Delfador in HttT should be lvl 4 instead of 5, and Yeti should be lvl 5 instead of just 4

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Kanzzer
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Delfador in HttT should be lvl 4 instead of 5, and Yeti should be lvl 5 instead of just 4

Post by Kanzzer » June 17th, 2019, 2:00 am

This is only a minor pet peeve, but I never understood why Delfador in HttT is designated as a lvl 5 unit when his stats are almost identical to the lvl 4 Great Mage. He should be labeled as lvl 4 instead for the consistencies across the power levels.

Likewise, the neutral monster Yeti in 5p scenario "The Wilderlands" has a 34-2 attack with more than 140 HP - which is almost 2x higher than those of typical lvl 4 units. He doesn't have any negative armor modifiers either, so I think Yeti deserves to be labeled as a level 5 creature instead of 4.

I haven't finished all the campaigns in the game yet, feel free to mention any other units that you feel should have their levels adjusted to be consistent with their stats! Personally I think any units that break the 100HP threshold with mutitple >30dmg attacks should be level 5, since they would outmatch any level 4 units with similar roles.

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Re: Delfador in HttT should be lvl 4 instead of 5, and Yeti should be lvl 5 instead of just 4

Post by Ravana » June 17th, 2019, 6:10 am

Yeti would need to have ranged attack to be level 5, otherwise being source of too free xp.

Kanzzer
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Re: Delfador in HttT should be lvl 4 instead of 5, and Yeti should be lvl 5 instead of just 4

Post by Kanzzer » June 20th, 2019, 2:21 am

Ravana wrote:
June 17th, 2019, 6:10 am
Yeti would need to have ranged attack to be level 5, otherwise being source of too free xp.
I know theoretically ranged units can grind 5xp each time they shoot the Yeti, but wouldn't there always be a threat of 32 damage that can potentially one-shot the shooting unit? That would still make it a big risk to come grind the XP from the Yeti.

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Re: Delfador in HttT should be lvl 4 instead of 5, and Yeti should be lvl 5 instead of just 4

Post by Whiskeyjack » June 20th, 2019, 9:49 am

Kanzzer wrote:
June 20th, 2019, 2:21 am
Ravana wrote:
June 17th, 2019, 6:10 am
Yeti would need to have ranged attack to be level 5, otherwise being source of too free xp.
I know theoretically ranged units can grind 5xp each time they shoot the Yeti, but wouldn't there always be a threat of 32 damage that can potentially one-shot the shooting unit? That would still make it a big risk to come grind the XP from the Yeti.
It is important to bait the yeti into a position with good defenses on adjacent hex tiles and then slow the yeti. That way you can easily grind exp from it without much risk (also: don't place low health units next to him...). You also get the considerable boost of 28 exp for the killing blow!
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Re: Delfador in HttT should be lvl 4 instead of 5, and Yeti should be lvl 5 instead of just 4

Post by EarthCake » June 20th, 2019, 10:23 am

Whiskeyjack wrote:
June 20th, 2019, 9:49 am
It is important to bait the yeti into a position with good defenses on adjacent hex tiles and then slow the yeti. That way you can easily grind exp from it without much risk (also: don't place low health units next to him...). You also get the considerable boost of 28 exp for the killing blow!
Actually 32 EXP.

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Re: Delfador in HttT should be lvl 4 instead of 5, and Yeti should be lvl 5 instead of just 4

Post by Whiskeyjack » June 20th, 2019, 11:15 am

EarthCake wrote:
June 20th, 2019, 10:23 am
Actually 32 EXP.
Oh, right, somehow I substracted fighting exp there :lol:

Thanks for the correction!
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Kanzzer
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Re: Delfador in HttT should be lvl 4 instead of 5, and Yeti should be lvl 5 instead of just 4

Post by Kanzzer » June 20th, 2019, 4:17 pm

Whiskeyjack wrote:
June 20th, 2019, 9:49 am
It is important to bait the yeti into a position with good defenses on adjacent hex tiles and then slow the yeti. That way you can easily grind exp from it without much risk (also: don't place low health units next to him...). You also get the considerable boost of 28 exp for the killing blow!
That is indeed a valid way to survive a Yeti onslaught. I would argue that slow is such a powerful tool against big powerful units in general, and it is not a widely accessible tool either. In the context of The Wilderlands map, unless you play as Rebels, you don't have access to it at the beginning. On that map, I have such harder time taking out the Yeti compared with the Skeletal Dragon, whom is also level 4. Yeti's damage and HP is so ridiculous compared to the Dragon - which is the reason why I started this topic - that it would take way more time and probably would cost you more units to kill the Yeti. Shouldn't the player starting on Yeti's side of the map be rewarded with more XP than the player whom starts on the Skeletal Dragon's side?

Yeti arguably has the highest amount of HP in the game with great damage resistance, only vulnerable to Arcane attacks. 32-2 attack is also up there with highest potential output in the game too. The unit that is most similar to Yeti I can think of is the Dwarvish Arcanister, aka Thursagan in Scepter of Fire campaign, whom is also lvl 4. Thursagan's armor are very close to Yeti's, has better terrain defenses, and a Magical attack; but Yeti's has 142 hp compared to the Dwarf's 54, moves 1 hex faster, and has 32-2 attack. The HP difference is so enormous that he would easily outmatch Thursagan even on the latter's hottest day.

Let's compare Yeti to another lvl 5 unit - the Fire Dragon, whom definitely has better damage output, especially with the Marksman 14-4 fire attack, and has 8 MP compared to Yeti's 5. However, the Fire Dragon defense are identical to those of a typical Drake: vulnerable to Arcane, Cold, and Pierce attacks, and maximum 40% terrain defense. He also has 40 HP less than Yeti too. From this conclusion, I do think that Yeti stats are on par with those of a Fire Dragon.

TL;DR: slow is great at neutralizing Yeti, but is not a widely accessible tool to have, thus attacking him is still a huge risk for factions without slow. Yeti's stats outshine pretty much all the lvl 4 units, and are on par with the lvl 5 Fire Dragon.

Also, what about HttT Delfador? Why is he a level 5 unit when his stats are pretty much identical to those of a Great Mage, which is only lvl 4?

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Re: Delfador in HttT should be lvl 4 instead of 5, and Yeti should be lvl 5 instead of just 4

Post by pauxlo » June 25th, 2019, 10:24 pm

Delfador is level 5 in HttT mostly for flavor reasons. He is an old mage not at his highest power anymore, but doesn't get a level reduction.
(If he had actual level 5 stats, he would kill many units which he currently can nicely weaken for other units to kill and harvest XP.)

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