Zombies:Introduction campaign 2.0

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Aldarisvet
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Re: Zombies:Introduction campaign - 7 scenarios in one map

Post by Aldarisvet »

Thank you much for the replay and feedback!
First of all, I must say that you got immense luck. Look, +31% inflicted and -19% taken is not something that happens often. See the screenshot. I hope you would not get so much luck in other attempts. But about using bats at this scenario you was right. Actually this is the only scenario where you can afford recruiting many bats. Bats are essential to fight against mages here because any mage must be deactivated asap before he makes a big harm, so you need the most moblie units. Still bats are vulnerable to impact and mages have staffs in melee.
The_Gnat wrote:I am just starting another of the Zombies:Introduction scenarios and noticed that the "peaceful intellectuals" option at the start of the campaign just makes it so you fight goblins. You probably know this and have just not implemented it yet but i thought to mention it anyway. :D
...
After playing this, i think that in the goblin scenario there wasn't enough goblins (it was mainly naga's i fought) and i think it would be good to put in some other goblins (plenty of people have made cool goblins like this)
This scenario is reminiscense of Swamplings campaign. The goblin leader has 'intelligent' trait what is quite untypical for goblins and also he speaks smart. He says that he is a descendant of some legendary goblin. The faction called "peaceful intellectuals" because this is the only faction that wants to avoid conflict (and also its a humor, no one would expect smart goblin under this title). The faction is not named in so way you would expect to fight goblins, so it is logical that you fight not only goblins there.
The_Gnat wrote: Also when playing the law enforcers, Light Switch says "...Peasants should dig in their mud and do not poke their dirty noses...". I'm no grammar expert ;) but i think it should say "...Peasants should dig in their mud and do not poke their noses..." with the do removed.
Yea, I'll fix it, thank you.

The_Gnat wrote: But about the Law Enforcers: I was expecting some more loyalists because of the name but i only fought Merman Spearmen, and Mages. It doesn't have to be changed but i think for the "law enforcers" i would prefer loyalist spearman,bowman,and others... (just an opinion though)
Well, a Merman Fighter, a Mage and a Fencer - all from loyalists faction in fact. The choice of units for all factions is very elaborate. Here AI has units with pierce, fire, impact and blade damage. Same for other factions. So you need to use different types of zombies to counter different types of attacks.
The_Gnat wrote: Also i won the scenario in 12 turns (on hard) with the bat strategy again.
Actually it was 14 but still VERY fast. Wouldnt be so fast if not so immense luck. Next time look into statistics :D
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Re: Zombies:Introduction campaign - 7 scenarios in one map

Post by The_Gnat »

Aldarisvet wrote:Thank you much for the replay and feedback!
First of all, I must say that you got immense luck. Look, +31% inflicted and -19% taken is not something that happens often. See the screenshot. I hope you would not get so much luck in other attempts.


Not at all suttley saying you thought i used save and load ^_^ and I believe your actually rooting for the ai player :lol: (thats ok i don't mind)
Aldarisvet wrote:But about using bats at this scenario you was right. Actually this is the only scenario where you can afford recruiting many bats. Bats are essential to fight against mages here because any mage must be deactivated asap before he makes a big harm, so you need the most moblie units. Still bats are vulnerable to impact and mages have staffs in melee.

Actually it was 14 but still VERY fast. Wouldnt be so fast if not so immense luck. Next time look into statistics :D
Thanks Aldarisvet (i have now realized about the statistic menu (s key) ) :D ! And yeah i was pretty lucky especially that one turn with that fencer who has 70% defense!!!! :shock:

I'll give the bat strategy a try on some more scenarios and post their replays also :D

EDIT: also playing some more i think it is good that in the scenarios the units the enemy recruits are all a combination so that not all units have the same weapon type (i personally still would prefer fighting some spearmen/bowman :P but i think you've done a good job)
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Re: Zombies:Introduction campaign - 7 scenarios in one map

Post by The_Gnat »

Hi, i have begun the scenario versus hired assassins and have noticed in the dialog that the bandit first says: You are quick-witted boy, don't you? Yes., It should probably instead say: You are a quick-witted boy, aren't you? Yes.

Then velender says: For me that 'Hidden Powers' dreams too much, It should probably instead say either: For me that 'Hidden Powers' is too much to give up, or maybe: For me i dream about 'Hidden Powers' , or maybe: That 'Hidden Power' is too much for me to give up, or something like that... :mrgreen: i'm no grammer expert but the reason i suggest changing this is because i don't quite understand what velender is saying (is he saying that the hidden power is too much for him, too much to give up, something he dreams about?)

