Level 0 units is important for campaign!

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Elven
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Level 0 units is important for campaign!

Post by Elven »

Hello everyone,

I know, this is not exactly a campaign, just a small thinking process. Well, usually it will be great for (new) campaign creators, if there should be a level 0 units - so a hero can develop right from the start. For example:

- young elf, who can become elvish fighter or elvish archer (or maybe their horseman)
- young orc, same as before

We allready have peasants, who are great for such purpose. Of course it is possible to add a young elf/orc/drake etc. to a campaign, but i believe it would be wonderful if such units are allready done and available in default instalation. Not recruitable in scenarios, only usable in campaigns, where are such units enabled.

Northern Rebirth or Dead Water are good examples for campaigns starting with level 0 units. So... what do you think about it? And what can we do to add such units into mainline?

About elvish level 0 unit for example, the easy way is to change picture for elvish fighter and giving it lower stats. But no idea who will add it into mainline. Of course if he will do it.

Simple campaign with this concept might be something like an old warrior is dying and his son has to lead others - but because he is young and not experienced, he has to become a warrior first, or gain respect.
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Raijer
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Re: Level 0 units is important for campaign!

Post by Raijer »

As far as i know, young elves already exist. I think shadowm used them in IftU. From what i remember, you can recruit them in the second scenario. They can become fighters, archers, or hunters.
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Heindal
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Re: Level 0 units is important for campaign!

Post by Heindal »

Well,

with level 0 units in a campaign, the storyteller allows the player to play an underdog, which prevails and is able to advance quickly. I think that is what most people like about level 0, because this weakness allows to connect with the characters/protagonists. This underdog aspect can be seen in many sucessful campaigns, where you can play either goblins, peasants or other weak units, who have to prevail against a superiour force. As it is a matter of minutes to create such a unit (without animations and new graphics respectively), its most likely that there will never be such thing as level 0 unit for each race in mainline.

This is also a balancing question, as a level 0 unit receives higher leadership bonus, gets more experience in fights and is usually cheap.
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ChaosRider
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Re: Level 0 units is important for campaign!

Post by ChaosRider »

Problem with 0 lvls in normal game when ai have them in recruit list (with other 1 lvls) is that he prefer to recruit 0 lvls :D... As for campaigns it could be good to give them some special abilities (like a farming which after a few actions give you gold).
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Elven
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Re: Level 0 units is important for campaign!

Post by Elven »

Heindal wrote:Well,

with level 0 units in a campaign, the storyteller allows the player to play an underdog, which prevails and is able to advance quickly. I think that is what most people like about level 0, because this weakness allows to connect with the characters/protagonists. This underdog aspect can be seen in many sucessful campaigns, where you can play either goblins, peasants or other weak units, who have to prevail against a superiour force. As it is a matter of minutes to create such a unit (without animations and new graphics respectively), its most likely that there will never be such thing as level 0 unit for each race in mainline.

This is also a balancing question, as a level 0 unit receives higher leadership bonus, gets more experience in fights and is usually cheap.
no level 0 units for each race in classic single/multiplayer? Okay, that makes sense. But adding them list such as this should be great i think: http://units.wesnoth.org/trunk/mainline ... html#Elves
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Re: Level 0 units is important for campaign!

Post by SFault »

Raijer wrote:As far as i know, young elves already exist. I think shadowm used them in IftU. From what i remember, you can recruit them in the second scenario. They can become fighters, archers, or hunters.
Yes, IftU has elvish civilian which can advance to to swordman, archer or shaman depending on the gender. I have also used elf kid in an unpublished campaign. Also, in unpublished campaign I had dwarven blacksmith for level 0.

Maybe I should make graphics for level 0 orc too...
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Battlecruiser_Venca
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Re: Level 0 units is important for campaign!

Post by Battlecruiser_Venca »

Take a look around addons, there are many probably useful L0s over there.
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Re: Level 0 units is important for campaign!

Post by James_The_Invisible »

I too find fighting with level 0 units interesting. Actually, in my campaign For Power you can recruit just peasants and woodsmen at the very beginning but you have a few level 1 units (including the leader and a hero unit). And yes, there are already some level 0 units in UMC. I remember mage apprentices and some Civilian (advancing to Fencer/Thief) from "Anya of Wilshire".
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Re: Level 0 units is important for campaign!

Post by ChaosRider »

You should guys start treat main era as a normal addon, which have own authors and whose you can say about own plans but they dont have to add it, if you are looking for 0 lvls you should check other addons, or just create your own. Ofcourse both that option require will of you, but its easier to say: "Hey i want this, i want that, because i have a great idea!!!". So as earlier, dont wait for others to do your idea, do it by your own.

"Maybe I should make graphics for level 0 orc too..." - yeah, feel free, if you want i could ask for some to MWC addon for faction which have them less than other one. It would be nice if they had also animation (got there already 0 lvl orcs, but there is enought avaible 1 lvls without 0 lvl form to pick one for own art training :]).
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Re: Level 0 units is important for campaign!

Post by WanderingHero »

Fate of a Princess has young elves as a level 0
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Re: Level 0 units is important for campaign!

Post by Ravana »

You should guys start treat main era as a normal addon
That is great point, though for that era it doesnt really work since it is dependency for too many other things.
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Re: Level 0 units is important for campaign!

Post by ChaosRider »

You should Ravana for future quote my whole sentence, not only part because thx this it loses context. By saying that they should treat main era as a addon i mean that:
- authors of it dont have to add any idea only because someone said about it (i dont mean to be quite when you have some idea, but you better prepare for displeasure of others for your idea. Most players likes to be mad for authors if they dont accept the idea like it was something really special for them... About that im talking as a author of my own addons.)
- most players dont think about minuses which can show up after adding such a idea because they thought mostly about the advantages
- and as earlier, its easier to say others pls do this, do that, but its harder to do it yourself.
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Re: Level 0 units is important for campaign!

Post by Elven »

well, your words are smart. And I agree. Also, creating an elf level 0 unit can be a bit of a problem for campaigns. For example, I need a weak elvish unit without ranged attack, only sword/dagger/fists etc. But someone add a bow and it can change playability of an important scenario in addon campaign. So... add 2 level 0 elf units? That will come with a very nice chaos...
ChaosRider wrote:You should Ravana for future quote my whole sentence, not only part because thx this it loses context. By saying that they should treat main era as a addon i mean that:
- authors of it dont have to add any idea only because someone said about it (i dont mean to be quite when you have some idea, but you better prepare for displeasure of others for your idea. Most players likes to be mad for authors if they dont accept the idea like it was something really special for them... About that im talking as a author of my own addons.)
- most players dont think about minuses which can show up after adding such a idea because they thought mostly about the advantages
- and as earlier, its easier to say others pls do this, do that, but its harder to do it yourself.
Creator of Greenie knižnica and Greenie Linux and Wesnoth unofficial LiveCD; Slovak/Czech translator and creator of The Three Elves, The Final Exam and Unite the Clans.
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