Musing on character portraits

[telex4]

I really do prefer your portraits (I just dislike anime!). I see no problem with your redoing all the portraits in your style if you want to.

[Sithrandel]

That is my point

You and some others dislike anime but you were happy to play the game with that style.

I like anime, amongst other styles So I do see a problem with redoing all the portraits for Heir To The Throne.

What I fail to see if why when some would prefer the style not to be changed this is not taken as an opportunity to expand the range rather than change it.

Alternate styles for each campaign are not a realistic possibility as they would involve too much work on both programming and art fronts.

Alternate styles for different campaigns are far easier and I would say to be encouraged

It does seem silly to me to waste resource on changing art for Heir To The Throne when it could be used far more effectively for a new campaign.

There is a great opportunity here to expand wesnoth and simultaneously please both those who like the portraits and those who don't. A true win-win scenario... surely that should be embraced?

[Jetrel]

um, not that I really would contend either way about anime (being a fan of Naruto, myself), but

I think that most people would agree that the work I just spit out was anime. Many would consider it that without contest. The oversized eyes. The childlike proportions (big head, for example). The hair, the ridiculously extravagant hair. I mean, it ain't pink, but...


*sigh* The point I'm making is that the existing portraits are done in a very archaic style, not unlike the old show Lupin I(whateverth) or perhaps "Battlecruiser Yamato". I saw lupin, a few times, on Cartoon Network. It made Hanna-Barbera cartoons look like rembrants.

I don't like that style of anime. It's what gave anime a bad name. I like anime, but I would be embarrased to show the games current pictures to, say, my old man. The boobs on Li'sar are just too much. Too, unnatural. I mean, pull out an old --- ah, screw it

I would also assume (I could easily be wrong) that fmunoz did not put a lot of work into those. He's been doing a LOT of stuff. He also, incidentally, does the chapter screens in a similar style; except that after the extensive processing they go through, their colors look like the one's I'm using (and they lack enough detail by then that there no issue of matchup in that department).


yeach. I don't wanna [censored]. I just want to replace those stupid graphics with something better. Some of my stuff is a bit off, but I promise that I'll keep working on this set until it's been hammered into perfection.

[cedric]

it could be used far more effectively for a new campaign.

I concur. Jetryl, have you seen the following post where Circon says that he would need graphics for his campaign?

http://wesnoth.whitevine.net/forum/phpB ... .php?t=816

This would be really useful, and for you a good opportunity to use your own style for a whole campaign...
--
Cedric

[Jetrel]

it is worth noting for him, that I will be doing a portrait for the lich, at least, I think, when I get around to it.

Liches have dialogue in Heir to the Throne, as do Necromancers, White magi, mermen, thieves, elvish druids, elvish captains, human captains, and orcish captains.

Those form the second tier of graphics I am doing, the first tier being the four main characters.
If someone wants to use them for his scenario as well, sweet.
I don't really care.

I've told you what I'm doing.

[Circon]

Hmmm, I've missed this thread for a while. Let me drop some opinion bombs.

Your work will be considered anime, technically. However, I just don't feel that it belongs in the same category. Too detailed color shading and too much reality is what I can think of.
The drawings in "Heir to the Throne" are of one style, and you have another. It's nice, but somehow, it seems the near-opposite of what's in so far. The people seem somewhat... ghostlike, so I expect that any portraits drawn of lichs and suchlike would have a much better effect.
(I dread fmunoz' rendering of the necromancer. I can't get the image out of my head of Konrad dressed in black, with a strip of black material in front of his mouth, the huge blue square thing hanging down in front, and saying "Let us destroy these humans!" in a SC Wraith voice, while holding a staff looking like Delfador's with a 1337 grinning skull.)

[telex4]

What I fail to see if why when some would prefer the style not to be changed this is not taken as an opportunity to expand the range rather than change it.

If somebody wants to redo old images, even after having been asked to do new ones instead, why not just leave them to it and enjoy the new work?

Yes, it'd be great if Jetryl focused on making new images for the orc, undead and human campaigns, and hopefully Jetryl will do those in due time, but let's not attack people for doing what they want in the meantime.

[Jetrel]

word

[Sithrandel]

If somebody wants to redo old images, even after having been asked to do new ones instead, why not just leave them to it and enjoy the new work?

