The Beautiful Child

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Dugi
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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Dugi » October 31st, 2014, 9:33 pm

Fixed the dialogue mistakes, thanks for reporting.

The enemies fleeing when the lieutenant turns coat aren't random. In fact, it's pretty deterministic. Those who stood close to him (distance 1-3 hexes) will flee, the others will not.

dabber
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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by dabber » November 1st, 2014, 1:45 pm

The lieutenant and fleeing dialogue problem is two fold.
1) What is meant by "Brothers"? To me, it means the Mages, but nothing about the lieutenant dying necessarily causes Mages to flee. If by "Brothers" you mean any bad guy, then I would write something different than "Brothers". Or maybe I just need more background earlier. Or maybe I'm just misinterpreting something obvious.
2) If the unit(s) fleeing is based upon distance from the lieutenant, then it is possible for no one to flee, but the dialogue still triggers. It also means the difficulty changes massively based upon how many bad guys are near the lieutenant when he dies. On Hard, the start of this is very difficult (good), but I'd like some clue that taking out the lieutenant is extra important. Alternatively, what happens if the lieutenant is the last one killed?

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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Dugi » November 1st, 2014, 2:12 pm

1) I thought it was obvious. It was meant to refer the the Brothers of Light (sometimes shortened to Brothers, sometimes insultingly altered to Brothers of Larceny), that was supposed to be an order of White Mages (pretty much all White Mages belong there). Did you read properly the dialogues in the intro?

2) Well, maybe I should mention something like 'if we persuade their leader somehow, seeing him turn his coat might make some nearby enemies give up'. Are you sure that the dialogue triggers even if nobody escapes? Because it was supposed to tag a few units as going to flee, make one of them tell it before they run away - if nobody runs away, there is nobody to tell that line (who tells if it it's told by somebody?).

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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by dabber » November 1st, 2014, 2:14 pm

Really need some explanation of waypoints. Probably when you step on one.

In Farborough, after beating off the initial enemies, I head north. One ambush appears quickly, that works. Going further north, I trigger this dialogue: "There is a forest. We should be careful, they might have prepared an ambush there. We might avoid the area through the hills, but some bandits might be waiting there." That then triggers a choice, but after making each choice, you come back to the same question/answer menu. After selecting each one, I think that one should be removed from the menu.

The scenario objective doesn't give a good idea of what to do next. "Prevent the Brothers from fleeing north" I have accomplished, but the scenario does not end. So far it ends when I go to a map edge or a waypoint, but I don't feel I have information on why I should pick either one. I don't think the names available are mentioned in earlier dialogue either.
(Yes, this is a poor quality post ... have to chase the 2 year old now)

PS I'll look at the fleeing thing again.

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Dugi
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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Dugi » November 1st, 2014, 2:29 pm

The dialogues with options that turn you back don't stop showing options you've already seen because you might want to re-read them again. I've seen this behaviour in many video games.

I'll add some more explanation to the behaviour of waypoints.

The scenario objectives in free roam mode are not scenario-specific, you will encounter them when in the area north from Farborough. By the way, you haven't prevented them from fleeing north, you have just defeated the party they sent there to wait for you and try to stop you.

And by the way, thanks for the feedback.

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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by dabber » November 1st, 2014, 4:39 pm

1) The Mages left the tavern, but they did not appear to be fleeing when they did so. They were too cowardly to physically arrest Rimaru, but the dialogue does not feel like they fled from him. I just went through it again and still feel that way.
2) Looks like did it correctly. Or at least I cannot duplicate a problem. If no one flees when the lieutenant dies, nothing is said about fleeing.

In Farborough, I would re-word the main scenario objective to "Catch the Brothers as they head north". Or maybe "Chase". In the context of that scenario, you cannot "prevent" them from going north.

Crooked Ravine Waypoint lets me stay, or go to Crooked Ravine ... which is here.

Crooked Ravine:
Defeating the last Mage (the girl who converts) did not end the scenario. But then the scenario ended when I hit "end turn", even though there are still 4 enemy soldiers fighting me. I'd like to have the victory trigger when the last Mage dies, even if it is her, although that might be tough. But mainly I would prefer the remaining soldiers fled (at least one should speak a line about the Mages being killed and the soldiers had better flee).

Strategy dialogue. "There will be risky, there can be bandits, more ambushers, or other problems". First word should be "that".
"We might encounter some animals, but that should be a far lesser trouble than human squads". Should be "that should be less trouble".
"Or search the area for traces and learn where are they gone". Should be "learn where they went".


