The high elves

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Temuchin Khan
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

Preliminary ideas for unit names:

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High Elf Spearfey -> High Elf Piercer -> High Elf Skewer
                                      -> High Elf Aegis (="Shieldsman")

High Elf Arrowfey -> High Elf Deadshot -> High Elf Bowmaster

High Elf Horsemount -> High Elf Knight -> High Elf Grand Knight

High Elf Mounted Archer -> High Elf Mounted Deadshot -> High Elf Mounted Bowmaster

High Elf Sorceress -> High Elf Enchantress -> High Elf Sylph -- same as ever
Steelclad Brian
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Post by Steelclad Brian »

I'm not sure the word fey is a good one to be using in the context of the High Elves, especially when they actually have fairy-like units and they're supposed to stand in contrast with their woodland cousins.

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High Elf Defender -> High Elf Spearwarden -> High Elf Warmaster
                                          -> High Elf Aegis

High Elf Bowman -> High Elf Deadshot -> High Elf Bowmaster

High Elf Charger -> High Elf Knight -> High Elf Grand Knight

High Elf Horse Archer -> High Elf Mounted Deadshot -> High Elf Mounted Bowmaster

High Elf Sorceress -> High Elf Enchantress -> High Elf Sylph -- same as ever
If you really wanted to come up with more exotic names though, you might want to create a backstory first and names second, since that lets you latch onto themes for the unit names.

I don't think adding "Mounted x" is really a solution for those units unless they are explicitly supposed to just be mounted variations of the foot units. Better to come up with, for example, a specific role those mounted archers play in warfare and name them accordingly.
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Temuchin Khan
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

Steelclad Brian wrote:If you really wanted to come up with more exotic names though, you might want to create a backstory first and names second, since that lets you latch onto themes for the unit names.
No, I think your new names are good.
Steelclad Brian wrote:I don't think adding "Mounted x" is really a solution for those units unless they are explicitly supposed to just be mounted variations of the foot units. Better to come up with, for example, a specific role those mounted archers play in warfare and name them accordingly.
True, but we'd need some input from Jetryl on that. What specific role did Jetryl intend the line of mounted archers to play?
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Temuchin Khan
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

Another set of names for High Elf units, many of them not previously used in Wesnoth factions. I have used a number of 18/19 century unit names, but I think it underlines the aristocratic character of the High Elves. I have also used one Late Roman unit name.

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High Elf Landsknecht -> High Elf Schiltron -> High Elf Myrmidon
                                           -> High Elf Aegis

High Elf Yeoman -> High Elf Deadshot -> High Elf Jaegar

High Elf Charger -> High Elf Lancer -> High Elf Cataphract

High Elf Horsebow -> High Elf Hussar -> High Elf Chasseur

High Elf Sorceress -> High Elf Enchantress -> High Elf Sylph
EDIT: New names for the infantry line and the level 3 archer.
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Jetrel
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Post by Jetrel »

Temuchin - you have a knack for history, and so I'm running this by you to see if you can scrounge any other names up.

I think I'd like to start the level-1 lines with relatively benign names, such as spearman, archer, etc. Some of the names you have come up with for higher-level units are quite nice, others are too clearly related to a certain historic group.


The ones I don't like are:
Landsknecht (sounds too german)
Hussar (history is alright (bad, but most historical soldiers were coarse, so not relatively so), imagery is great, but the sound of the word doesn't evoke it)
Myrmidon (too greek)
Deadeye (too ... uhm... uh)

The aristocratic nature of these guys, or really wesnothian elves altogether is very much unlike either greek aristocracy or french aristocracy, to name two very different examples. For example, the reason I don't like myrmidons has a lot to do with the attitude of the historical/mythical group by that name, and the culture they carried with them.

The act of fighting wearing nothing but your helm, greaves, and weaponry (e.g. with Mars and his two lieutenants flopping back and forth in the open air) carries a certain strong undercurrent of vanity about your body. This is something diametrically opposed to the nature of the high elves; vanity and pride are reserved for human beings, who have the wonderful gift of myopia. The elves, who are quite arguably superior beings to mankind, have seen too much and too far to have any delusions of grandeur. Stoic, realistic, and terrifying when roused to anger, but never proud, never petty, and never, ever, vain. Even their confidence in their own strength is checked by a strong tendency towards wariness.

Of the names I like, Aegis is very nice; anything more in this vein would be welcome. Yeoman also was something I'd strongly been considering myself, and I'm glad you like it.

The roman word Evocati is interesting, and I might like to use it some where. If you can think up any other words please do.

I would also like to gather together any words you can find like "Valkyrie," words of a similar nature.

