Up the River Bork

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Mirion147
Posts: 896
Joined: February 14th, 2008, 12:52 am

Up the River Bork

Post by Mirion147 »

Hello all!

So it's been a long time since I've tried anything like this, and I've never completed a campaign before, but I figured I'd give it a shot.

This campaign takes place during the orcish civil war early on in Wesnoth history: pre-100YW. It focuses on one orcish clan and the journey that it made.

The campaign "Up the River Bork" is available as an add-on but only on the development version 1.15.4! I would absolutely LOVE some feedback as I KNOW there is stuff that I messed up and did wrong, but I am open to fixing whatever has to be fixed!

Thank you all for your time and feedback!

[Edit] it is now available on stable 1.14.14 as well [/edit]
Take a look at the Era of the Future!
Current factions: The Welkin, The Brungar, and The Nordhris!
^This is old news lol but I don't care^
New news -> Up the River Bork Campaign!
Pilauli
Posts: 83
Joined: August 18th, 2020, 12:56 pm

Re: Up the River Bork

Post by Pilauli »

So, I played through the whole campaign today (er, yesterday, since it's now 3AM), on easy difficulty, and have a huge list of comments for you: (Made mostly in chronological order, with a little bit of later editing. I've got suggestions mixed in with notes on what I did, which is a bit disorganized, but I figure it might be useful data.)
Spoiler:
I hope some of this helps!
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Bladget
Posts: 21
Joined: August 23rd, 2020, 9:47 pm
Location: Eastern Europe

Re: Up the River Bork

Post by Bladget »

I am on scenario three. Easy difficulty. So far writing was acceptable. Level design is simple, however. A way to improve it would be to add more micro details that increase variety. Add more fronts in different biomes, for example. Sorry I can't be anymore specific. I struggle with level design myself.

So far the campaign is decent.
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Mirion147
Posts: 896
Joined: February 14th, 2008, 12:52 am

Re: Up the River Bork

Post by Mirion147 »

Thank you for your feedback!
Bladget wrote: September 17th, 2020, 10:56 am ...Level design is simple, however. A way to improve it would be to add more micro details that increase variety. Add more fronts in different biomes, for example...
Do you mean there should be more diversity in the maps? Different terrains?

Pilauli, wow, you have so much feedback! That's great! I really appreciate it! <-excessive ! apology.

General:
Spoiler:
Ep 1&2:
Spoiler:
Ep 3:
Spoiler:
Ep 4:
Spoiler:
Ep 5:
Spoiler:
Ep 6:
Spoiler:
Ep 7:
Spoiler:
Ep 8:
Spoiler:
Pilauli wrote: September 17th, 2020, 7:00 amDespite all the flaws I pointed out, I think this is a pretty good campaign with a lot of variety in the scenarios. It's just that it's easier to complain than to give compliments. :augh:
Bladget wrote: September 17th, 2020, 10:56 am So far the campaign is decent.
Thank you so much! I very much appreciate your feedback!
Take a look at the Era of the Future!
Current factions: The Welkin, The Brungar, and The Nordhris!
^This is old news lol but I don't care^
New news -> Up the River Bork Campaign!
Pilauli
Posts: 83
Joined: August 18th, 2020, 12:56 pm

Re: Up the River Bork

Post by Pilauli »

General
Mirion147 wrote: September 17th, 2020, 7:18 pm the river is named that, not by me.
That makes sense.

