Standing and idle animations?

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Dunno
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Re: Standing and idle animations?

Post by Dunno »

Ok, do you mean something like this with the sword? Sorry for being such a pain, I'm completely new to this :wink:
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new sword movement
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AI
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Re: Standing and idle animations?

Post by AI »

In both cases, the sword is moving because he's moving his wrist. Why would he be moving his wrist? The likely reason a sword would be moving is because his breathing causes his chest to expand and contract, causing the entire arm to move upwards and outwards. The mass of the sword would anchor the hand holding it to some degree, meaning the hand would move less than the rest of the arm, and the tip of the sword might move the least. (his breathing may also cause the arm to rotate. When in doubt about how things move, try it out!)

(I'm just a dev playing at kinematics here, mostly echoing beetlenaut. An actual artist might be able to explain it better, or tell you what I said was entirely wrong)
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Dunno
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Re: Standing and idle animations?

Post by Dunno »

AI wrote:In both cases, the sword is moving because he's moving his wrist. Why would he be moving his wrist? The likely reason a sword would be moving is because his breathing causes his chest to expand and contract, causing the entire arm to move upwards and outwards. The mass of the sword would anchor the hand holding it to some degree, meaning the hand would move less than the rest of the arm, and the tip of the sword might move the least.

(I'm just a dev playing at kinematics here, mostly echoing beetlenaut. An actual artist might be able to explain it better, or tell you what I said was entirely wrong)
Ah I see! So it's not the way he's turning the sword, but the very movement. Now that you mention it, it does look illogical. :hmm: So I don't have to rotate the sword at all, only make it follow his arm, which should follow his chest?
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Re: Standing and idle animations?

Post by beetlenaut »

Dunno wrote:So I don't have to rotate the sword at all, only make it follow his arm, which should follow his chest?
That's what I was trying to say. Yes.
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Re: Standing and idle animations?

Post by homunculus »

You might try to figure out the center of mass of the sword.
The sword looks like a cutlass or machete kind of thing, which is a top-heavy chopping sword, rather than like a fencing sword.
Therefore, the center of mass should be near the tip of the sword, 1/3 the length of the sword max, but probably less.
Then you should rotate the sword around that center of mass (along with some translation in the direction along the sword if the hand might also be pulling, if you will), or otherwise you would strain the wrist.

Try it with a heavy object if that explanation was unclear.

True, the tip of the sword should move less than the hilt.
Also, the tip and the hilt should be moving in opposite directions.
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Dunno
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Re: Standing and idle animations?

Post by Dunno »

Thanks for your comments, I hope I'm making progress. :)
Btw, is there any particular reason why this animation isn't committed (as a standing animation, not idle)? I've been reading through this thread from the beginning and there are so many great but half-finished animations scattered around. When (and if) I'm done with ol' grunty here, I think I'll just go and try finish some.
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Re: Standing and idle animations?

Post by beetlenaut »

That's a lot better. The breathing motion looks pretty good now. I'm not too sure about the cape and ribbons though: Two grunts facing each other would have them blowing in opposite directions.
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Re: Standing and idle animations?

Post by doofus-01 »

I just want to say that these heaving animations are insane. They might make sense for a badly wounded unit, and that would be a way to use the frames that folks have contributed, but in general, this is really silly. Read the first several pages of this thread to see if I'm just being an irrational hater.

Dunno: I'm not trying to single you out, I liked how you tried to make an idle animation - that's cool, and the more, the merrier. The BfW engine as it is can do a lot of things, and it is only the lack of images that prevents many nifty things from happening.

But what is the point of the "breathing" animations? Might as well just have hurricanes waving the ribbons on an orc's helmet, it looks silly but so does the spearman's flexi-spear. It provides no information about anything, but it causes motion on the screen and that is what really counts.

If the thought of static images is so offensive, I hope we can come up with a better default animation than 'Battle for Asthma".

EDIT: Yes, zookeeper, of course the powers that be disagree or else these things wouldn't be getting committed. But if no one ever tells the emperor that he has no clothes...
Last edited by doofus-01 on June 9th, 2013, 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Standing and idle animations?

Post by zookeeper »

doofus-01 wrote:I just want to say that these heaving animations are insane. They might make sense for a badly wounded unit, and that would be a way to use the frames that folks have contributed, but in general, this is really silly. Read the first several pages of this thread to see if I'm just being an irrational hater.

Dunno: I'm not trying to single you out, I liked how you tried to make an idle animation - that's cool, and the more, the merrier. The BfW engine as it is can do a lot of things, and it is only the lack of images that prevents many nifty things from happening.

But what is the point of the "breathing" animations? Might as well just have hurricanes waving the ribbons on an orc's helmet, it looks silly but so does the spearman's flexi-spear. It provides no information about anything, but it causes motion on the screen and that is what really counts.

If the thought of static images is so offensive, I hope we can come up with a better default animation than 'Battle for Asthma".
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Re: Standing and idle animations?

Post by Dunno »

beetlenaut wrote:That's a lot better. The breathing motion looks pretty good now. I'm not too sure about the cape and ribbons though: Two grunts facing each other would have them blowing in opposite directions.
Yes I was thinking about this, and since I have all of the ribbons and capes saved as separate layers it won't be hard to make a south-west variation. That is, if wml supports this kind of thing. Besides, this problem exists already, as the static base frame suggests wind direction. Edit: yes, I think it can be done. But I'd still like to hear a thumbs-up before doing sw variation :)

@doofus believe me, I had my doubts too back when standing animations were only a concept. But after downloading 1.10 and seeing them in game I liked them in an instant! I think devs here know what they're doing.
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Dunno
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Re: Standing and idle animations?

Post by Dunno »

How about this?
Edit: for some reason the sw ribbons move less. And I could have sworn I was doing it the same way. Oh well, I'll fix it.
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-I say my dear Gurgadish, with wind like this I am surely going to catch a cold!<br />-Quite indeed, my dear Borg, quite indeed!
-I say my dear Gurgadish, with wind like this I am surely going to catch a cold!
-Quite indeed, my dear Borg, quite indeed!
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Dunno
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Re: Standing and idle animations?

Post by Dunno »

Alright, a small update. Anyone? I know Valkier's portraits are awesome but don't leave me here alone :mrgreen:
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Re: Standing and idle animations?

Post by artisticdude »

I'm not sure the inflating chest is necessarily a good idea. While I understand that it makes it a heck of a lot more readable as a breathing animation, I don't think that his armor would allow for that kind of flexibility. Right now the chest is stretched/distorted to the point where his armor appears to be made from Spandex. I think you probably have enough leeway/artistic license here to stretch the armor a little bit, but currently I think the range of motion is a bit excessive.
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Re: Standing and idle animations?

Post by LordBob »

In addition to the inflating chest, one thing that badly strikes me is the widening shoulders. There is no reason at all for this to happen in a breathing anim.
Shoulders accompany the upward movement of the ribcage, but the horizontal distance between them is absolutely unchanged. So, I'd say the pauldrons should move upwards by a pixel or two, no more.
Same goes for the arms, as a consequence
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Re: Standing and idle animations?

Post by Dunno »

Oh, I see... I only "inflated" his chest more because of beetlenaut's comments, then he even said
beetlenaut wrote:That's a lot better. The breathing motion looks pretty good now.
I'm a bit confused now, I feel like I'm going round in circles :(
Was this chest movement better?
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