Whoa... new HTTT portraits

martenzo · Post by **martenzo** » February 4th, 2005, 3:34 pm

I like Ashiviere's portrait, but all tho others have a little too ...umm...harmless and childish*. The clothes are a little too Final Fantasy. The main problem of Li'sar is her legs, they are a little out of proportion (short). Delfador Looks very harmless and also surprised about something and what's that figure on the top of his staff? Konrad seems a little too un-combat ready. Kalenz has kinda silly outfit, but his face is fine. All of them should have a more serious look.
* No offense Jetryl, the drawings are great, there are mostly only styling flaws.

Post by **turin** » February 4th, 2005, 10:00 pm

The legs won't be shown in the actual portrait, though. so the curent li'sar portrait is fine, IYHO?

Post by **quartex** » February 4th, 2005, 11:16 pm

I really like the full portrait of Li'sar, especially the detail on her white cloth and her sword scabbard. Was there some idea of showing full portraits in a Help section with info on campaign characters? I'd love to see the full portrait included somehow, it seems such a waste of Li'sar's better half.

Post by **Sangel** » February 4th, 2005, 11:36 pm

The full-size portrait of Li'sar is extremely cool - though I do agree, there is something odd about the legs - something about the proportions of the upper and lower legs.

I too would like to see support for larger images somewhere such as Help.

Post by **Jetrel** » February 5th, 2005, 1:07 am

Sangel wrote:The full-size portrait of Li'sar is extremely cool - though I do agree, there is something odd about the legs - something about the proportions of the upper and lower legs.

Yes, that is correct, and I see that mistake too. The cause was that I had drawn her left (stage directions here - what she would call her left) leg to be foreshortened - tilted at an angle to the "camera". If you cover her right leg, you will note that everything looks fine.

However, many people, including myself, verify proportion by doing a series of single comparisons of two things in the picture - the mistake I made was to draw her right leg the same size as the left, which it should not be.

There are also some significant problems with her neck, but again this has a lot to do with the unconventional pose I tried to use.

So, what does this all mean? Unless someone can come up with something better, using the same or better shading/coloring techniques I use (a collaboration between me and another artist who is better at proportion and pose - which are my two weakest points - than I am might serve to fulfill this), we will continue to use these pictures.

The funny thing is, these are almost at the level of commercial work (kalenz excepted, because his pic was a deliberate hack). Interestingly enough, commercial artists on major games sometimes get away with making worse mistakes of proportion than I do - I've attached a picture from a MAJOR commercial game - Ragnarok Online, which is extraordinarily popular in korea and japan, and has apparently even spawned it's own tv series.

Try and see if you can spot the egregious error in it:

Gafgarion · Post by **Gafgarion** » February 5th, 2005, 1:09 am

Jetryl wrote:Try and see if you can spot the egregious error in it:

Other than the thought of someone trying to fight while wearing a dress like that?

Post by **Quensul** » February 5th, 2005, 1:12 am

Jetryl wrote: Try and see if you can spot the egregious error in it:

You mean the spotlight that's apparently hidden behind the guy's left calf, or that the girl is either squatting, or has some funky horizontal portion to her leg (her foot placement is ~2 times as wide as her shoulders)?

Gafgarion · Post by **Gafgarion** » February 5th, 2005, 1:15 am

And what's with the guy's bent sword... I would never use a sword that bends at the hilt like that.

scott · Post by **scott** » February 5th, 2005, 1:54 am

He has Danny Pintauro's (the little kid from Who's the Boss) top body pasted onto Sagat's legs (tall and powerful). The chest is way too small for the legs.

Post by **Sangel** » February 5th, 2005, 2:23 am

Jetryl wrote:Yes, that is correct, and I see that mistake too. The cause was that I had drawn her left (stage directions here - what she would call her left) leg to be foreshortened - tilted at an angle to the "camera". If you cover her right leg, you will note that everything looks fine.

Covering her right leg (again, stage directions), I see that you're exactly right. There's also a minor problem with the neck, as you indicated.

These flaws certainly don't spoil the piece, and (as you've pointed out), many commercial games get away with far more in their artwork. It's a pity that we don't have more artists of your calibre working on the project - I can push a pixel or two, and am currently doing so, but this kind of work is far, far beyond my league.

Post by **ott** » February 5th, 2005, 9:50 am

While we are roughly discussing the non-sprite art, could someone take a look at tweaking the main screen image? Konrad's hand is too big. It hasn't really bothered me, but with most other art in the game being upgraded, the title screen perhaps also needs some revisions.

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » February 5th, 2005, 10:13 am

Jetryl wrote:Try and see if you can spot the egregious error in it:

The fact that the guy's legs are about 4 times as long as his torso?

Post by **Dave** » February 5th, 2005, 4:04 pm

Jetryl wrote: So, what does this all mean? Unless someone can come up with something better, using the same or better shading/coloring techniques I use (a collaboration between me and another artist who is better at proportion and pose - which are my two weakest points - than I am might serve to fulfill this), we will continue to use these pictures.

Absolutely. The images you have done blow away anyone else's attempts, so I think any criticisms that can be made of them are very very minor indeed.

David

Insinuator · Post by **Insinuator** » February 10th, 2005, 7:04 am

I'm certainly not an art critique, as I can barely draw stick figures, but I liked the old drawings far better. The seemed more classic somehow. The newer drawings seem artistically fine, aside from the piddling details people have pointed out, just totally un-Wesnoth. Of course this is Wesnoth from my point of view. The new drawings look "hip" and "cool". Not at all like the time Wesnoth is set in. I just can't picture the new Konrad as a leader.

The more cartoony style of the old portraits also resonated with me because it fit the style of the unit graphics. The unit graphics for Konrad, Kalenz, and Delfador look nothing like their new portraits, whereas the previous ones you could sense a resemblance both in appearance and style.

Elvish_Pillager · February 10th, 2005, 11:30 am

Insinuator wrote:I just can't picture the new Konrad as a leader.

AFAIK, most people couldn't picture the old "smiling Konrad" as a leader, including me.