WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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vorwi
Posts: 58
Joined: July 3rd, 2018, 10:11 am

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vorwi »

weewah wrote: October 3rd, 2021, 6:38 am
Also, how about making side missions "harder" by making more enemies spawn when you return to your fief? The side missions are basically the player going around making more enemies, so it makes sense that some of these enemies would seek out the player's fief for revenge.
Sounds good to me but side mission were made to skip season(make game easier) therefore it probably would be necessary to divide sub missions to two types.
1. those which are just for skipping season like indoors or cave clearing cause there is no way to make more enemies.(eventually helping fief cause after all they are all destroyed)
2. and adventure missions like raiding etc. which will actually make more enemies
vghetto
Posts: 755
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

weewah wrote: October 3rd, 2021, 6:38 am Can water villages be burned? They are underwater after all... If not, then maybe they should cost more?
They can be burned down. But beware, they become inaccessible in the spring due to deep water.

Thank you guys for the feedback about the sub missions and its effect on the main map. But, I need to address the following first before I move on to that.
Delicius169 wrote: September 8th, 2021, 9:43 am I feel like nothing is happening... So how about increasing the chances of enemy spawning on hard difficulty?
It is about time I looked at this seriously because it seems to be a common theme among the players.

Speaking of outlaws and bandits, side 3 (green) and 4 (purple). I'm reducing the grace period between their spawning from 9 turns to 6 turns (give or take, there is still some randomness here). I will also increase the limit on how many groups of outlaws or bandits can spawn from 4 to 6 per season for each side. That would make them 12 groups in total per season.

This change applies to both normal and hard. It won't affect the first scenario "A new beginning"

The question posed now in regard to the hard difficulty is the following: How many groups do you want to fight at the same time?
For the hard difficulty, currently there are no constraints, so it could be all 12 groups together at the same time.
On the normal and easy difficulties a new group won't spawn unless the map has fewer than 14 units. Or, 7 units per side 3 or 4.

Edit: Another question: Should the outlaws and bandits be allied so they won't fight each other? I made them allied on normal and hard.
One more: How big should a single group be after factoring in the number of villages? On easy and normal it is 9. On hard it is unlimited.
vghetto
Posts: 755
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

This is in response to something that was said in the past. Unfortunately I don't remember by who, and I can't find the exact quote.
It was about what to do once you get all of your building projects done, or something like that...

In the upcoming version, I implemented the idea of having to restore the villages so they don't collapse in the winter.

Each year after the winter season, some the farms and hill villages might become damaged by the snow. You'll see that in the spring season.
Get your peasant workers over to those buildings and restore them. Try to do it before the next winter comes around. Otherwise, they may randomly collapse due to the weight of the snow. The collapse happens at random and once or twice per turn through out the following winter season.

This applies to just the farms and hill villages for now. Those are the two that have a ruined terrain image, I couldn't find one for the swamp and water villages.

If this turns out to be a fun idea, I might expand it to the wooden encampments and castles. Basically whatever has a *-ruin.png image.

Edit: I added wooden encampments, castles and the elvish keeps to the things that get destroyed in the winter.
Castles include those ruined stone castles that give an artifact. You can restore them or leave them to collapse on their own.
Elvish keeps cannot be restored. They are likely to be all gone by the end of the first winter. Don't rely on them too much.
Stone castles become unwalkable on rank 4, but ruined castles are not. So if you have a nice perimeter built, expect to get a breach when one of them turns into a ruined stone castle.

The roads get ruined too, but not in the winter. A percentage of the roads that the game starts with will disappear in the following of spring. You'll need to lay new roads. The new roads will also deteriorate over the years.

Edit2: Uploaded version 2.9.9 which implements this post's stuff.
vghetto
Posts: 755
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

Ok, I'm revising the tutorial and changing how it behaves.
Ironically, this involves removing a lot of chunks from the tutorial text which I felt were superfluous.
I decided to break up the tutorial to occur on unit movements instead of dumping everything out on recruitment or building completion. My goal is to explain all of WF features without having the player need to revert to the forum.
I also moved the reports from the library to the keep. I should have done that a long time ago.

I have to give an apology to OTna because almost all of the quest dialog was removed. I know she worked hard on it and I do appreciate that.

The text now is very terse and straight to the point on what needs to be done. using my verry bad engrish.
This means that whatever little story or backstory WF might have had in the past is now completely gone.
I might set the version to 3.0.0 for this one to designate the point of when WF used to make a little bit of sense and to when it went completely bonkers.
vorwi
Posts: 58
Joined: July 3rd, 2018, 10:11 am

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vorwi »

seems like big changes incoming to the Wild Frontiers
vghetto
Posts: 755
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

vorwi wrote: October 13th, 2021, 10:19 am seems like big changes incoming to the Wild Frontiers
Well... not in term of gameplay. Just the text is different.

The new gameplay features are:
* Market carvan can break down en route. Send your peasant worker over to it to fix it.
* Older allies, the ones that have survived over a year, might get passive and turn into a pilgrim.
* new +10 resistance AMLA. As if the unit isn't powerful enough with the other AMLAs :lol:
* Added zombies faction as animal guardians.
* Changed some of the ranking features. The market caravan will start spawning on rank 5 for instance.

