Should different campaigns be mainframe?

[Temuchin Khan]

Perhaps it is counter-productive to officially include campaigns that are more difficult than Heir to the Throne with every release of Wesnoth. Even Heir to the Throne can be cruel to a beginner. Perhaps South Guard and Tale of Two Brothers (and, of course, HttT) should be released with Wesnoth 1.0 and not Eastern Invasion, Son of the Black Eye, Rise of Wesnoth, and so on. It seems more intuitive to include beginner-level campaigns with the game than to make them available only over the campaign server. Thoughts?

[Temuchin Khan]

I meant to add on or two more polling options. Too late, I guess....

[Elvish_Pillager]

My answer: No, don't add them, just kick SotBE, TDH, and EI over to the campaign server. Especially TDH. (No offense meant to Circon, but TDH is way more unbalanced, and thus less fun, than the vast majority of campaigns, official or unofficial. It isn't complete, either. It simply doesn't make sense, to my mind, for it to reside in the official game.)

[aelius]

I'd vote "no" right now for South Guard, primarily because it isn't finished, and with my teaching schedule right now, I might not get a chance to finish it for a while. That being said, if anybody wants to volunteer to help with a couple of art projects, I'm still fiddling with it. Three scenarios to go, and it's done*.

I'm flattered, though.

- b.

* Except for bug fixes, playtesting, balancing, and some graphics.

[Shadow]

I'd vote "no" right now for South Guard, primarily because it isn't finished, and with my teaching schedule right now, I might not get a chance to finish it for a while. That being said, if anybody wants to volunteer to help with a couple of art projects, I'm still fiddling with it. Three scenarios to go, and it's done*.

I'm flattered, though.

- b.

* Except for bug fixes, playtesting, balancing, and some graphics.

What Art exactly?

[aelius]

Well, I'm not totally in love with my Horseman Commander, and I'm just using a Lance for my Lancer Commander. I'd really love a leadership frame for the Horseman Commander, and any unit graphics at all for the Lancer Commander.

I'd also pay good credits space for somebody who could design a good door image that you could place on a hex to make a prison sort of thing.

Right now I'm using your excellent pikeman in one of my scenarios. I asked and you never said no, so I assumed qui tacet, videtur consentire. Is it o.k. for me to use him? I've credited you in my epilogue and in the scenario WML.

- b.

[Shadow]

No problem I make this stuff just for fun else I wouldn´t have posted the animation in a zip folder

let me just make a try on the horse commander

as I´ve mentioned before somewhere else pm me or make a reguest and I´ll make a try

[Dave]

If someone can produce a campaign that is easy, complete, fun, has a nice storyline, etc, then I'm all for it being added to the official version of the game.

David

[turin]

Basically, no. Not because of the reason you would expect (which would be I am against EI being removed). I just think "Tale of Two Brothers", when I last played it, was basically not a very good campaign, even for a beginner. The plot was boring, the maps large, and the scenarios ultra-easy.

"The South Guard" does not have the same problems. But it shouldn't get in unless aelius wants it in, and from what he said he doesn't... yet.


As for removing EI, TDH, SOTBE, and TROW, why would you do that? Just because you add a campaign doesn't mean you have to remove one.

[aelius]

Let me just make a try on the horse commander.

Thanks!

"The South Guard" does not have the same problems. But it shouldn't get in unless aelius wants it in, and from what he said he doesn't... yet.

I really don't consider my work to be in the same league as EI, ROW and HttT story wise or gameplay wise. There's a lot of polishing I'd want to do before I gave any thought to having South Guard as a mainline campaign. Not to mention reconciling it to the official geography and chronology. If people think it's worth including, I'd love some help with those things.

I'm also not sure I'd want to fool with CVS access and whatnot. Maybe when I've completed all the scenarios I planned, if people think it would be a good campaign to include, we can think about it.

- b.

[turin]

I think South Guard has potential, gameplay wise, to become as good as the other mainstream campaigns. Plotwise, it is a little weak, from what I've seen, but its not like any of the current campaigns are masterpieces. And it is on a smaller scale, as befits a newbie campaign.

Actually, in plot it is somewhat similar to The Eastern Invasion.


I do think that, after you have balanced it, you should try to reconcile it with the current map, etc. usually that can be done by flipping or rotating maps, making directional dialogue changes, and using the current map of wesnoth for showing the movement of the hero.

As for fooling with CVS access, I don't believe its a requirement for having your own campaign; I didnt' for the first month or so EI was in, and I don't think Circon or Benji has access now (might be wrong).

[aelius]

Plotwise, it is a little weak, from what I've seen, but its not like any of the current campaigns are masterpieces. And it is on a smaller scale, as befits a newbie campaign.

The Eastern Invasion was definitely an inspiration for bits of the story. Ideally, the South Guard would occurr either a couple of years before the Eastern Invasion, or concurrently with it. Sort of an Italy to EI's Normandy, so to speak.

I think the first two scenarios are pretty good plot wise. Finding the elves isn't motivated. How does Deoran know to go find the elves? How does he know where they are? I have plans to improve the end of Retaking Westin to fix that.

Near Lake Kerumbar is a little thin, plot wise, and I really don't like the name, but I can't think of anything better.

I do like Choice in the Fog and the Bandit Arc that follows. That's the part I envisioned first, and I think it works pretty well.

I'm still wrestling with how to end the Elven Arc. Right now it ends with Deoran, Ethiliel, and Minister Hylas having killed the Lich, but trapped under his citadel, with the only exit being to the unexplored East. I'm not totally happy with that, but it's a start.

- b.

[Dave]

As for removing EI, TDH, SOTBE, and TROW, why would you do that?

I would recommend that campaign developers consider voluntarily having their campaigns removed from the distribution. The main reason for this is that it will actually give them alot more freedom to develop the campaign at their own pace, rather than having to move with the flow of the developer's decisions.

But...if campaign developers are happy with being at the mercy of developers wrt feature freezes and the like, for the moment I am happy with their campaigns staying. For 1.0 though, unfinished campaigns might not be distributed with the main distribution.

David

[Herkum]

I wish that the campaigns on the server had a little more information. Version information is OK, but it does not help if you don't know what version you downloaded last week or last month.

Could we include an upload date in the campaign information? I would download some the more current ones if I only knew which.

[Mkgego]

Yeah some kind of "something" that would say : Last update : 04.02.05 (something like that)...so you would knew if a new one has come out (if you cant follow the version numbers)...