War of the Jewel: SP Campaign, 1.11+ (Feedback & Reviews)

[Goulven]

After really enjoying a Song of Fire, I also had a lot of fun going through War of the Jewel. However, at the end of this campain, many things remain unresolve. Is it your plan to have the third part of your trilogy pick things up were War of the Jewel ends? Will the same heros be part of the story?

[revansurik]

After really enjoying a Song of Fire, I also had a lot of fun going through War of the Jewel. However, at the end of this campain, many things remain unresolve. Is it your plan to have the third part of your trilogy pick things up were War of the Jewel ends? Will the same heros be part of the story?

I'm really glad you enjoyed it!
Yes, the loose end were intended; Part III of the trilogy will fill those gaps and also expand the lore from ASoF, such as the Avatars and the first war against Svarballi. You see, unlike ASoF, WotJ was developed with a sequel in mind, so I added a few things that will pave the way for the last part of the trilogy; scenario A Glimpse of the Light from WotJ is the one that does that the most, effectively showing a character that will be appearing in PArt III. BTW, no, from the characters of WotJ none will appear in the last part - but for Ankhmare, who appears at the ending cutscene. However, there are 3 characters from ASoF who will reappear in the trilogy's finale: one is Svarballi, the other is mentioned at the end cutscene of WotJ, and the third one... Nah, I'll leave it as a surprise ;-P

[Goulven]

Looking forward to trying this third chapter!
I will miss this bunch of heros though, I wish I had known more about their fate. But some of the answers might come in the next campain I guess, even if the chracters themselves are not actually part of it.
Take your time to keep up the good work with smartly designed maps, heros you can relate to and care for and very diverse factions!
While you craft the end of the Dragon Trilogy, I'm starting Soldier of Wesnoth.

[revansurik]

While you craft the end of the Dragon Trilogy, I'm starting Soldier of Wesnoth.

Hope you enjoy it as well! BTW, there's a character mentioned in Soldier of Wesnoth that will appear in Part III of the Dragon Trilogy; she's mentioned only at the epilogue, but in the trilogy's final part she'll be one of the main characters

[marecki]

I've come back to Wesnoth recently and was very happy to see another one of your projects (I forgot my saves while switching to a new computer, so I won't be finishing Soldier of Wesnoth anytime soon).
I'm really liking in so far, from the story (proper follow-up to the Song of Fire), to the characters (each with unique interesting upgrades), to the mission design and balance. Scenarios which in other UMCs would be boring info dumps, here have cool gameplay: the prologue, especially the third part, training and duel in the academy - it's all very impressive. You must have put a lot of work into this and it shows. In short, you've really outdone yourself this time!

Some random nitpicks (playing v. 0.1.4, Wesnoth 1.11.6):

The second umbra spell's greater plague effect doesn't work on Skironians (i.e. living Skironian units slain by nephtys hepet still turn into enemy-controlled undead). Not sure if intended.

Akhen is a bit underwhelming compared to the ladies, who each have incredible utility and/or killing power (especially Merwe and Sigdral).

It's funny how in most missions I've seen so far the best way to win is to spam wisps.

In that early desert scenario, I'm pretty sure I had to keep Sigdral on the ruined keep more than 2 turns before the event triggered (it was about 4 turns).

Spark of Violence is the first "serious" battle scenario, but it can be finished very quickly, because Erynia withdraws whenever any allied unit moves next to her. The player can easily trigger this himself with wisps sent behind enemy lines, but more importantly, the western ally sends his troops straight for the Duchess. In my game, one of the dwarves reached Erynia, ending the mission on turn 14 in a rather anticlimactic manner (almost no experience for units, but huge amount of gold carryover).

In Foundation Stone, objectives never change during the mission (even though they should, twice).