Simply because I feel that adding this particular artwork to Heir To The Throne would be a retrograde step. I would not enjoy it in that setting as I would see it as being less appropriate than what we have there already. I am not opposed to improvement, if someone were to redo the main characters in an extension of that style but produce better results, then I would happily enjoy the results

The point I am making is that using them in a different campaign could please everyone. Using them in the Heir To The Throne would disappoint some who like the current style and do not believe it needs to be changed.

Part of this does come down to the extension vs change debate which often seems to hit the forums. The desire to migrate wesnoth towards a hypothetical favourite game often surfaces (and lots of us have shown this, healer anyone ). Extending wesnoth is good. Changing styles etc because certain individuals don't like them seems wrong when they can co-exist quite happily and extend wesnoth in the process.


BTW for what it is worth, I wouldn't class the images as anime, but also say classification doesn't matter as much as how it looks

[turin]

What i have to say is that these new pictures probably look more like my art (for the the loyalist camapgaign) than the current ones. My pictures are not supposed to fit the current ones. However, i do not think that Jetryl's pictures will fit mine either.
I prefer the current pictures, except for Kalenz. Of course, to redo Kalenz fmunoz would probably have to do it, since he is the one who made all of the portraits in the first place.

he already made some lineart for a lich, and it looked cool.

Personally, i would prefer to have a few portraits that are well done than portraits for everyone that are not as well done.

[Dave]

Firstly, I have no problem with anyone redoing character portraits or any other aspects of the game to aim for something better. Especially if that's something they really want to do.

One of the philosophies of Wesnoth is that developers do things best when they enjoy doing them. Someone can say "you should really be using your effort here to do this and that instead" until they're blue in the face, but if you're enjoying what you're doing, and don't enjoy the other, then you're probably better off, and more productive, doing what you enjoy.

I would love for Jetryl to contribute his artistic skill to aspects of the game that could really use it -- sprites, storyline images, terrain images, and so forth. Hopefully he will feel the inspiration to do that sometime. If for now he wants to work on trying to improve character profiles, he's welcome to. It is Free software, after all.

Of course, we will not accept Jetryl's work into the distribution unless and until we are well and truly happy with it. Honestly, I think this Elven Lady is the first image I have seen that I like much at all.

The major problem with it is that she looks so glum. Yes, I know Wesnoth is about battles and fighting, not typically an activity that one looks extravagantly happy during, but really, we don't want everyone looking depressingly miserable.

The images of Li'sar drawn by Jetryl so far just don't look like an attractive woman. The current images might have awkward looking breasts, but at least she looks like a feisy, energetic, and attractive woman.

David

[Sithrandel]

Just in case anyone thought I was trying to coerce anyone into doing something they didn't want to. I wasn't, sorry if it came across that way. I agree you work best at things you enjoy

I was trying to find a smooth direction forwards to please all... though I was probably mad in that respect :-S

I agree with Dave's comments re the energetic look, but have to disagree about the breasts. They come in all shapes and sizes and thus look fine for an armoured figure

[Dave]

My comments weren't aimed at anyone in particular, I was just reminding everyone of a philosophy for the project -- I rarely aim comments at anyone in particular, unless they're being a real prat, but that's rarely needed round here

I actually wouldn't really comment on the breasts, except that my wife said that she doesn't like them

David

[telex4]

The major problem with it is that she looks so glum. Yes, I know Wesnoth is about battles and fighting, not typically an activity that one looks extravagantly happy during, but really, we don't want everyone looking depressingly miserable.

The images of Li'sar drawn by Jetryl so far just don't look like an attractive woman. The current images might have awkward looking breasts, but at least she looks like a feisy, energetic, and attractive woman.

I rather like the "glum" look myself, and I don't like games that make everyone attractive in a narrow sense Maybe if Jetryl finishes his set, we can just put it to a vote, and then have instructions on the wiki for anyone who wants to revert to the less popular set. In the meantime, let people get on with whatever they like doing!

[turin]

OK. i suspect these new images will win a vote, but i am not sure.

One artistic comment: the pictures jetryl is doing look like they are pencil drawings, not at all bright. it might be a good idea to saturate each color more. I know usually people tell me to saturate it less, but this looks like an exception.