Also i noticed that the Orcish Nightblade didn't have a attack icon for his kick weapon, i found this somewhere, would this work:
kickersfoot.png
kickersfoot.png (6.93 KiB) Viewed 6183 times
I will post more as i play the scenario!! :D

EDIT: Ok i have finished this scenario! :D Wow, this one was a lot harder than the last (obviously you were right about the bat strategy). In fact i didn't use the bat strategy on the scenario in the end. I do admit i did use save in load some this time as this scenario was quite hard, in fact i played this more than once and have a few replays where i end up losing :oops: In the end the villages are very important because they helped me with the enemy only buying 14 units (i only bought 13 but lost 15 ^_^ thanks for the tip about statistics)

Finally i ended up using a strategy were i ganged up on whatever enemy they sent at me and killed them one at a time which gave me a bunch of units through plague. Overall it was lots of fun playing (and even losing a few times)! :D I have attached the replay were i won.

Thanks Alderisvet!

I was thinking you also might want me to test it without save and load for analysis purposes so i will play another scenario without saving and loading any :mrgreen:
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Aldarisvet
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Re: Zombies:Introduction campaign - 7 scenarios in one map

Post by Aldarisvet »

Hi, Gnat.
Well, you finished it with +57% inflicted and -12% taken. This even more unfair to AI then in the previous replay. I would say that with such style of playing you do not even see what these scenarios are tactically about.
I recommend you to reduce difficulty to Normal and to play without reloads at all. Use Velendar's leadership and healing abilities actively, try to level up him with minimum possible risk. In Hard you are not supposed to win without using Velendar. Still this is not about Velendar but about using different type of zombies on proper terrain against proper ememies. Dwarf zombies on mountain, saurians on swamp, woses on forest etc. In the very beginning at Hard you in fact can only defend.

By "For me that 'Hidden Powers' dreams too much" I meant that Velendar told that from his point of view assassin's employers are just empty dreamers if they think they can retrive that artifact from him.

I will fix other issues you mentioned, thank you.
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Re: Zombies:Introduction campaign - 7 scenarios in one map

Post by The_Gnat »

Hi Alderisvet, thanks for responding, yeah i'll give it another go (obviously hard is a quite a bit too hard for me :P ) and post how it works out when i finish :D (about the hidden powers, i understand now, but maybe to be a little clearer he could say "for me that 'hidden powers' show you dream too much" or something a little easier to understand that he is saying the assassin is the one dreaming too much)
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Re: Zombies:Introduction campaign - 7 scenarios in one map

Post by Aldarisvet »

A minor update for Zombies:Introduction uploaded to the 1.12 server, it is 1.01 version now.
List of changes:
1). Added Russian Translation.
2). Added excerpt from "Descent of the goddess Ishtar into the Lower World" mentioned earlier in this thread as the epigraph to the campaign. It was not from 'Saga of Gilgamesh' actually.
3). Fixed a bug with multiplicated 'undead leadership' ability (the reason was - should give the name of the leadership only in the first [leadership] tag, same bug for Velendar still exists in 'A Whim of Fate'). Fixed wrong description in 'undead healing' ability (was +6 instead +9, same still exists in AWOF). Fixed grammar mistakes mentioned by The_Gnat.

I still badly need a feedback/replays, especially from experienced players, and especially for the scenario 2.
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Re: Zombies:Introduction campaign - 7 scenarios in one map

Post by Aldarisvet »

I finally got a feedback and replays from one Russian player. It appeared that because of some recall bug in scenario 2 Velendar controlled by AI was recruiting only 1-2 zombies or even none per turn instead of full 5. I never saw that bug before because I was testing scenario 2 separately all the time. Seems that AI instead of recruiting was trying first to recall levelled zombies from the scenario 1 that player advanced in that scenario while playing on Velendar side and every turn AI failed to do that for unknown reason (I used custom units copied from mainline for zombie variations so probably that is the reason?) so AI had only 1-2 spots left to recruit.
I thought it would be funny if a player would face the very same zombies he levelled up himself but never checked how it works myself. Shame on me because it means that for all recent months scenario 2 was in fact unplayable! Of course it is easy to play vs AI if it almost do not recruit. So to fix that bug I just cleared all the recall list. The player cannot face advanced zombies he levelled himself now, but it is for good because it is not very reasonably to recall level1 zombies for 20 gp whenever it's price is only 13 gp, it is much better just to recruit 3 level0 zombies for 24 gp.
Also there was quite a funny bug in the situation when a player was using teleported Silver mages to finish the scenario 1, so in scenario 2 AI was recalling Silver mages alongside with zombies. An unexpected punishment for cheating in the previous scenario.

