Green swamp, Aldril and Brown Hills

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Blymurkla
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Green swamp, Aldril and Brown Hills

Post by Blymurkla »

Perhaps I peculiar topic for a first post, but I'm looking on the map and reading up on Wesnoth.

I was wondering about the entry on Green Swamps
Geography of Wesnoth wrote: Green Swamp: Large swamp in the heart of the wilds of Wesnoth, south of Aldril. It receives drainage from the Brown Hills and feeds into the Great River. (Not shown on the main map.)
I'm piecing together from this and other mentions that Brown Hills are those drawn out between Aldril and Dan Tonk. This means that Green Swamp is part of a river basin that begins in Brown Hill, flows south-west (where the flatter terrain, I suppose, gives rise to the swamps) and then turns sharply north. The water passes to the east of Aldril, missing the Bay of Pearls by a hairs-witdh, flowing perhaps through Grey Woods and then reaching The Great River, somewhere around Carcyn.

This is not an implausible way for water to flow - one need to look no further than to the Danube for a river which similarly »miss« to take the shortest route to the sea. But it is still noteworthy, which leads to my reason for starting this thread.

In which campaing(s) is Green Swamps featured?

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zookeeper
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Re: Green swamp, Aldril and Brown Hills

Post by zookeeper »

It's not featured in any mainline campaign, but I don't know whether it is in any add-ons. The swamp was visible in some really old maps [1] [2], but it's not appeared in newer ones. The mentions of it still exist in places like that wiki page, so I suppose the swamp canonically exists, but there aren't really any details about it.

There could also be other small rivers for example from the Dulatus Hills which would flow into it.
Blymurkla wrote:I'm piecing together from this and other mentions that Brown Hills are those drawn out between Aldril and Dan Tonk.
Yes.
Blymurkla wrote:This means that Green Swamp is part of a river basin that begins in Brown Hill, flows south-west (where the flatter terrain, I suppose, gives rise to the swamps) and then turns sharply north. The water passes to the east of Aldril, missing the Bay of Pearls by a hairs-witdh, flowing perhaps through Grey Woods and then reaching The Great River, somewhere around Carcyn.
I don't know much about geography, but why would it need to turn back north? Surely it could continue to flow for example to Lake Aelin (not named on the 1.12 map), or to the ocean somewhere south of Blackwater Port. Or couldn't a wetland like that simply have no major outflow?

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Blymurkla
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Re: Green swamp, Aldril and Brown Hills

Post by Blymurkla »

Thanks for the answer!
zookeeper wrote:
Blymurkla wrote:This means that Green Swamp is part of a river basin that begins in Brown Hill, flows south-west (where the flatter terrain, I suppose, gives rise to the swamps) and then turns sharply north. The water passes to the east of Aldril, missing the Bay of Pearls by a hairs-witdh, flowing perhaps through Grey Woods and then reaching The Great River, somewhere around Carcyn.
I don't know much about geography, but why would it need to turn back north? Surely it could continue to flow for example to Lake Aelin (not named on the 1.12 map), or to the ocean somewhere south of Blackwater Port. Or couldn't a wetland like that simply have no major outflow?
Well, it doesn’t need to turn back north - but it does. That is stated in the wiki section I quoted. Any of the alternatives you mention would be equally reasonable but I suppose canon is canon (although, I'm entirely new here, so I don't know).

And, well, nitpicking: a wetland doesn’t need to have a major outflow. You could have several smaller ones. Or you could have none, the swamps being a "dead end" where water escapes buy evaporation and ground water. Both these are fairly unlikely, however, if the swamp receive water from an area larger than the swamp itself - and the wiki states that the Brown Hills drain into Green Swamp. In such a case, I find it more likely to find one or several rivers/streams flowing down from the hills, spreading out in flatter terrain below (thus forming the swamp) and then draining of in a single river.

gnombat
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Re: Green swamp, Aldril and Brown Hills

Post by gnombat »

zookeeper wrote:It's not featured in any mainline campaign
In The Rise of Wesnoth, Lord Logalmier says, "I decree that you should be made to fight the Dragon of the Green Swamp and its saurian minions."

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zookeeper
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Re: Green swamp, Aldril and Brown Hills

Post by zookeeper »

Blymurkla wrote:
zookeeper wrote:I don't know much about geography, but why would it need to turn back north? Surely it could continue to flow for example to Lake Aelin (not named on the 1.12 map), or to the ocean somewhere south of Blackwater Port. Or couldn't a wetland like that simply have no major outflow?
Well, it doesn’t need to turn back north - but it does. That is stated in the wiki section I quoted. Any of the alternatives you mention would be equally reasonable but I suppose canon is canon (although, I'm entirely new here, so I don't know).
Oh, right, I skipped over that bit. :doh: Now, that is certainly a detail that makes very little sense. In fact, I had already removed the whole Green Swamp entry from the in-game encyclopedia earlier this year (in the development branch, not 1.12) because it's not on the map or referred to anywhere, but hadn't done the same for the wiki. I don't see a reason to remove it from the wiki either, but I'm about 99% certain that the part about feeding to the Great River can't be what was even originally intended, so I've went and removed those details.

Generally, the geography isn't specified in that level of detail. For example, in this case I don't think knowing whether there's any notable outflow from the swamp would really help or hinder the creation of new campaigns; if for some reason someone needs to establish that fact in their campaign, then they get to decide and go with whatever best fits their needs.
gnombat wrote:In The Rise of Wesnoth, Lord Logalmier says, "I decree that you should be made to fight the Dragon of the Green Swamp and its saurian minions."
True, there is that! Good catch.

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Xara
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Re: Green swamp, Aldril and Brown Hills

Post by Xara »

zookeeper wrote:It's not featured in any mainline campaign, but I don't know whether it is in any add-ons. The swamp was visible in some really old maps [1] [2], but it's not appeared in newer ones. The mentions of it still exist in places like that wiki page, so I suppose the swamp canonically exists, but there aren't really any details about it.
The style of first map looks great. Can maps of the same style be included in the mainline, for alternative themes perhaps?
It pronounces Sha'ha, not Zara.

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zookeeper
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Re: Green swamp, Aldril and Brown Hills

Post by zookeeper »

Xara wrote:The style of first map looks great. Can maps of the same style be included in the mainline, for alternative themes perhaps?
No, because there aren't any.

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