That's about it for now. unless anyone has anything else they would like to see.
weewah
Posts: 101
Joined: October 31st, 2019, 7:11 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by weewah »

vghetto wrote: October 13th, 2021, 6:00 pm
* Older allies, the ones that have survived over a year, might get passive and turn into a pilgrim.
Does this mean you can't keep side 9 allies around forever? They will eventually sacrifice themselves on your altar?
vghetto wrote: October 13th, 2021, 6:00 pm
* new +10 resistance AMLA. As if the unit isn't powerful enough with the other AMLAs :lol:
Is this multiplicative or additive? If a loyalist with 20% arcane resistance takes a resistance AMLA, does he now have 30% resist or 28% resist?

Dwarven Arcanister has 50% physical resists, so would it become immune to physical attacks with 5 resistance AMLAs? :O
vghetto
Posts: 755
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

weewah wrote: October 14th, 2021, 9:59 pm Does this mean you can't keep side 9 allies around forever? They will eventually sacrifice themselves on your altar?
Sort of. They'll switch if you have an altar available and the unit has survived for a year or more. Otherwise, they'll keep on fighting.
weewah wrote: October 14th, 2021, 9:59 pm Is this multiplicative or additive? If a loyalist with 20% arcane resistance takes a resistance AMLA, does he now have 30% resist or 28% resist?
Loyalist's 20% becomes 30%. The AMLA has the same effect of buying Ring of Major Resistance.
weewah wrote: October 14th, 2021, 9:59 pm Dwarven Arcanister has 50% physical resists, so would it become immune to physical attacks with 5 resistance AMLAs? :O
Yup. It is possible to get invincible units I guess.
I'll put on limits on picking up the ring, and the number of extra AMLAs.
Maybe 3 for each AMLA (+Damage, +Strike, +Movement, +Resistance). And once per resistance ring.
What do you think?

--------------

Ok, now for something different that I started working on.

I'm introducing a new economy system where there is 0 village income at all times within the main map.
Ofcourse, on starting the campaign, you'll get asked if you want to use that system or stick to the default current one.

The main sources of income will be:
1) By killing any unit. +30 per kill
2) By removing artifacts via the windmill. +30 per artifact
3) By moving the trade caravan which will give you a one time lump sum amount per season. It will count how many villages you have and multiply them by 36.
4) Pilgrims, if you have an altar. No change here, regular behavior.
5) Tavern. No change here either.
6) Sub-missions. No change, regular behavior.

Does this sound like a good idea to have?
weewah
Posts: 101
Joined: October 31st, 2019, 7:11 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by weewah »

vghetto wrote: October 14th, 2021, 11:04 pm
I'll put on limits on picking up the ring, and the number of extra AMLAs.
Maybe 3 for each AMLA (+Damage, +Strike, +Movement, +Resistance). And once per resistance ring.
What do you think?
I don't think the +1 damage AMLA needs to be capped (it's pretty weak anyway), but I agree with the rest.
vghetto wrote: October 14th, 2021, 11:04 pm
I'm introducing a new economy system where there is 0 village income at all times within the main map.
Ofcourse, on starting the campaign, you'll get asked if you want to use that system or stick to the default current one.

The main sources of income will be:
1) By killing any unit. +30 per kill
2) By removing artifacts via the windmill. +30 per artifact
3) By moving the trade caravan which will give you a one time lump sum amount per season. It will count how many villages you have and multiply them by 36.
4) Pilgrims, if you have an altar. No change here, regular behavior.
5) Tavern. No change here either.
6) Sub-missions. No change, regular behavior.

Does this sound like a good idea to have?
The kill bounty seems a bit high. You could exploit it by leaving enemy soulless alive and keep sending them level 0 units to turn into walking corpses, then kill said corpses for 30 gold each.

Maybe make it based on the level of the enemy killed? Like 10 * level gold, and 5 gold for level 0?

Also would enemy leaders still drop bounties when killed?
vghetto wrote: October 14th, 2021, 11:04 pm
3) By moving the trade caravan which will give you a one time lump sum amount per season. It will count how many villages you have and multiply them by 36.
Is this the number of villages when the caravan spawns? Or the number of villages when the caravan reaches the edge? Would players gain more gold by just letting their caravans wait until the end of the season before reaching the map edge?
vghetto
Posts: 755
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

Thanks for the feedback.
weewah wrote: October 15th, 2021, 1:01 pm I don't think the +1 damage AMLA needs to be capped (it's pretty weak anyway), but I agree with the rest.
Done.
weewah wrote: October 15th, 2021, 1:01 pm Maybe make it based on the level of the enemy killed? Like 10 * level gold, and 5 gold for level 0?
Done.
weewah wrote: October 15th, 2021, 1:01 pm Also would enemy leaders still drop bounties when killed?
Yes.
weewah wrote: October 15th, 2021, 1:01 pm Is this the number of villages when the caravan spawns? Or the number of villages when the caravan reaches the edge? Would players gain more gold by just letting their caravans wait until the end of the season before reaching the map edge?
When it reaches the edge. You would be better off laying a path of mushrooms and sending the caravan on turn 36 :lol:

I've changed the per village lump sum gold to 18 instead of 36. Unlocking the dwarves bonus doubles it back to 36.

