What seperates the best players from the newbies?
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What seperates the best players from the newbies?
I read this in the Faction Observations thread, and have been wondering, what seperates a really good player from a newbie or intermediate player? Is it good tactical skills, knowing when to attack and not to attack, overall strategic plan, effective countering or what? After a certain point, is it just intuition about what the right move is or being able to feel out the random number generator? I consider myself a pretty good player and have been playing on and off since 0.8x, but I'm wondering what people think makes a good player.
Noy wrote:What you might not realize is that most of us play a lot of Wesnoth, and since the community is quite small, the best players tend to gravitate towards each other. Very very very rarely are new players able to compete against experts. Most of the time they just get splattered as experts leverage their knowledge of the game to crush them. Thats even more so against Undead which are likely one of the most difficult factions to play with... which leads me and others to be all the more skeptical about your claim that you will give us an education.use less wrote: And I just love it when people judge by the number of the posts or date registration. So cute.
I'm looking forward meeting you and all of those i-know-how-to-beat-ya-n00b players.
I'll tell you one thing that makes a noob: no sense of terrain or purpose of units. Example: Using a Dwarvish Guardsman on Grassland to attack a Fencer on Castle.
Another thing that makes a noob player: no sense of alignment, abilities, or CTK. Example: Using chaotic Wolf Riders with low hp to attack lawful Spearmen during the day.
One thing that makes a pro player: effective use of ZoC.
There's shittons more, but it would be a ginormous post...
Another thing that makes a noob player: no sense of alignment, abilities, or CTK. Example: Using chaotic Wolf Riders with low hp to attack lawful Spearmen during the day.
One thing that makes a pro player: effective use of ZoC.
There's shittons more, but it would be a ginormous post...
- Dragonking
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AI tactic, eh?Inuyasha wrote:My favorite pet peev is the noobs who attack their opponents with an army of scouts.JW wrote:I'll tell you one thing that makes a noob: no sense of terrain or purpose of units.
Most bad players don't understand that this game is not only about attacking enemy... sometimes better wait for good conditions, retreat and regroup or set up a trap...
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Good players(I am not very good, but I like it )should look at give care to all this points:
Resistance
Defense
schedules
movement(!)
healing(villages AND units)
Get every XP point you can get without losses(even to highest level units)
This seems easy but it isn´t. Don´t forget to be perfect at all....
Resistance
Defense
schedules
movement(!)
healing(villages AND units)
Get every XP point you can get without losses(even to highest level units)
This seems easy but it isn´t. Don´t forget to be perfect at all....
First read, then think. Read again, think again. And then post!
I agree with most of these points... but there is one that I think really sets some people apart. I think there is a level that expert players reach where separation of skill doesn't really produce anymore noticible gain. The players know that luck will decide the outcome of the battle. I think the best players out there gain the ability of foresight... to understand the implications of each of their moves, and how they affect the battlefield. They can predict the probable outcome of the next turn, and play accordingly. Thats the mark of an expert.
I suspect having one foot in the past is the best way to understand the present.
Don Hewitt.
Don Hewitt.
my taking is launching 4 waves and usually sitting for 5 turns accumulating my gold so i can kill them off while they struggle with the the first 4 waves
I am Oreb, Lord of the Darthien
Give your comments to the World of Orbivm
Give your comments to the World of Orbivm
try a battle line of drake gliders with 30% xp.Inuyasha wrote:My favorite pet peev is the noobs who attack their opponents with an army of scouts.JW wrote:I'll tell you one thing that makes a noob: no sense of terrain or purpose of units.
By all means, post away when you have the time.JW wrote: There's shittons more, but it would be a ginormous post...
The fool made the elf oponent so powerful I had no chance of winning.
THe most important hin gis knowing to take risks.
Oh no look out its a ray gun.
You should move to avoid the rays
the rays are coming out of the gun
if you are hit by the rays
you will be shot by the rays
the rays are fast so you should be fast to
can you win against the fast rays from the gun?
You should move to avoid the rays
the rays are coming out of the gun
if you are hit by the rays
you will be shot by the rays
the rays are fast so you should be fast to
can you win against the fast rays from the gun?
One thing I have noticed that appears to mark the lass able players is a tendency to excessive aggression. I could well be wrong about this, but it appears that some players feel compelled to attack with as many units as possible each turn.
This leads to slightly ridiculous situations. I remember at one point having three Trolls comfortably set up in mountains and being repeatedly attacked from plains by seemingly scuicidal elvish fighters. (needless to say, no elves survived and I came out of the fight with two Troll Warriors and a Rocklobber. )
It seems that rather then basing their tactics around such things as terrain and the day/night cycle, some newbies simply apply their favorite tactics regardless.
So a naturally defensive newbie will set up their lines wherever they wish, rather then where the terrain is suitable.
One the other hand, a naturally aggressive newbie will attack whatever enemy units are in range whenever they are in range, rather then setting up favorable cricumstances beforehand (i.e. waiting for day/night or consolidating reinforcements to gain a numeric advantage) or targeting isolated or damaged units.
