thespaceinvader's portraits - Ancient Wose

[kitty]

good stuff!

the shaman:
pretty much there i think! still some little quibbles you could work on:
* his shoulderpads make more sense now - but they aren't symmetrical, one is round and one has a edge...
* the tail's curve is a bit shakily, make it more elegant and fluent. (especially the lower outline)
* the staff's top looks much better now! the moon element is used cleverly - but honestly that stone just looks strange. i know that you set your heart on it, but it really brings the portrait down. wether think of something new or paint a better stony stone...


the skirmisher:

* why do you do full body shots? or rather: if you do full body shots always think of how they will look cropped waist-up!
* the tail is identical to the shaman's one... do something more natural!
* one the one hand i love the zulu elements you bring in here! but on the other hand: why?! you really should establish one consitent look for one race! now you have the shaman with rather elaborate moon-star-decorations and one skirmisher who is obviously part of a completely different culture - you'll have to take a decision!


keep 'em comming!

[kitty]

w.r.t. cropping: if you have a hunched pose like inarix it is justified but the latest two are standing and just slightly hunched (like old men). i just want to have as few full body portraits as possible to keep the look consistent. otherwise one could start to argue that dwarves are small, too and thus should be shown completely... ( and there is no full-body whelp in yet!)

and i'm curious to see the coloured skirmisher! i wasn't so much talking about the presence or absence of the moon symbol but about the "level" of culture (that sounds like crap, i hope you get what mean) - one with sewn and embroided clothes and jewlery and one nude and with rather primitive wheapons. but i trust you know what you are doing, or at least your plan sounds worthwhile.


huh - did i dream your answer?

[JW]

huh - did i dream your answer?

I saw it as well....idk wtf happened to it though.

[thespaceinvader]

WRT cropping: given the size and hunched-over animalistic nature of the Saurians, as for the Troll whelp (and seen successfully in Inarix's portrait) i think a full-body shot would be appropriate.

I'll look into the stone. I'm thinking maybe a more toned down colour and slightly different magic effects might bring it up a little. Or possibly making it looks a little more crystalline, like the lich's, and nuts to the whole polished-pebble thing.

The skirmisher: I'm happy to add similar details (though it's unclear, there's a moon symbol on the top of the shield stave already), and the armour design is going to echo the augur's - bronze, similar shapes etc - but it's not too much of a stretch to imagine that the religious/spiritual elements of a society could look remarkably different from the civilian and from the soldiery elements. The shield shape comes directly from that seen on the level 2 and 3 sprites.

The lunar theme would be continued on the front of the shield, too, if we could see it. it irritates me that we can't actually - it was going to be some form of scaly reptile hide, possibly from a drake or a rival saurian tribe =D

EDIT: hope this is an improvement. I've reworked some of the lines (the tail, path tool being a great boon for long smooth curves, and the shoulder pads, to give a better impression of their shape, and re-engineered the staff head.

And no, JW/kitty, you didn't. Generally, when I make an edit before anyone else has answered, i delete and repost, to ensure that the post gets bumped and it actually gets read... This time, i realised further edits were needed mid-post...

EDIT again: as regards primitiveness of weapons: i'm going for obsidian for the heads of the spears (again, as in Inarix's) on the basis that the saurians don't have the tech to make any metals other than bronze, which is worse for weapons than obsidian, particularly for spear heads. The rest will be on roughly the same level - the under-clothes will be embroidered etc. he won't be nude, i just haven't yet drawn the clothes or armour...

EDIT once more: I'm calling this final, by the way. Any more edits are really going to be tiny quibbles, and i'm starting to get fed up with this guy...

And EDIT again: basic lines and flats for the skirmisher. A lot of refinement is needed, but this is just to give the general impression of the gear etc.

[LordBob]

Well, not much to add that hasn't been said already - maybe something about the curve of the skirmisher's belt : bent as he is, his belly would stretch the belt and cloth, which isn't obvious with the current setting of the belts.

Also, while I really like the zulu elements, it does contrast with the moon-ish staff of the augur. Maybe a vaguely crescent-shaped shield, or embossed armour/jewelry that reminds the moon theme ?

[thespaceinvader]

Minor linework edits and cleanup.

I have to say i really don't see much of a contrast here. Look at the difference between, for example, the regalia of the human wizard line and the human loyalist line, or between the elf fighter line and the elf shaman line. The equipment is markedly different, though certain elements are shared. In this case, a few lunar symbols are carried across (notably on top of the shield shaft), and the design and materials of the armour and underclothes are shared. I think that's enough, tbh. Shading tomorrow, if i'm not too busy.

[Cloud]

Wonderful art, I'm a big fan of all the recent Wesnoth art, and finally registered to add a few opinions and general compliments.

I love the Lunar Theme you've added, it really brings the Saurians to life (as soon as I saw this I had an urge to go play Drakes just to fight with the Saurians, as I've only ever fought against them in TroW), and I know the cropping is against the grain, but for a small race of non-humanoids I don't feel it detracts. Yes Dwarves are short, but they have a distinct human face and body which allows a lot of expression. Units like the Saurians (I can imagine, I'm no artist) could be difficult to draw just the head and shoulders whilst still doing the unit justice.

