medium 1.3.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good one, few nice touches (dwarven pillars)

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Performing a coordinated delay action. No other problems as outrider reached main doors around turn 5 and water monster performed suicide by going ashore after heavily wounded orc

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7. One of the few that requires tactical coordination if you intend to play along the script (rather than simply butcher everything in the area)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make the Uncle appear in random village, scrap the neccesity of scouting main doors after you find him.
cph
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Post by cph »

1) Medium; 1.2.4
2) 5
3) Clear
4) Fine
5) The trolls that are ahead of you are tricky, as you don't get much choice but to run headlong up the map & meet them where you meet them. Also keeping the infantry out of the clutches of the orcs behind.
6) 7 - interesting idea & tricky tactics screening Konrad and Delfador so they can race safely to the Doors.
7) -
8 ) start gold ~1200
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