Hey, could you maybe give the episodes names? For example, "7: Outpost Besieged" or "7: Long Night". Or "1: Rebellion". Something tangentially related to the topic of the scenario. It would really make it easier to keep them straight.
Episode 1
Mirion147 wrote: September 17th, 2020, 7:18 pm :shock: This is actually an awesome idea that I had not thought of! Although someone else brought another idea to my attention and I think mixed with this it could be interesting, although possibly unnecessarily complicated? Every time you kill a wolf you gain a Wolf Rider, but you only gain the ability to recruit wolf riders when you kill the alpha wolf? were this the case, Mashuk would have to start fighting you after you got maybe 2 riders, otherwise everyone would ALWAYS get wolf riders.
Yeah, could be interesting. Complicated is no issue so long as you understand it and it all runs smoothly from the user's side... although that's a big 'if'.
Episode 3
Mirion147 wrote: September 17th, 2020, 7:18 pm
Spoiler:
Makes sense. Definitely appreciate being able to control the Shroomans. Splitting the recall lists is definitely possible; I think you store units and then kill them, so that they don't appear on the recall list, and then unstore them later. I should look into that for you.
Mirion147 wrote: September 17th, 2020, 7:18 pm I was thinking that, after you meet the trolls, if you bring Tirzag to the keep in the center of the map, he finds a lever which opens up a path directly to the new dwarvish city, and then at that point you could trigger the event if you haven't had a unit make it's way to the gate (thoughts?)
I like that idea.
If you do that, make sure to provide some hint that there is a lever there. For example, put a lever icon on the map there. Or better yet, use a rune. A rune is magic, and therefore it can arbitrarily demand someone with authority (Tirzag), whereas a lever only needs someone strong enough to pull it. Of course, you'd need a moveto event which where a unit moves on it and says something like "The rune didn't do anything. Maybe it only works for dwarves? Hmm... there's a little crown etched in the wall above it. Maybe it only responds to kings? Or maybe it's just graffiti..."
Episode 4
Mirion147 wrote: September 17th, 2020, 7:18 pm Do the objectives not display after you've been spotted? They're supposed to show you that you can't just leave now.
They display, it just doesn't feel fair. I got away free and clear, and I had to come back and beat them up and leave incontrovertible evidence of my presence?
Mirion147 wrote: September 17th, 2020, 7:18 pm I didn't want it to turn into a kill all enemies and that's it scenario. (Also I can't get the coding to work to limit everyone's vision)
...But you have to kill the leaders to get away if they spotted you.
Oh, :doh: I just looked in the scenario file, and if only one side spots you, then you can just wipe them out and leave the others alone. I didn't realize that was an option, so I tried to sneak through the middle and got seen by both of them.

I suggest adding dialogue when either side spots you, something like this:
Tirzag: "We'll have to kill the (human|elven) leader to make sure the (humans|elves) don't win this battle, because if they win, they're sure to hunt us down."
I think that would fix all of my problems.
Mirion147 wrote: September 17th, 2020, 7:18 pm I can't figure out how to limit the enemies vision of you (making it easier to sneak through without being spotted).
If you just want to limit their vision, you can mess with their vision attribute.
wiki.wesnoth.org/SingleUnitWML wrote:vision: The the number of vision points to calculate the unit's sight range. Default is the number of vision points specified for the [unit_type] described by type.
I think you could do something like this:

Code: Select all

[event]
	name=prerecruit
	[filter]
		side=2,3
	[/filter]
	[modify_unit]
		[filter]
			id=$unit.id
		[/filter]
		[object]
			[effect]
				apply_to=vision
				value=3
			[/effect]
		[/object]
	[/modify_unit]
[/event]
I haven't tested this snippet out, so I can't vouch for its functionality the way I can for my other code snippets so far.

If you want them to see the other group normally, but have a hard time seeing the player, I don't know how to do that.
Episode 6
Mirion147 wrote: September 17th, 2020, 7:18 pm I could put a ford, or something nearby on the west side of the mud.
Sounds good. There's sort of a partial ford made of reef tiles right now, but it's really slow.

Just spotted a slight inconsistency. The naga says I may take 3 other units, and I assumed he meant Vitrag and 2 recruited/recalled units, but he actually means Vitrag and also three other units. I didn't spot this until just now.

I just tried again, this time keeping Tirzag close to the keep, and noticed that the water serpent leaves the swamp and swims into the river. So the "keep it in the swamp" thing is not working. May I humbly suggest that you change it from "avoid these coordinates" to "avoid water"?