Dark Eclipse is an awesome monumental battle (*gasp* Jevyan! ), but it runs out of steam after all the hectic fighting. At some point my victorious armies just sat there, while Menon slowly trudged toward the lich-lord, flanked by various elementals. Also, the scenario doesn't have a turn limit, so you can actually surround Jevyan with wisps/sylphs (so that allied units don't hurt him) and skip turns until you get filthy rich. I finished it normally, of course, just saying it's a possibility. Perhaps the next mission should have flat amount of starting gold.

[revansurik]

I've come back to Wesnoth recently and was very happy to see another one of your project

Glad to see you're back, I missed your great feedbacks!

The second umbra spell's greater plague effect doesn't work on Skironians (i.e. living Skironian units slain by nephtys hepet still turn into enemy-controlled undead). Not sure if intended.

That must be in the scenarios where killed Skironians ar ressurrected, in other scenarios Nefthys Hepet should work normally.

Akhen is a bit underwhelming compared to the ladies, who each have incredible utility and/or killing power (especially Merwe and Sigdral).

Don't worry, he'll get a bit stronger later on, not counting that he can learn either the Crimson or the Aquamarine Supreme Spell, which are boyh devastating

In that early desert scenario, I'm pretty sure I had to keep Sigdral on the ruined keep more than 2 turns before the event triggered (it was about 4 turns).

That's a bug, I will correct it...

Spark of Violence is the first "serious" battle scenario, but it can be finished very quickly, because Erynia withdraws whenever any allied unit moves next to her. The player can easily trigger this himself with wisps sent behind enemy lines, but more importantly, the western ally sends his troops straight for the Duchess. In my game, one of the dwarves reached Erynia, ending the mission on turn 14 in a rather anticlimactic manner (almost no experience for units, but huge amount of gold carryover).

Maybe I should make her withdraw when her hp are reduced to 0 then; I wanted to make her look cowardly, but if that affects gameplay so much I should change it a little...

Dark Eclipse is an awesome monumental battle (*gasp* Jevyan! ), but it runs out of steam after all the hectic fighting. At some point my victorious armies just sat there, while Menon slowly trudged toward the lich-lord, flanked by various elementals. Also, the scenario doesn't have a turn limit, so you can actually surround Jevyan with wisps/sylphs (so that allied units don't hurt him) and skip turns until you get filthy rich. I finished it normally, of course, just saying it's a possibility. Perhaps the next mission should have flat amount of starting gold.

I noticed that problem too, but RL business forced me to focus on other things, so I had little time to think on an alternative - but I think I've just thought of a way to solve that...

[marecki]

I don't get why everyone is so shocked to find out Menon is a lich. I mean, he's been around for 700 years. What, they thought he ate healthy and exercised?

Waters of Light was fun - Merwe going all hadouken! on the lich and Akhen irradiating the swamp with goodness. It could use more enemy diversity though - the two minor leaders only recruit skeleton archers, which are hard-countered by chariots. Seriously, one high-level chariot can pretty much bulldoze a dozen skellies, I didn't need anything else. More melee enemies would make it slighly more difficult.

In Total Darkness, the gimmick was quite interesting and surprising, but bear in mind that many players may consider it just tedious. You basically have to hover the mouse cursor everywhere to check for impassable terrain, movement ranges, etc. I couldn't be arsed to do it for every single unit every turn. I actually set longer movement routes (chaarge!), which cost me a bunch of lvl3 units, including stone titans. But whatever, I value my sanity more. The scenario is fine and I wouldn't change it, but again, other players may be less forbearing. I appreciated the hint about orcs at the beginning; on the other hand recalling an army of dwarf veterans and then automatically losing them all two turns later was rather unfair. What, they all had to carry unconcious Gomatol out of there?

Immortal Fire: I would remove thunderguards from the dwarf ally's recruit list, as they're just a waste of gold here. The reinforcements Stygia gets seem a tad excessive - 650 gold every six turns buys a lot of undead. I stormed the keep as fast as I could and baited Stygia out on turn 13, preventing the second wave of reinforcements (I don't think it's possible to prevent the first wave).

