A new unit picture

Post by **Sangel** » March 28th, 2004, 2:08 am

While mucking about with a concept for a Level 3 Revenant I was thinking of calling a Death Knight, I noticed that there's already a Level 3 Death Knight. Why doesn't the Revenant evolve into it?

Anyway, using fmunoz's Orcish Warrior as a base, I ended up producing a rather brutal looking footsoldier in steel grey, alpha mapped and ready to insert. I've also played with the colours to produce an obvious upgrade, though I intend to play with him some more. Perhaps horns for the helmet, bigger shoulder-pads, etc.

Anyway, what do you think?

Post by **turin** » March 28th, 2004, 2:27 am

looks interesting, do you have any proposed stats?

about the pictures-
the arm holding the hammer looks very awkward, and the hammer itself it at an odd angle.
all you did to make the upgrade was add color- this is a bad idea. you need to actually change the stance of a unit to have it look like a separate unit, otherwise, when glancing at it, it will look like the same unit.

Post by **Sangel** » March 28th, 2004, 3:33 am

Going from completely colourless to quite colourful would seem quite a strong signal to me... still, I'll probably change the stance on the upgraded version when I get around to it.

How's this new hammer?

Gafgarion · Post by **Gafgarion** » March 28th, 2004, 4:32 am

Actually, my first thought upon see the picture was "Hey, shock trooper upgrade".

Post by **Sangel** » March 28th, 2004, 6:08 am

That's a good idea, actually. What would it be called? A Storm Trooper? A Siege Trooper? And what would its stats be?

Perhaps Level 3, Cost 100, HP 64, Move 4 with an 20-3 Mace (Impact) attack?

Anyone else feel the Shock Trooper needs another level?

Woodwizzle · Post by **Woodwizzle** » March 28th, 2004, 6:15 am

I just wanna give props on the artwork! I think it looks awesome!

Christophe33 · Post by **Christophe33** » March 28th, 2004, 6:29 am

I'm in favor of a level 3 for shock trooper. I don't like that name much since it sounds too modern , maybe bone crusher would be more in tone. The graphic is really good but now you have to reajust a bit the angle of the hand and arm holding the hammer to be aligned with the hammer itself. It is not always easy with so few pixel to give the right impression.

Post by **Sangel** » March 28th, 2004, 7:05 am

I agree, Storm Trooper is has been overexposed by Star Wars. Though I still think Siege Trooper works, or Assault Trooper. Anyway, I've changed his hand - does it work better now? Also, a plumed version for your consideration.

Thanks Woodwizzle!

Woodwizzle · Post by **Woodwizzle** » March 28th, 2004, 7:42 am

If this is going to be a level 3 only unit I suggest going with the version with the gold accents

Christophe33 · Post by **Christophe33** » March 28th, 2004, 8:03 am

Woodwizzle wrote:If this is going to be a level 3 only unit I suggest going with the version with the gold accents

That ssuggestion makes sense... but not golden accent on the hammer maybe.
The problem with the hand holding the hammer seems to be in the elbow (or lack of it). You should have the upper arm going down fast then the forearm going up a bit (so a nice angle for the elbow). The hand would be slightly tilted. It is not easy to represent in such a small picture, specially with some perspective effects. Also the head of the hammer appears missaligned with the shaft. You probably just need to play with a few pixels,and changing their shade to realignned it. The defensive posture looks nice, you couldd usethe arm holding the hammer from there as a model (inverted with vertical flip function) to remake the arm in the basic picture.

Post by **Sangel** » March 28th, 2004, 6:43 pm

New arm, fist and hammer head. I'll redo the gold version once it's pretty much finalised. Also, slight changes to the attack and defend animations (nothing really - alpha mask differences and a slightly lower head).

Once the base model is finalised I may redo the highlights.

Post by **Jetrel** » March 30th, 2004, 10:06 am

Nah, the problem with the hammer is that the hand holding it needs to be about halfway up the haft. Don't believe me? Then try it with a sledge.

A "great hammer" such as this is, needs a counterweight of sorts. An oft effective one, and one of the simplest to build is simply a long handle on the hammer.

Axes work the same way - A person may have their hand down at the end, but they MUST also have a hand in the middle. The hand at the end is optional, and gives more leverage, the hand in the middle is mandatory, and is the fulcrum on which the hammer turns.

Holding a hammer at the end with both hands sacrifices a great deal of control in order to maximize one's leverage. Typically, one will only do this in mid-swing, after they have stabilized the path through which the hammer is swinging. They will then pull the hammer in a vector complimentary to the motion of its head (down, for example, if one was bringing a hammer down on someones forehead).

Typically, this is parallel to the motion vector experienced by the center of mass of the hammer (the head).

The only hammers that can effectively be wielded at the end of the haft are those whose haft is nearly the same weight as the head, with the exception of very large hammers, as those must be lifted from the middle simply to, well, lift them.

Just try swinging a sledge around at home. I'm dead serious.
Pay close attention to which part of the hammer feels easiest to fight with - would you be able to redirect the hammer in a split second?

The biggest thing is this - swords held at an angle like that aren't very tiring to hold, which is why many of the characters in wesnoth look perfectly natural holding theirs that way.

Maces, Axes, hammers, etc. cannot be held "at rest" like that for any length of time. Your arms will fall off.

I could see the guy maybe swinging it back there in preparation to strike, but not just standing around like that.

Gafgarion · Post by **Gafgarion** » March 30th, 2004, 11:58 am

Something I recommend for any unit-making artist is trying out the weapon your are depicting (or something similar).

I am blessed with owning many medieval weapons and I have found them to be critical as to how i do unit graphics.

When working on my Bard unit, I took out my dagger and practiced stabs a few times. I found that as my right arm extended into the stab, my left arm retracted and my right knee bent. I've found that observing these things is critical to making believable units.

Of course not many people are as lucky as me in this respect, but substitutes can be found.

(Fun fact about how "lucky" I am: I recently fell off a horse while being filmed doing rearing spear stabs. Ow

The Wesnoth horsemen have mad skillz )

Post by **Sangel** » March 30th, 2004, 9:11 pm

Well why didn't you say so in the first place?

Here's a new version, grasping the hammer further up the shaft.

Post by **turin** » March 30th, 2004, 9:37 pm

the right arm (the one holding the hammer) looks too close to the torso. it might help to have it as two 45 degree angles, as opposed to a 90 and 45 degree angle ( as in \/. not \| )