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High Elf Spearman -> High Elf Pikemen -> High Elf Murnet
                                        -> High Elf Schiltron -> High Elf Aegis

High Elf Archer -> High Elf Yeoman -> High Elf Jaegar

High Elf Charger -> High Elf Cornet -> High Elf Cataphract

High Elf Horsebow -> High Elf Chasseur -> High Elf Brigadier

High Elf Sorceress -> High Elf Enchantress -> High Elf Sylph 
Steelclad Brian
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Post by Steelclad Brian »

I've been following this race thread with great interest ever since I saw the art, so I hope you don't mind if I throw in my two cents on a few proposed names.

Murnet, Schiltron -> In a nutshell, I have no idea what these words mean, and I strongly suspect most players won't either. While that isn't a huge problem with the high level units (so people dont have to sit around asking their teammate to recruit 4 schiltrons and a murnet). If you showed me these words out of context, I'd probably think they were the names of important European directors of film.

Murnet you can probably get away with since an exotic name for a third level unit is not only okay, it's appropriate. But if I understand your list right Schiltrons are the first level 2 appearance of a shield-bearing spear unit, and having a branch choice between "Pikeman" and "Schiltron" might be a bit strange. Perhaps the pragmatic unit-naming practice could be extended between the two - a choice between "Pikeman" and "Shieldbearer" or "Shieldspear" for example.

Jaegar -> When I see this, all that comes to mind is the german word for Hunter (Jaeger). If you follow that logic then the 3rd level unit is simply named "Hunter", which seems a rather weakly worded choice for the final unit in a chain. You could of course be referring to some historical Jaegars which were fearsome warriors, but without historical context I just see a name that sounds like it should be a level 1 peasant unit.

Cataphract -> I love this. I don't even remember what Cataphracts are, though I've heard the word, but I don't think you even need to because the word has such a wonderful sound to it. I think part of that is the brain's association between words like Catalyst and Cataclysm, not to mention the destructive implications of the sound "phract".
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Temuchin Khan
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

Steelclad Brian wrote:if I understand your list right Schiltrons are the first level 2 appearance of a shield-bearing spear unit, and having a branch choice between "Pikeman" and "Schiltron" might be a bit strange.
A Schiltron was a type of medieval Scottish pikeman.
Steelclad Brian wrote: Jaegar -> When I see this, all that comes to mind is the german word for Hunter (Jaeger). If you follow that logic then the 3rd level unit is simply named "Hunter", which seems a rather weakly worded choice for the final unit in a chain. You could of course be referring to some historical Jaegars which were fearsome warriors, but without historical context I just see a name that sounds like it should be a level 1 peasant unit.
In the 18/19 centuries, the Austrian army had infantry units known as Jaegars.
Steelclad Brian wrote: Cataphract -> I love this. I don't even remember what Cataphracts are, though I've heard the word, but I don't think you even need to because the word has such a wonderful sound to it. I think part of that is the brain's association between words like Catalyst and Cataclysm, not to mention the destructive implications of the sound "phract".
"Cataphract" was the Latin word for heavy cavalry.
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Ranger M
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Post by Ranger M »

you probably heard about cataphract from age of empires. It was the best heavy horse unit.
Disto
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Post by Disto »

Jetryl wrote:Uhm, no I don't. What I can do, if you're planning on forging some UMC featuring these guys, is give you access to the graphics that I have done.

:? If I remember, I'll get around to doing that.
Can you give me the graphics?
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Disto
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Post by Disto »

Cataphracts were used by the Byzantines weren't they?
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Cuyo Quiz
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Post by Cuyo Quiz »

I think they were in use since Persia. Don't know when Rome assimilated their own version of them.
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Steelclad Brian
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Post by Steelclad Brian »

Well I wasn't aware that the Persians had access to such advanced technology:
http://www.kerensky.tierranet.com/btech ... hract.html
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Cuyo Quiz
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Post by Cuyo Quiz »

Oh yeah, and the light cavalry was something like this.

http://www.kerensky.tierranet.com/btech ... raven.html

But seriously, lets re-rail this thread under the banner of Temuchin Khan.
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Temuchin Khan
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

Cuyo Quiz wrote:I think they were in use since Persia. Don't know when Rome assimilated their own version of them.
It was sometime in the late third/early fourth century. Some say Emperor Aurelian started the trend, others that Constantine saw the usefulness of a cavalry force. After Valens was defeated by the Visigoths at Adrianople, though, the Roman Empire rebuilt its army with a much larger cavalry contingent, which became the norm for the rest of the Empire's history, especially in the East.
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Post by Keelta MacRonan »

And Schiltrons were not just any Scottish pike/spearmen. William Wallace and Robert the Bruce used the them. They were very similar to the Spanish Tercios which were like the Macedonian Phalanx.
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