This is only from my observations. So it could be totally incorrect.
I would be interested to know, do other people notice this sort of thing as well?
This leads to slightly ridiculous situations. I remember at one point having three Trolls comfortably set up in mountains and being repeatedly attacked from plains by seemingly scuicidal elvish fighters. (needless to say, no elves survived and I came out of the fight with two Troll Warriors and a Rocklobber. )
It seems that rather then basing their tactics around such things as terrain and the day/night cycle, some newbies simply apply their favorite tactics regardless.
So a naturally defensive newbie will set up their lines wherever they wish, rather then where the terrain is suitable.
One the other hand, a naturally aggressive newbie will attack whatever enemy units are in range whenever they are in range, rather then setting up favorable cricumstances beforehand (i.e. waiting for day/night or consolidating reinforcements to gain a numeric advantage) or targeting isolated or damaged units.
This is only from my observations. So it could be totally incorrect.
I would be interested to know, do other people notice this sort of thing as well?
That's the mark of an expert in any field I would argue.Noy wrote:The [expert] players know that luck will decide the outcome of the battle. I think the best players out there gain the ability of foresight... to understand the implications of each of their moves, and how they affect the battlefield. They can predict the probable outcome of the next turn, and play accordingly. Thats the mark of an expert.
I think he wants to know specific tactics that experts and noobs use to gain a better understanding of not only the game, but of the people replying. =)
An expert will:Inuyasha wrote:By all means, post away when you have the time.JW wrote: There's shittons more, but it would be a ginormous post...
1) Recruit accordingly to best
-a) counter the enemy faction (e.g. pierce units for drakes, fire for undead)
-b) counter specific units on the field (e.g. Elvish Archer v. Cavalryman)
-c) take advantage of terrain (both defense and movement)
-d) obtain and hold villages quickly
2) Use all of these to his/er advantage:
-a) time of day
-b) resistancies
-c) special abilities (e.g. leadership, poison)
-d) terrain
-e) quality OR quantity of units (depending on situation)
-f) Zone of Control
-g) advance heal
-h) high % attacks
3) Avoid:
-a) fighting to an opponents strength (if possible)
-b) situations where one bad combat while turn the tide of the game (if possible)
-c) recruiting only one type of unit
And that's all I can think of right now. I'm hungry. =)
- Dragonking
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Also chosing where to recruit is important thing, this seems to counts in 'd', but can be valid also in death-or-victory situations.JW wrote:1) Recruit accordingly to best
-a) counter the enemy faction (e.g. pierce units for drakes, fire for undead)
-b) counter specific units on the field (e.g. Elvish Archer v. Cavalryman)
-c) take advantage of terrain (both defense and movement)
-d) obtain and hold villages quickly
-i) upkeep and lvl0 unitsJW wrote: 2) Use all of these to his/er advantage:
-a) time of day
-b) resistancies
-c) special abilities (e.g. leadership, poison)
-d) terrain
-e) quality OR quantity of units (depending on situation)
-f) Zone of Control
-g) advance heal
-h) high % attacks
-j) how to build defence line from units with diffrent traits (resilient in most precious places etc..)
-d)attacking meele units with meele units and ranged units with ranged unitsJW wrote: 3) Avoid:
-a) fighting to an opponents strength (if possible)
-b) situations where one bad combat while turn the tide of the game (if possible)
-c) recruiting only one type of unit
-e)letting enemy chose battlefield
If I forgot about something please add it.
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Ive noticed that most bad players follow the examples of the french in the middle ages: They let me find terrain that I want, then just attack me when I'm ready for them.
like that time with the gliders..... and the other guy who attacked me with trolls in water when I was in the mountains and forest.
I'm overly agressive in MP, and don''t stop to consider my turns. if I took more than 30 seconds to think, I suspect I'd win the majority of my matches, rather than losing after gradually losing my units and being put on the defensive.
Anoithe rimportant thing is knowing how to countetr the enemy faction and units.
Especially th eberskerkers and ulserkers, wjhich in the hands of th emost people amount to:
mmm.... free xp.
like that time with the gliders..... and the other guy who attacked me with trolls in water when I was in the mountains and forest.
I'm overly agressive in MP, and don''t stop to consider my turns. if I took more than 30 seconds to think, I suspect I'd win the majority of my matches, rather than losing after gradually losing my units and being put on the defensive.
Anoithe rimportant thing is knowing how to countetr the enemy faction and units.
Especially th eberskerkers and ulserkers, wjhich in the hands of th emost people amount to:
mmm.... free xp.
Oh no look out its a ray gun.
You should move to avoid the rays
the rays are coming out of the gun
if you are hit by the rays
you will be shot by the rays
the rays are fast so you should be fast to
can you win against the fast rays from the gun?
You should move to avoid the rays
the rays are coming out of the gun
if you are hit by the rays
you will be shot by the rays
the rays are fast so you should be fast to
can you win against the fast rays from the gun?
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