Halfling race
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Duke Guillermo
- Posts: 127
- Joined: October 25th, 2005, 9:32 pm
You can call them hobbits, though. Tolkien was the first to use a 'v' when spelling dwarves (formerly dwarfs) yet people are allowed to use this spelling. The current usage of the term Orc was also invented by Tolkien and numerous titles use the term. (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc) Therefore, one can use the term hobbit as well. Worst comes to worst, and this would never ever happen is someone representing the books contacts you and you have to change the name to halflings.
In summation, you're wrong.
The word 'Hobbit' is a trademark owned by the Tolkien estate, though, so I would be careful to use it. According to the halfling article on WikiPedia, TSR was threatened with legal action for the use of the term Hobbit in D&D, and so they changed it to halfling.
So let's just stick with halfling
So let's just stick with halfling
It was published in the fifties; therefore, it's still under copyright. (Pretty much everything published in the Western world after about 1940 is still under copyright, unless the copyright holder expressly released it.) Additionally, Tolkein didn't die until the seventies, so under modern copyright law you're looking at the middle of the century, unless something changes.catwhowalksbyhimself wrote:I am also very certain that LOTR is no longer under copywrite.
However, copyright applies to a specific expression, not to an idea, so having a race of short people is absolutely fine. An individual word (e.g., "hobbit") would also be very hard to defend with copyright, but trademark is another matter, so to be safe call them halflings. To be safe in terms of copyright, don't use specific story elements from Tolkein's books. For instance, don't have an eleventy-first birthday party at the beginning of a campaign, don't have your halfling character stumble upon a ring of power that makes him invisible, and so forth. Absolutely don't copy specific wording from sentences in the books.
I agree that a halfling race would be underpowered in MP and so belongs in a campaign. Which landmass they belong on is an interesting question, but my gut instinct says Old Continent.
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catwhowalksbyhimself
- Posts: 411
- Joined: January 23rd, 2006, 8:28 am
Umm..Do you need to respond to something that I already responded to? I already confirmed that this is the case and posted so earlier, the last post of page 2, as a matter of fact. If I'm wrong, fine I'll admit it and I did, but I don't need to have mistakes that I've already admitted to dragged up and argued against again.
This thread about a halfling faction and its discussion (not the first one) concerning copyrights is interesting, but it would be good to begin thinking about how to put it in game.
What do hobbits (halflings) have? They are pacific, at least in Tolkien's book. They would have high defense in hills, because they live in there. But what are their favorite weapons? They are not very mighty. They can't have mounted units, etc... So I think it won't be easy to put it in game. Maybe it would be only for a Tolkien-based campaign. Thing is I'm afraid there are some copyrights on it. Or a Tolkien-based era, with a "Sauron faction" with orcs, goblins (most units are already included) and a "good faction" or I don't know how to call it where you would add the halflings.
What do hobbits (halflings) have? They are pacific, at least in Tolkien's book. They would have high defense in hills, because they live in there. But what are their favorite weapons? They are not very mighty. They can't have mounted units, etc... So I think it won't be easy to put it in game. Maybe it would be only for a Tolkien-based campaign. Thing is I'm afraid there are some copyrights on it. Or a Tolkien-based era, with a "Sauron faction" with orcs, goblins (most units are already included) and a "good faction" or I don't know how to call it where you would add the halflings.
"There are two kind of campaign strategies : the good and the bad ones. The good ones almost always fail because of unforeseen consequences that make the bad ones succeed." -- Napoleon
I'm not sure that they should have an entire faction for themselves. They could be part of a human faction. Or perhaps together with gnomes (or whatever they will be called) if that race gets made.
While Wesnoth generally uses the Tolkien stereotypes for the other races I don't think we necessarily have to do that here. We could come up with something new that helps define their place in wesnoth. Like they could be a race of sailors, nomads, traders etc.
Some ideas:
For mounts they could use ponies and/or big dogs, or some other imaginary creature. Or perhaps eagles...
Most units should have a ranged attack (sling), even melee units.
They should be generally weak in melee, but have good resistance against magical damage types (fire, cold or whatever they get changed into)
Their units should on average be less powerful than other races', and the unit cost should be low to reflect that.
While Wesnoth generally uses the Tolkien stereotypes for the other races I don't think we necessarily have to do that here. We could come up with something new that helps define their place in wesnoth. Like they could be a race of sailors, nomads, traders etc.
Some ideas:
For mounts they could use ponies and/or big dogs, or some other imaginary creature. Or perhaps eagles...
Most units should have a ranged attack (sling), even melee units.
They should be generally weak in melee, but have good resistance against magical damage types (fire, cold or whatever they get changed into)
Their units should on average be less powerful than other races', and the unit cost should be low to reflect that.
reply
LOTR COPYRIGHT ISSUES
By the way i looked into the official legal page made by Tolkien enterprises, (im at school now ill give you the exact text later)
Basicly it said that as a technical answer to the question of is it legal to make freeware of their copyrighted materail. Here is what they said as much as word for word as i can,
The technical answer is no. Although, dozens of popular freeware games with LOTR basis have been made, with no legal problems. So as long as you are not making money, you should be safe.
The answer to me seemed to be a yes and no on their part, i think what they try to say is its technically illegal, but they dont care.
By the way i looked into the official legal page made by Tolkien enterprises, (im at school now ill give you the exact text later)
Basicly it said that as a technical answer to the question of is it legal to make freeware of their copyrighted materail. Here is what they said as much as word for word as i can,
The technical answer is no. Although, dozens of popular freeware games with LOTR basis have been made, with no legal problems. So as long as you are not making money, you should be safe.
