Loyalists

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Amorphous
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Loyalists

Post by Amorphous » January 17th, 2015, 6:08 am

So my understanding about the current status of the Loyalist sprites is this: several updated and vastly improved bases have been more or less finished for over three years now, but, for want of animations, they haven't been implemented. In order to rectify this, I've been tinkering with some sprites for a few weeks, and Zero inspired me to get around to posting them. This forum could do with some more life. :)

What I've got right now isn't much. I did a few small edits (third sprite from left) on the Swordsman that Sleepwalker and Jetrel drew. Specific things were shifting his sword arm one pixel to our left and adding an outer rim to the helmet opening. If any of the art devs are around -- do you mind these changes? They're not major, but they bothered me enough to see about fixing them before going much further.

In addition, I started started blocking the SE attack animation for the Swordsman. It's rough, awkard, etc.; I only have the key frames down right now. Sorry if the gif plays a bit fast. Any thoughts on the general motion?

I also threw together the beginnings to a possible replacement for the Javelineer -- trying to find the balance between the shiny metal of the new sprites and the all-leather of the current Javelineer. LordBob's portrait gave me a lot of inspiration: link (fifth down). I'm really hoping he did his research for the portrait so that I don't have to much for the sprite. :P

And that's it for now. Thoughts would be much appreciated!
Attachments
wipcomparision.png
wipcomparision.png (14.7 KiB) Viewed 4979 times
block1.gif
block1.gif (4.36 KiB) Viewed 4979 times

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beetlenaut
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Re: Loyalists

Post by beetlenaut » January 17th, 2015, 6:47 am

I'm very glad to see someone taking this on! My non-artist opinion is that just about everything looks great. Only one nitpick: The javelineer's nearer arm looks too long. Maybe the metal guard is supposed to stick out backwards past his elbow, but it doesn't really read that way to me.
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vultraz
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Re: Loyalists

Post by vultraz » January 17th, 2015, 7:50 am

Nice! Always great to see new contributions :D Keep it up!

I agree with beetlenaut about the Javelineer's elbow. Also, I suppose a nitpick, but the legs of these guys look weird. Too stiff.
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Tom_Of_Wesnoth
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Re: Loyalists

Post by Tom_Of_Wesnoth » January 17th, 2015, 11:13 am

The Sergeant seems a bit too large for a level 1. He's about as tall as all the level 2 units in the picture, and also very wide. Other than that, I absolutely love these. Would it really be noticing able if the new base frames used the old animations until new animations are finished?

EDIT: I had a go at fixing the Javelineer's arm that people have mentioned.
Attachments
Side by side. New one with new arm on the left.
Side by side. New one with new arm on the left.
JavelineerArms.png (1.76 KiB) Viewed 4902 times
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aquileia
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Re: Loyalists

Post by aquileia » January 18th, 2015, 12:06 pm

Hi amorphous,

exactly my thought as well! It really is a shame they lacked animations.

I created a repository for sprites ect. from the forums that might find their way into mainline; perhaps it'll save you some time searching though the old thread?
https://github.com/aquileia/wesnoth-res ... /loyalists

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Crow_T
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Re: Loyalists

Post by Crow_T » January 18th, 2015, 8:53 pm

Here is my own edit of the javie's arm:
wipcomparision2.png
wipcomparision2.png (15.28 KiB) Viewed 4783 times

Also, having animations with few frames can still work out nicely, and in-betweens can be added later, even by less skilled spriters.

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Tom_Of_Wesnoth
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Re: Loyalists

Post by Tom_Of_Wesnoth » January 18th, 2015, 9:11 pm

What was wrong with my edit?
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Dixie
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Re: Loyalists

Post by Dixie » January 18th, 2015, 10:15 pm

Design-wise, do we want to javelineer to have a shiny silvery-blue armor like all other units? I thought the coppery one gave it character and made it stand out. I'd say either keep the old color palette, or if you absolutely want the shiny stuff, maybe just give him a metal breastplate, no pauldrons and no armbands, all the rest being leather (although maybe metal greaves could be okay).
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Tom_Of_Wesnoth
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Re: Loyalists

Post by Tom_Of_Wesnoth » January 18th, 2015, 10:17 pm

I quite like the Javelineer as it is now. The main colour scheme is still unique, but the use of some shiny parts link it to the rest of the Loyalists a bit better.
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Crow_T
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Re: Loyalists

Post by Crow_T » January 18th, 2015, 10:42 pm

Tom_Of_Wesnoth wrote:What was wrong with my edit?
To me in both your edit and the original the humerus is too long, which makes the elbow look too low. I just raised it up a bit.

