LordBob's random stuff : ancient wose

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johndh
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Re: LordBob's random stuff : trolls !

Post by johndh » June 1st, 2011, 1:38 am

Err... so is he a living rock creature like a golem/elemental, or does he have a hard rocky exoskeleton of sorts on top of muscle, organs, etc.? I don't think we've hammered out troll anatomy yet. :hmm: And if trolls regenerate, then how would the carvings persist?
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Re: LordBob's random stuff : trolls !

Post by em3 » June 1st, 2011, 9:37 am

johndh wrote:And if trolls regenerate, then how would the carvings persist?
Well, they regeneration might be imperfect. They regenerate enought to function normally, but scars persist. Or maybe the regenerated parts look a bit different...
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Re: LordBob's random stuff : trolls !

Post by LordBob » June 1st, 2011, 11:00 am

I'm not ready yet to delve into troll innards, but I'd rather go for the exoskeleton with some sort of living stuff inside. As far as regeneration goes now, my take on the carvings would be that they're superficial and as such not harmful enough to be perceived by their organism like an injury. Pretty much like cutting through dead skin doesn't set off healing in a human body.

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Re: LordBob's random stuff : trolls !

Post by homunculus » June 1st, 2011, 4:31 pm

LordBob wrote:[...]exoskeleton with some sort of living stuff inside.[...]
Getting bit offtopic, but is there a troll discussion somewhere?
Because I perceive this stone exoskeleton armor as dangerous and would like to voice my opinion properly there with all the flames and sparks and stuff.
Living solid stone statues that move by distorting time and space would create less contradictions than exoskeletons.
Otherwise we would probably get to flesh "trolls" with small stones glued to their skin and your portrait would become useless :wink:

My vote goes to the first tattoo.
edit: it looks like a map of the troll domain, which might be fitting in the case of a great troll.
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Re: LordBob's random stuff : trolls !

Post by Dixie » June 1st, 2011, 7:16 pm

homunculus wrote:Otherwise we would probably get to flesh "trolls" with small stones glued to their skin and your portrait would become useless :wink:
Imho: art > arbitrarily written background/lore
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Re: LordBob's random stuff : trolls !

Post by doofus-01 » June 2nd, 2011, 3:43 am

Dixie wrote:
homunculus wrote:Otherwise we would probably get to flesh "trolls" with small stones glued to their skin and your portrait would become useless :wink:
Imho: art > arbitrarily written background/lore
Cosign. But written crap can provide consistency across portraits, story images & sprite animations. As for the tattoos, I believe the first of three is too synthetic-looking. The third is cartooney, maybe that's OK. If I were you (and I'm ... not ...) I'd put the tattoos in the shading only, no lines. Painterly, not patterned.

In other words, I think you could pull it off beautifully if you didn't think about it too much.
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Re: LordBob's random stuff : trolls !

Post by johndh » June 2nd, 2011, 5:39 am

homunculus wrote: Getting bit offtopic, but is there a troll discussion somewhere?
There is now.
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Re: LordBob's random stuff : trolls !

Post by kitty » June 2nd, 2011, 11:36 am

I love all the detail you put on him!

About the carvings - I still like the idea very, very much but those don't work too well yet, the first version feels too fine and precise for trolls and the last one is rather hard to make out... Someone suggested filling the carvings with paint, I'm thinking about something along the lines of Nuba body painting (you know the famous Leni Riefenstahl photographs?) perhaps. But after some experimenting I've got the impression that paint-filled carvings make the coloured lines more important than the carvings themselves easily - what do you think?
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Re: LordBob's random stuff : trolls !

Post by Sangel » June 4th, 2011, 2:37 am

kitty wrote:But after some experimenting I've got the impression that paint-filled carvings make the coloured lines more important than the carvings themselves easily - what do you think?
I think that looks incredibly cool - a truly fresh interpretation on body markings. But then, I suspect you were asking LordBob. :D
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Re: LordBob's random stuff : trolls !

Post by Djehuty » June 5th, 2011, 1:49 am

Hi.

The way I imagine trolls "beauty" marks is as rudimentary as the ones in Lord of the Rings Uruk-hais.
They contrast well with the body colour, are rude while maintaining the mood / theme, and are cool to the eye (at least mine).