Anycase the code below at the start event of scenario 2 easely fixed both bugs.

Code: Select all

       [kill]
       x,y=recall,recall
       [/kill] 
The campaign hence updated to 1.02 version, fixed bugs mentioned above in this version and also some grammar mistakes in Russian translation, thanks to Russian player Scaramush.

I still badly need a feedback/replays, especially from experienced players, and especially for the scenario 2.
Last edited by Aldarisvet on February 26th, 2017, 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Zombies:Introduction campaign - 7 scenarios in one map

Post by gfgtdf »

Aldarisvet wrote:but it is for good because it is not very reasonably to recall level1 zombies for 20 gp whenever it's price is only 13 gp, it is much better just to recruit 3 level0 zombies for 24 gp.
At lest in 1.13 it should be possible to change the recall costs on a per-unit setting, do you can liek changew the recall costs for those lvl1 copses to 11 gold for example.
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.
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Re: Zombies:Introduction campaign - 7 scenarios in one map

Post by Aldarisvet »

gfgtdf wrote:
Aldarisvet wrote:but it is for good because it is not very reasonably to recall level1 zombies for 20 gp whenever it's price is only 13 gp, it is much better just to recruit 3 level0 zombies for 24 gp.
At lest in 1.13 it should be possible to change the recall costs on a per-unit setting, do you can liek changew the recall costs for those lvl1 copses to 11 gold for example.
Oh, thank you that you reminded me about 1.13, I updated the campaign there too ;)

Yea, I know that it is possible to change the cost of recall but I find it can be a bit strange and confusing for the player to see recalling AI (the player can start thinking that AI can recruit lvl1 zombies). You know, classically AI never recalls. Also if I let the AI to recall lvl1 zombies for 13 gbp, the beginning of the scenario could be really too hard for the player. The scenario2 is never tested for the moment because as it appeared, it was never working properly before.
From the other side, again, it can be a real fun to play vs very units you levelled up yourself before. So I don't know. Anycase it is impossible with that recall bug I had. Why AI is unable to recall a zombie from the previous scenario (but he was able to recall a Silver Mage), that looks strange.
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Re: Zombies:Introduction campaign - 7 scenarios in one map

Post by Konrad2 »

Velendar Level 2:
The form of the skull atop of Velendars staff has changed. With the upgraded staff Veledar has gained the ability to heal zombies around him for 6HP, and the leadership ability over soulless zombies. (...)

EDIT:
Nature Calls
The victory and lose conditions end with a period, which is unsual.

Victory:
Force Velendar to surrender

Neither of my leaders can recruit. ._.
Last edited by Konrad2 on January 6th, 2019, 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Zombies:Introduction campaign - 7 scenarios in one map

Post by Aldarisvet »

Thank you for the feedback!
Konrad2 wrote: January 6th, 2019, 8:14 am The form of the skull atop of Velendars staff has changed. With the upgraded staff Veledar has gained the ability to heal zombies around him for 6HP, and the leadership ability over soulless zombies. (...)
This is the text created 2,5 yaars ago, when I was making mistakes often )
I had first two parts of the campaign checked by Faelord (native speaker) but seems he missed this fragment because it is not in the dialog.
Konrad2 wrote: January 6th, 2019, 8:14 am either of my leaders can recruit. ._.
I'm sorry, but you are wrong ))) . You should read objectives more carefully.
Radna and Svarga being main heroes cannot recruit. Level1 snake, rat and spider being secondary heroes (silver crowns are above them) can recruit level0 snakes, rats and spiders correspondingly.
It was my new 3-level unit system.
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Re: Zombies:Introduction campaign - 7 scenarios in one map

Post by Konrad2 »

Oops. Oh well, I didn't need them anyway. xD
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Re: Zombies:Introduction campaign - 7 scenarios in one map

Post by Konrad2 »

How about renaming the campaign to "Zombies: Introduction"?
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Re: Zombies:Introduction campaign - 7 scenarios in one map

Post by Aldarisvet »

Konrad2 wrote: March 2nd, 2019, 2:31 pm How about renaming the campaign to "Zombies: Introduction"?
It is Zombies:Introduction, is not it?
I think I am going to continue this campaign so I will have to rename it. The second scenario is using very original tactical mechanics and it can be used further. I need some good way for Radna to get experience without fighting.
Meanwhile I would be happy to see anyone passed the second scenario on Hard because it is really not something trivial.
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Re: Zombies:Introduction campaign - 7 scenarios in one map

Post by Konrad2 »

I think the additional whitespace I suggested matters. :)
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ZI-Nature Calls replay.gz
I don't think this is what you are looking for, as I didn't recruit at all.
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