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Tom_Of_Wesnoth
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Re: Loyalists

Post by Tom_Of_Wesnoth » January 18th, 2015, 10:44 pm

Crow_T wrote:
Tom_Of_Wesnoth wrote:What was wrong with my edit?
To me in both your edit and the original the humerus is too long, which makes the elbow look too low. I just raised it up a bit.
Personally, I think your one looks like it has no elbow at all. But I'm not very good at pixel art, so I'll defer to your experience.
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Amorphous
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Re: Loyalists

Post by Amorphous » January 19th, 2015, 5:36 am

Woah, thanks a ton for the comments and encouragement, everyone. :) Trying to go through these one by one. . . .

@beetlenaut et al: The arm definitely looks wacky. Thanks both for your edits, Tom and Crow; I looked at your takes while fiddling with it. Can't tell if the latest version is much better -- thoughts?
vultraz wrote:[...]the legs of these guys look weird. Too stiff.
I hadn't noticed that before, but I agree. :hmm: I'll make sure to check the legs out when I get around to the other sprites.
aquileia wrote:I created a repository for sprites ect. from the forums that might find their way into mainline; perhaps it'll save you some time searching though the old thread?
Ooh, thanks a lot for sharing this, aquileia! Could indeed save much time trawling through posts. :)
Dixie wrote:Design-wise, do we want to javelineer to have a shiny silvery-blue armor like all other units? I thought the coppery one gave it character and made it stand out. I'd say either keep the old color palette, or if you absolutely want the shiny stuff, maybe just give him a metal breastplate, no pauldrons and no armbands, all the rest being leather (although maybe metal greaves could be okay).
Hm, I'm interested why you think a metal breastplate and all leather (what he's supposed to be wearing, based off the Loyalist portrait thread) otherwise would be more like the old Javelineer. I feel like that would actually lend more visual priority to the metal by making it larger and more isolated. That said, this issue (and everything else thus far) is still totally up in the air until an Art Director says something. Besides, even though I'm partial to the current design, it'd be fun to come up with alternates. :)

Also, question: what's the general consensus for the next unit that should be animated? I know it's pretty open-ended at this point, but I'm trying to approach this with some amount of methodology. Starting with the Swordsman made sense to me, because he's (probably?) the most commonly chosen advancement for the Spearman. After that I've got nothing that demands obvious priority.

Last thing: I have exams this coming week, so apologies in advance for potential lack of activity. Thanks again for all your thoughts!
Attachments
Left to right: newest iteration, original, Tom's, and Crow's
Left to right: newest iteration, original, Tom's, and Crow's
javelineercompilation.png (4.31 KiB) Viewed 4729 times
block2.gif
block2.gif (5.01 KiB) Viewed 4729 times

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Tom_Of_Wesnoth
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Re: Loyalists

Post by Tom_Of_Wesnoth » January 19th, 2015, 7:52 am

Why is the animation saved as block2 when it's an attack animation?
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vultraz
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Re: Loyalists

Post by vultraz » January 19th, 2015, 10:45 am

It's just a file name. In this case it refers to the second iteration of the blocking stage of an animation, where the sprite is largely unshaded and uses large blocks of color.
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Dixie
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Re: Loyalists

Post by Dixie » January 19th, 2015, 5:11 pm

Amorphous wrote: Hm, I'm interested why you think a metal breastplate and all leather (what he's supposed to be wearing, based off the Loyalist portrait thread) otherwise would be more like the old Javelineer. I feel like that would actually lend more visual priority to the metal by making it larger and more isolated. That said, this issue (and everything else thus far) is still totally up in the air until an Art Director says something. Besides, even though I'm partial to the current design, it'd be fun to come up with alternates. :)
Well, I liked how the javelineer stood out from other loyalists units, but I somehow don't really like it when both the coppery armor and the blue-silvery one are mixed. So my comment was more meant to say "I'd pick one or the other". Either the coppery one which stands out, or the silvery one which fits better aesthetically. The second part of my comment, about the breastplate, was more along the lines of "if the silvery color is choosen, making all armor silvery would be a pretty massive change and maybe the unit would loose some of its unique feel. So in an effort to correct that, maybe give the unit less metal armor pieces (like, maybe just a breastplate, helmet and greaves) and more leather ones (pauldrons, kneepads, armbands, etc.)". In either cases, I think you did an otherwise goodjob modrnising those units and coloring them, keep it up (and good luck with your exams)! :)
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