Okay, won and earned the nagas' aid by keeping Tirzag at the keep, sending wolf riders against the enemies (I already had 2 direwolf riders, and I leveled up 3 wolf riders to goblin knights) and then sending the wolf riders and an Orcish Slurbow (recruited before facing the wolves) around to fight the dragon. I won, but it's not really a test of Tirzag's strength.

Suggestion:
- When you get back to the keep after someone kills the water serpent, and the nagas tell you to head northwest, Tirgaz will complain "through all that water?" Naga: "Er, yes. It's not that bad, is it?"
- If Tirgaz is far enough away from the keep when the wolves die, add bridges. Naga: "We've added bridges, just for you! We hope you're properly grateful. Now come on back to the keep and we'll tell you where to go next."
(In other words, give the player bridges if and only if they are playing it the "honorable" way.)
Episode 7
Mirion147 wrote: September 17th, 2020, 7:18 pm (could you recruit naga?)
Not the first time around, but I re-tried the naga trials just now, gained the ability to recruit naga, and yep the distance from the water is annoying. (On a related note, nagas could theoretically be useful in the bay in the next scenario, but it would be a huge pain to get them there.)

General suggestion for this scenario: take away a couple of the Death Knight's castle hexes, so he recruits the same number of units spread out over more turns. That should avoid overwhelming the outpost, and also avoid him running out of gold so soon.

Did you say that you're supposed to need the trolls in order to defeat the undead? I've just had a brilliant idea!
Make the river deeper, so that there is literally no ford (because the ghosts and bats can fly over the water, the skeletons can wade through deep water, and the ghouls aren't much of a threat to archers with villages nearby, so they could just be removed) and then add some rubble piles on the shore or in the water.
Let the human player control the trolls, and make it so if a troll steps on the rubble piles, they create ford or reef that replaces the deep water. As in, make it so you can only ford the river if the trolls come.
This would not keep the nagas away from the enemy leaders, but I think I would say that if the nagas with their swords (weak against skeletons) can level up and become strong enough to kill the (skeletal) enemy leaders, the player probably deserves the win anyway.
Episode 8
Mirion147 wrote: September 17th, 2020, 7:18 pm Did you defeat both leaders before Kalenz showed up?
Spoiler:
I defeated both leaders (turn 16), and then Kalenz arrived, everyone talked, and then it said I won the level, and then it gave me a chunk of story which said Kalenz beat me up but it inspired my descendant. Let me see if I can figure out how to attach a replay...
Replays
Here's my replay for Episode 8.
UtRB-Episode 8 replay 20200917-004752.gz
(39.45 KiB) Downloaded 25 times
(I realize I could maybe have just attached replays for all of the scenarios and let you draw your own conclusions, but I prefer typing, and this probably saves you a lot of watching units shuffle around. Although now that I've figured out how to attach replays, I think I will attach replays for the scenarios with the big battles which I didn't do quite "right" - the troll scenario and the lich scenario. In case you want to see what I did.)
UtRB-Episode 3 replay 20200916-215237.gz
(57.28 KiB) Downloaded 24 times
UtRB-Episode 7 replay 20200917-000444.gz
(51.59 KiB) Downloaded 24 times
EDIT: Just remembered that there is/was a human faction called the Windsong.
https://units.wesnoth.org/1.14/Era_of_M ... l#Windsong
So calling your orc tribe that seems a little incongruous.
Tarcil
Posts: 6
Joined: October 31st, 2014, 11:46 am

Re: Up the River Bork

Post by Tarcil »

I like your campaign. It may be of a simple design, but its entertaining to follow the orcish tribe in their struggle. My only recommendation is to increase the turn limit in the cave with the trolls and dwarves. Because of the tunnels the turns run out before I even reach the dwarvish leader, even if I´m slowly advancing, but the sheer amount of dwarves block the way long enough with their bodies for turns running out.
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Mirion147
Posts: 896
Joined: February 14th, 2008, 12:52 am

Re: Up the River Bork

Post by Mirion147 »