Small points I've literally just picked up on, and I don't mean to niggle (I know what it's like):

1) The fin on the helmet-y bit, though rather cool, doesn't make much sense as the other fins along the neck are very upright. I like the different style of fins, so personally I would opt for smoothing it out, or just making it a ridge. The alternative is to have a fin partially out of it, which would look great, but the other fins would look a little strange then (unless you could make the fin under the helmet look like it was straining the be like the others, but being held down by the helmet). Still I like the way you've made such a simple change to the Saurian to make it different from the Auger.

2) The hand on the left (it's right hand) is holding the pole totally vertical, while the pole itself is at an angle. It's a very minor thing I didn't spot until I was looking close), I'm not sure what to suggest for that, but I'm sure that could be changed without too many problems, I hope at least.

All in all though I love the look of the Skirmisher already, it's going to look amazing.

The lunar theme would be continued on the front of the shield, too, if we could see it. it irritates me that we can't actually - it was going to be some form of scaly reptile hide, possibly from a drake or a rival saurian tribe =D

Perhaps you could add it into the Ambusher or Flanker portrait (I think I'm right in saying most units, even those with linear progression have at least a portrait for level 1, and level 2 (but only sometimes level 3). Just a thought

Once again great work, I look forward to seeing the finished version

[thespaceinvader]

I'm not intending on doing more than one portrait for the skirmisher line. Though if i were, it would be another one for the skirmisher, who has neither shield nor armour...

And I intended that the spines on the head would flap down, and that their current position would be the highest they could go.

[Cloud]

Okay, just thought I'd throw in an idea, reject mine as much as you want

Ahh, I wasn't sure so I thought I'd add it.

Keep up the good work

[kitty]

wow! the new staff-top is great, i love how you echo the obsidian of the spear! to me he looks fine - let's wait for jetryl's final statement.

some things not worth changing in this one, but to keep in mind for future ones: better planning and avoiding odd overlaps and tangents! namely the way the right sleeve disappeares behind the staff, or the top of the staff just touching the bracelet. and you could play with skin/scale clour more - the green is somewhat plain.
and i think we will have to use him full-body, i just tried to crop him to a waist-up portrait but i wether loose the staff (which is the focal point) or have to crop him at the knees which shows his muscular/fat tighs *very* unfavourabely... if you do full body portraits in future please use a composition that comfortably allows cropping!



as for the skirmisher, i'm still not convinced by the shield. to me it clashes with the rest of the design. just adding a moon won't make it less zulu. but do as you wish... and the breastarmour and straps don't seem to be symmetrical and aren't following the form of his body.
but i like his fierce facial expression!

[thespaceinvader]

Duly noted. I think a crop is an option for the skirmisher. There's nothing in particular of importance in the lower third to half of the image. And these are the only ones i'm planning doing full-body for (apart, possibly, from the odd monster like the Bat which would be a bugger to do cropped any other way) - it simply makes more sense to me when the proportions are as they are, with important parts going into the lower parts of the image due to the long arms and animalistic posture.

That being said, I'll probably leave any further work on the skirmisher until Jetryl's had a chance to have a say. I'll certainly fix up the armour, and consider changing the shield. But i do like the idea of that syle of shield, particularly with the spears through it.

[Neoskel]

Kitty, why don't you just be a little more creative with your cropping? It's not all that hard to crop the augur 'from the waist up' without showing ugly legs if you crop a little off center.

Here's a rough unmeasured example.


And space invader, ace work on these portraits. Are you planning on doing a separate portrait for the oracle? He does have a rather unique look, but it's not strictly necessary.

And on the skirmisher line portrait, maybe you should add some sort of frame (wooden or bronze) around the shield. As it is right now there's nothing really stretching the leather/keeping it from folding.

[thespaceinvader]

NO, i'm not. And that crop doesn't work for the 400x400 portraits, since they can't be cropped on the righthand side of the image. It would be fine for the 205x205 one though.

And the zulu war shields don't need any form of stiffening. The hide is very thick, and is dried thoroughly to keep it stiff on its own.

Though, thinking about it, saurians spend a reasonable amount of time in swamps, which would wet the hide and make it lose its stiffness. Hide-only shields may not be practical in non-dry environments...

This may need a re-think...bugger. I'll keep the shape, but change the maerials, i think. I'l definitely keeping the spears as they are, though...

[Corvvs]

You could give him a crescent shaped shield... http://www.ancient-bulgaria.com/images/Thracian.jpg. But IMO it looks just fine now. Keep up the good work.

[kitty]

just a short remark, i'm tired: you *can* crop the portraits at one of the sides! if you have it sitting at the bottom left side of the monitor at the left side and vice versa. thus: just mirror him and crop him like suggested.

and please don't worry about leather, water and such crap - just make it look cool and consistent! it's a fantasy world, just declare your material water resistant leather from animal xyz and you're fine.