Generally, your ambushes are triggered by movement along the roads, but not by moving to the locations where the ambushers appear. Several times I have moved the elf through woods to check for an ambush, find no one there, then moved a human along the road, only to have enemies appear where the elf just searched. So I took to moving everyone slowly through the woods, except one person who walks up the road to trigger the attack. If I guessed right on the ambush location, most of party has the ambush ambushed, but it still feels logically wrong. In the simplest case, I'd like you to expand the trigger range of the ambush to include the locations where the ambushers appear.

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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Dugi » November 1st, 2014, 7:43 pm

Fixed the dialogue errors. By the way, are you a native speaker of English language?

1) He told them to go away when they wanted to capture him and they left. It wasn't really an escape, but it was clear that they are going to avoid encounters with him before getting reinforcements, so it could be called fleeing IMO (and of course, Rimaru wants to call it fleeing because it makes him feel like a badass).

3) If you use a waypoint to go to the same scenario as you are in, the scenario will be reset (like if you re-entered it), it might be useful sometimes.

4) The victory in Crooked Ravine starts quite unexpectedly indeed, so I changed it so that it when the last of the mages dies or deserts. If something fails, it will fire when you hit next turn. If some soldiers remain, they'll tell that there is no point in fighting anymore and will give up.

5) The ambushes aren't triggered when a unit moves into the place where they appear because that would be almost certainly fatal for the unit that activates them (we need to abandon realism here a bit).

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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by ballislife15 » November 16th, 2014, 9:47 pm

Im on the scenario where you can buy stuff right before you enter ziggurat and whenever I buy the exterminators knives it gives me a chilling touch.

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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Dugi » November 17th, 2014, 9:17 am

Thank you for reporting. The fix will be a part of the following version. If you want the fix immediately, you can use the file I attached, use it to replace the file with the same name in this add-on's directory in your userdata folder (read here how to find it if you need). Note that you will have to re-enter that area to update your save file as well.
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Ziggurat_Town.cfg
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Eugen
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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Eugen » November 24th, 2014, 6:32 pm

Bug report: There's no prestart choosing of the protagonist's class (swordsman, duelist, longbowman, sword mage etc.) on 1.12. The game automatically chooses swordsman.

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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Dugi » November 24th, 2014, 8:38 pm

This is strange. Changing the event's name to start fixes it, but that isn't exactly the solution I'd like. I'll have to ask around.

Anyway, because this is quite serious, I uploaded the fix to the 1.12 server (together with the fix mentioned in the post above yours).

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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Darkon » December 6th, 2014, 11:40 pm

awesome work and history, a good contribution for the past legend; how about a tale about the first post-apocalipse group that fight with demons and the first ''city'' or small town? the town of the invencibles? sounds like a superhero campaing

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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Dugi » December 7th, 2014, 6:39 pm

Thanks for words of approval.

I am not currently planning anything for the group that remained with the demons, because a campaign with only two units on your side isn't quite suitable for wesnoth, rather for an action game. It's a good door for the case if I wanted to create an action game, though. Also, I don't have many ideas how to set up a story there.

If you encountered no bugs, I will name this campaign complete, fine?

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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Darkon » December 9th, 2014, 5:15 am

well, why do you say that only remained 2 units? in this history says ''the most great heroes will become part in the crussade of gods to fight the demons'' so i was thinking on something of that tipe, and, in the legend of invencibles, there was several history characters that appears in the originals histories of wesnoth that are inmortal too and (because i dont remember their names) can have a little chapter or side-stories too, in the matter of bugs, i have none

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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Dugi » December 9th, 2014, 9:31 am

well, why do you say that only remained 2 units? in this history says ''the most great heroes will become part in the crussade of gods to fight the demons'' so i was thinking on something of that tipe
A lot of the contents of the books found in the last scenario was quite distorted, many details were changed, some details were added. It is to create the impression that a lot of time passed since the events happened. This also has the advantage that I can write some lore and can change it slightly afterwards without breaking anything.

The part telling that the greatest of heroes will join the gods in their fight is a recyclation of Valhalla from Norse mythology. I haven't decided whether this is 'real' or just a myth. If it wasn't a myth, most likely they would employ the heroes only if the situation gets really bad, otherwise they would not waste them if their supply is limited. But yes, a campaign could be added here if I made up a suitable story.
there was several history characters that appears in the originals histories of wesnoth that are inmortal too and (because i dont remember their names) can have a little chapter or side-stories too
Which ones do you mean? If you can't remember the names, just explain what did they do, where do they come from, which unit types they were etc.
in the matter of bugs, i have none
Thanks.

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