Version 0.1.1 is now live on both Development and Stable! (The c is because I mixed up the starting scenario and messed up the ep4 then fixed it).
Tarcil wrote: September 19th, 2020, 12:22 pm I like your campaign. It may be of a simple design, but its entertaining to follow the orcish tribe in their struggle. My only recommendation is to increase the turn limit in the cave with the trolls and dwarves. Because of the tunnels the turns run out before I even reach the dwarvish leader, even if I´m slowly advancing, but the sheer amount of dwarves block the way long enough with their bodies for turns running out.
Thanks man! I've changed around some things in the third scenario so it should be a lot easier for the scenario to end!

Pilauli:

I will be naming the episodes, I just haven't gotten there yet! I did get a lot done so far though!

Ep3:
Spoiler:
Also, I just threw "Windsong" in there temporarily. I'm not sure what the current lore is behind clan names and orcish culture in general and I'm trying to decide how much of that culture I want to create.

Complete changelog for this update:
Spoiler:
Take a look at the Era of the Future!
Current factions: The Welkin, The Brungar, and The Nordhris!
^This is old news lol but I don't care^
New news -> Up the River Bork Campaign!
User avatar
Mirion147
Posts: 896
Joined: February 14th, 2008, 12:52 am

Re: Up the River Bork

Post by Mirion147 »

Not sure if double post here is a problem, I apologize if it is. That being said another update just got released! V0.1.2 live on Dev and Stable!

Changelog:
Spoiler:
Take a look at the Era of the Future!
Current factions: The Welkin, The Brungar, and The Nordhris!
^This is old news lol but I don't care^
New news -> Up the River Bork Campaign!
User avatar
Mirion147
Posts: 896
Joined: February 14th, 2008, 12:52 am

Re: Up the River Bork

Post by Mirion147 »

v0.1.3 release on Dev and Stable!

So the next release I plan to be more focused on the story/dialog, so any feedback in regards to that would be greatly appreciated!

Changelog:
Spoiler:
Take a look at the Era of the Future!
Current factions: The Welkin, The Brungar, and The Nordhris!
^This is old news lol but I don't care^
New news -> Up the River Bork Campaign!
tribes55
Posts: 132
Joined: June 10th, 2012, 4:29 am

Re: Up the River Bork

Post by tribes55 »

I tried to play the campaign. First time, this error popped:

Code: Select all

The following add-on had errors and could not be loaded:
    C:\Users\DDDR\Documents\My Games\Wesnoth1.14/data/add-ons/Up_the_River_Bork/_main.cfg

Please report this to the author or maintainer of this add-on.

Details:

    Found invalid closing tag [/event] for tag [message]
    opened at ~add-ons/Up_the_River_Bork/utils/difficulty_utils.cfg:1178
        included from ~add-ons/Up_the_River_Bork/_main.cfg:42
        included from ~add-ons/Up_the_River_Bork/scenarios/Episode_8.cfg:136
        included from ~add-ons/Up_the_River_Bork/_main.cfg:44
    closed at ~add-ons/Up_the_River_Bork/utils/difficulty_utils.cfg:1215
        included from ~add-ons/Up_the_River_Bork/_main.cfg:42
        included from ~add-ons/Up_the_River_Bork/scenarios/Episode_8.cfg:136
        included from ~add-ons/Up_the_River_Bork/_main.cfg:44

You forgot to close it here: (line 1175)

Code: Select all

	    [message]
		speaker=Tirzag
		message="Follow me, my brothers, and we will defeat all of those that stand in our path! To show your devotion you must swear a blood oath!"
	    [message]
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Mirion147
Posts: 896
Joined: February 14th, 2008, 12:52 am

Re: Up the River Bork

Post by Mirion147 »

Thank you! Sorry about that, it's been fixed and updated! I actually missed the close twice, both were fixed!
Take a look at the Era of the Future!
Current factions: The Welkin, The Brungar, and The Nordhris!
^This is old news lol but I don't care^
New news -> Up the River Bork Campaign!
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