The answer to me seemed to be a yes and no on their part, i think what they try to say is its technically illegal, but they dont care.
Creator of 120+ units Lord of the Rings era and campaign now outdated & lost.
Creator of WWII Battleground Europe mod with 120+ units most with custom wml and animations. Every variable is mathematically derived based on WWII stats such as historical cost & mm armour.
Creator of WWII Battleground Europe mod with 120+ units most with custom wml and animations. Every variable is mathematically derived based on WWII stats such as historical cost & mm armour.
Copyright :
that's true, but anyway if we go into Rune's proposal we don't need to call them hobbits anymore.
On topic:
If we don't make it like in LOTR, they could be a good solution for the Knalgan alliance. In LOTR, anyway, they are allied with dwarves. They can also have their own faction.
If we do make it like LOTR, than it would have to be in a campaign or in a special era. And they would be cheap units. Another solution to make them balanced is high HP and defense, but bad attack. The kind of unit you use to protect level up units with few HP or few melee.
that's true, but anyway if we go into Rune's proposal we don't need to call them hobbits anymore.
On topic:
If we don't make it like in LOTR, they could be a good solution for the Knalgan alliance. In LOTR, anyway, they are allied with dwarves. They can also have their own faction.
If we do make it like LOTR, than it would have to be in a campaign or in a special era. And they would be cheap units. Another solution to make them balanced is high HP and defense, but bad attack. The kind of unit you use to protect level up units with few HP or few melee.
"There are two kind of campaign strategies : the good and the bad ones. The good ones almost always fail because of unforeseen consequences that make the bad ones succeed." -- Napoleon
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catwhowalksbyhimself
- Posts: 411
- Joined: January 23rd, 2006, 8:28 am
I would model it more on D&D and other fantasy versions.
In those, halflings are crafty, stealthy folk known for robbing you blind as soon as you back is turned. They aren't very big or strong, but they are stealthy and very fast. They are also experts with the sling and bow. Usually more the former than the latter.
Just like all the elvish units have a ranged bow attack, all halfling units should have a ranged sling attack. Also, their foot units should all be faster than most foot units with bonus's in hills, as has already been suggested. They would also be good at all other terrain but water. (Halflings don't do well in water at all)
Since they are mostly down-to earth folks, they shouldn't be found having magical type soldiers. I can see an Herbalist as a healer which upgrades to a DR. and a Medic.
Footsoldier units should be hit and run types, able to make a hit, survive one attack, and run away for healing. Backstabbing is a must for all melee units.
Calvary units should be few and fairly week. There aren't many horses small enough to carry them and they aren't very good with horses anyways.
Hobbits also seem to be fairly resiliant to poison and such, so some kind of immunity migh be nice.
In spite of their rogue-like abilities, I would make them Neutral rather than chaotic. Seems to fit better.
Because of their lesser tie to nature and growing things, I can see them using tamed animals in their armies. Might provide more of a unit variety and still keep them as simple folk rather than hardened warriors.
In those, halflings are crafty, stealthy folk known for robbing you blind as soon as you back is turned. They aren't very big or strong, but they are stealthy and very fast. They are also experts with the sling and bow. Usually more the former than the latter.
Just like all the elvish units have a ranged bow attack, all halfling units should have a ranged sling attack. Also, their foot units should all be faster than most foot units with bonus's in hills, as has already been suggested. They would also be good at all other terrain but water. (Halflings don't do well in water at all)
Since they are mostly down-to earth folks, they shouldn't be found having magical type soldiers. I can see an Herbalist as a healer which upgrades to a DR. and a Medic.
Footsoldier units should be hit and run types, able to make a hit, survive one attack, and run away for healing. Backstabbing is a must for all melee units.
Calvary units should be few and fairly week. There aren't many horses small enough to carry them and they aren't very good with horses anyways.
Hobbits also seem to be fairly resiliant to poison and such, so some kind of immunity migh be nice.
In spite of their rogue-like abilities, I would make them Neutral rather than chaotic. Seems to fit better.
Because of their lesser tie to nature and growing things, I can see them using tamed animals in their armies. Might provide more of a unit variety and still keep them as simple folk rather than hardened warriors.
I think that would be good... they can't be a powerful race, but I remember certain game: Age of Wonders (better 1 than 2). There you can play with halflings (hobbits, halflings, medianos, kenders or the thing you prefer to call them), and have a good develoment... also, they includes pony riders, centaurs, hawk/eagle rider, "honderos", and something like assasains (or Sam going upstairs). In order to Tolkien and Warhammer, them are good (moderatly) as archers and cookers...
You can pick up some ideas from this
You can pick up some ideas from this
Ignacio Dadoverde Elestel
Nada es lo que parece, y lo que parece nada es...
Always there's more you can't see than you can...
Spanish translator of UTBS, TB, SPMPP
Nada es lo que parece, y lo que parece nada es...
Always there's more you can't see than you can...
Spanish translator of UTBS, TB, SPMPP
Ah, now that you mention cooking... I really think they should have a Chef unit. Leadership would be a good ability to represent his effect on the morale of nearby halfling units. Could branch into a healer type.
He would have two attacks:
Meat Cleaver: Melee/Slashing
Scalding Soup: Ranged/Fire (okay, perhaps this one is a bit silly)
Suggested tree (names need to be changed):
He would have two attacks:
Meat Cleaver: Melee/Slashing
Scalding Soup: Ranged/Fire (okay, perhaps this one is a bit silly)
Suggested tree (names need to be changed):
Code: Select all
Chef -> Master Chef -> Iron Chef
-> Healing Chef (looses leadership)
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Dragon of Flame
- Posts: 33
- Joined: July 18th, 2005, 5:56 pm
- Location: U.S.