My only bug with the trolls is that they are being created more like Stone Golems than like Trolls (even though I've never seen any of them :P ), but since the pictures are coming out so :shock: (wonderful) I just don't care.

Great work.

Edit: Forgot to mention, about their cloths trolls must have some skills with their hands and some degree of intelligence to use those skills, or how would they make those weapons. The tree trunks I get, but where can someone salvage that mace-like-thing with blades on the top?
So give trolls some credit :mrgreen:
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Re: LordBob's random stuff : trolls !

Post by LordBob » June 5th, 2011, 8:50 am

I've given this some thought:
  • In the end, I'm not sure about carvings. Trolls use little to no tools and I can't picture them dropping at their favourite dwarf sculptor's for a new victory tatoo. And orcs doing the job isn't any more likely.
  • Crude paint, on the other hand, is much easier to make up and use
  • I like Kitty's reference pictures a lot
So expect nuba-style body paintings for the final result, no carving. More coming shortly.

Oh, and the mace is really simple: you remove the clapper of a large bell - plenty of which could likely be found in abandonned human villages/ransacked cities, then ask your average orc smith to hammer some spikes into it, and voilà: a huge mace of solid iron that none save a troll can lift, with garanteed leathality on impact :twisted:

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Re: LordBob's random stuff : trolls !

Post by tr0ll » June 5th, 2011, 9:41 pm

i like where it is going! the eyes and skin are really different from other races which emphasizes they are not made the same way.

<aside>would love for troll warriors to add the piercing damage type based on the spiked club idea, if it is possible</aside>

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Re: LordBob's random stuff : trolls !

Post by Jetrel » June 6th, 2011, 10:55 pm

tr0ll wrote:<aside>would love for troll warriors to add the piercing damage type based on the spiked club idea, if it is possible</aside>
Damage types aren't purely about the mechanics of wounding; they're also about maneuverability, and ease of striking sound blows in combat. Cavalry aren't vulnerable against spears in wesnoth because of any unusual vulnerability of a horse against a spear; horses are just as badly damaged by a sword. Cavalry get additional damage against spears because it's easier to strike a mortal blow against a horse with a spear, than it is with a sword.

Damage types are being used to "catch-all" simulate several major aspects we just don't directly simulate. Wesnoth does not have critical hits as a concept. Most especially, wesnoth does not have "weapon reach" as a concept, and wesnoth doesn't really have "weapon repulsion" as a concept.

If wesnoth was a realtime game, horsemen wouldn't take any more damage from spears than anything else. However, a wall of spears would have double or triple the reach of their cavalry swords, would be able to physically repel their large bodies from closing in to do damage to the spearmen, and would have a decent change of dealing mortal blows rather than just lacerating the horse. By contrast, a heavily armored (full plate) swordsman would have a high chance of sliding through (wedging his way into) the wall of spears without getting injured, and once past the line of spears, would be able to hack away at the spearmen with impunity (presumably, the spearmen might have a minimum range in addition to a maximum), making them useless unless in large groups.

We don't do this stuff; we try to oversimplify the simulation so we can have a clear, simple game that doesn't take forever to play. Simply speaking, all of the above that I described would be extremely difficult to implement in a turn-based, tile-based game, and most of the ways I can think of would explode the time it would take to play a single game. That's why we don't do it.
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Re: LordBob's random stuff : trolls !

Post by tr0ll » June 7th, 2011, 6:08 am

ah yes, keep it simple. agreed.
in most cases the impact damage would dwarf the piercing damage anyway. i guess i was thinking of the cases where a target has very high impact resistance and/or negative piercing resistance, for example a hypothetical balloon monster :mrgreen: , those relatively small spikes would be crucial. however, this is where having goblin or saurian or orc friends comes in handy 8)
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Re: LordBob's random stuff : trolls !

Post by LordBob » June 13th, 2011, 11:41 am

And back to the topic at hand, here comes the finished version of the great troll, complete with lineart and all.
In addition to paint markings, I've done extra rock texture and cracks in order to tone down the comics aspect.
I'll try and include more rocky features in early sketches for future trolls, so that their final appearance improves.

Next random portraits will be the troll shaman and troll warrior, at which point we'll have a complete series.
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