I'll put out the new version later on today for you guys to test. I tried it out yesterday with the older values and it wasn't bad at all. It made the game more fun for me.

New gold values are as follow.
Village: 18 * number of villages
Kill: 5 * (unit level + 1)
Artifact: 30
vorwi
Posts: 58
Joined: July 3rd, 2018, 10:11 am

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vorwi »

Im not sure how that hunting economy works but since its nice to build up our city and villages no longer provide income so maybe lets give them ability to random recruit for us one level 0 unit per season?(also bounty for killing enemies has to be lower then)
vghetto
Posts: 755
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

vorwi wrote: October 17th, 2021, 2:36 pm Im not sure how that hunting economy works
What are you not sure of?
vorwi wrote: October 17th, 2021, 2:36 pm since its nice to build up our city and villages no longer provide income so maybe lets give them ability to random recruit for us one level 0 unit per season?
I don't get what you mean. You still need to build the farms for unit support and the buildings to advance recruitment.
vorwi wrote: October 17th, 2021, 2:36 pm (also bounty for killing enemies has to be lower then)
By how much? half? I'm not sure about this one.
vorwi
Posts: 58
Joined: July 3rd, 2018, 10:11 am

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vorwi »

vghetto wrote: October 17th, 2021, 7:07 pm
vorwi wrote: October 17th, 2021, 2:36 pm Im not sure how that hunting economy works
What are you not sure of?
nvm by the time i was writing it i didnt try that game mode ;P
vghetto wrote: October 17th, 2021, 7:07 pm
vorwi wrote: October 17th, 2021, 2:36 pm since its nice to build up our city and villages no longer provide income so maybe lets give them ability to random recruit for us one level 0 unit per season?
I don't get what you mean. You still need to build the farms for unit support and the buildings to advance recruitment.
Ye but farms used to give gold and now they dont so you took away some benefits while they still cost the same
vghetto wrote: October 17th, 2021, 7:07 pm
vorwi wrote: October 17th, 2021, 2:36 pm (also bounty for killing enemies has to be lower then)
By how much? half? I'm not sure about this one.
I mean something like 2/3 value of things that weewah said but thats if you apply that 0level units spawning on farms every season
vghetto
Posts: 755
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

vorwi wrote: October 18th, 2021, 9:38 am nvm by the time i was writing it i didnt try that game mode ;P
That's fine. I appreciate the feedback anyway.
vorwi wrote: October 18th, 2021, 9:38 am Ye but farms used to give gold and now they dont so you took away some benefits while they still cost the same
The book on finance bonus can take care of that. I increased the number of bonuses from 2 to 3 on the hard difficulty.
vorwi wrote: October 18th, 2021, 9:38 am I mean something like 2/3 value of things that weewah said but thats if you apply that 0level units spawning on farms every season
If the value should go anywhere, I think it should go up, not down :/
I tried out hunting economy with the latest version on normal, and I think the values were fine as is. I don't think I'll be changing it one way or the other for now.

From my experience of playing WF, I found that spawning free units gets annoying and in the way. That is why I reduced Ardonna's army to 6. And have the sub-missions spawns be recalls if they are found on the recall list.
I won't be giving free level 0 every season. Hunt down more animals to cover the costs :p

-------
The upcoming version, version 3.2.0, will be incompatible with older save files and replays.
That means you'll have to start a new campaign if you download the update.
weewah
Posts: 101
Joined: October 31st, 2019, 7:11 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by weewah »

Here's a hunting economy replay on WF 3.1.0, Wesnoth 1.14.14. Hard difficulty, no mods, no side missions.
WF-A New Beginning replay.gz
(341.2 KiB) Downloaded 32 times
WF-Summer of Dreams replay.gz
(455.13 KiB) Downloaded 33 times
The main takeaway here is that antagonize + hunting economy is too strong: you get to call an additional 6 waves of wild animals, wild guardians, bandits, and outlaws almost right from the beginning, and use the gold/xp from them to quickly boost your army higher so you also summon 6 more orc waves for even more gold/xp.

I originally intended to do the usual thing where you rush build as many villages as possible to support your army, but it turns out that's almost completely unnecessary: your army pays for itself multiple times over as long as you find enemies to kill. Even the book of finance starting bonus, which is usually ridiculously overpowered, didn't really do anything in comparison to the sheer mass of gold from antagonize.

Suggestions:
  • Allow each enemy to be antagonized at most once per rank per season.
  • Randomly delay the summoning of antagonized enemies by up to 3 turns: that way players can't just summon enemies at day or orcs on the very last turn of a season.
  • Add a cap to the amount of gold you can gain via hunting per season. Maybe 200 gold + 20 per village? That way you will still need to build villages, if only so that they can store all the loot you are collecting from hunting enemies. Then you can put the info on how close you are to the hunting gold cap inside the fiefdom report. And maybe add a warning when you get close to the cap (similar to the warning you get when you go below 100 gold).
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