No serious bugs to report.

[revansurik]

I don't get why everyone is so shocked to find out Menon is a lich. I mean, he's been around for 700 years. What, they thought he ate healthy and exercised?

The thing is, after decades being taught that the lich lords were evil, the Maat'Karians ended up associating lichdom to wickedness - so they would have thought that Menon had found a different way to extend his own life. Notice that none of the elders there (Sadjet and Atseger, for example) get surprised by that, only the younger ones (Mahyus and Atenak, for example).

Waters of Light was fun - Merwe going all hadouken! on the lich and Akhen irradiating the swamp with goodness. It could use more enemy diversity though - the two minor leaders only recruit skeleton archers, which are hard-countered by chariots. Seriously, one high-level chariot can pretty much bulldoze a dozen skellies, I didn't need anything else. More melee enemies would make it slighly more difficult.

The minor enemy sides were composed by archers only because they were gnolls, and all gnoll units are archers

In Total Darkness, the gimmick was quite interesting and surprising, but bear in mind that many players may consider it just tedious. You basically have to hover the mouse cursor everywhere to check for impassable terrain, movement ranges, etc. I couldn't be arsed to do it for every single unit every turn. I actually set longer movement routes (chaarge!), which cost me a bunch of lvl3 units, including stone titans. But whatever, I value my sanity more. The scenario is fine and I wouldn't change it, but again, other players may be less forbearing. I appreciated the hint about orcs at the beginning; on the other hand recalling an army of dwarf veterans and then automatically losing them all two turns later was rather unfair. What, they all had to carry unconcious Gomatol out of there?

Well, I wanted to create an oppressive, tense environment, something like I'd never seen in any other campaign, where you can always see the enemy or the terrain near you. I know that some may not like it, but, well, thats the only such scenario, so...
As for the dwarves, I should have changed that long ago, but then I started working amd ended up forgetting that. I'll have it changed in the next release, though.

Immortal Fire: I would remove thunderguards from the dwarf ally's recruit list, as they're just a waste of gold here. The reinforcements Stygia gets seem a tad excessive - 650 gold every six turns buys a lot of undead. I stormed the keep as fast as I could and baited Stygia out on turn 13, preventing the second wave of reinforcements (I don't think it's possible to prevent the first wave).

I know Stygia's reinforcements are large, but if I made them weaker she wouldn't be much of a challenge for the player - not when you have 5 units with Supreme Spells (Akhen, Merwe, Mahyus, Menon and Sadjet), Medjay, Maryannu, fire, air and stone elementals on your side

[marecki]

Ancient Fire: This one I don't like. Start with 400 gold, against 3 drake leaders (including a dragon), who have a total of 2500g on normal. Note that drake units, like infernos, are extremely powerful for their cost. But that's ok, I actually managed to defeat the ridiculous enemy waves, although with some heavy losses. Secondly, it says that Mahyus can avoid being attacked by not attacking himself, or recruiting. This is misleading, he can still be attacked, in one attempt the drakes just ganged up on him regardless of my sneaky approach. Thirdly, AI behaves strangely here, green enemy uses only some of the gold (recruits 2 inferno drakes every 2 turns), Affalon sometimes doesn't recruit at all (my first attempt he didn't recruit for a couple of turns and simply died to the drakes), sometimes he recruits only 2-3 units per turn. But that's ok, I can deal.
What I CANNOT deal with is the Mahyus vs. Vitras showdown in the fire-enclosed arena. It's pure rng (and the dragon is almost sure to win), but it doesn't matter because Vitras simply attacks Branwyn, kills her (no way she can survive a dragon attack) and I lose. It's impossible to block Vitras to protect her or run away, it's impossible to kill a dragon in a single turn, even at night with all attacks hitting. What the hell?

EDIT: Alright, done. Mahyus has his own gold, for some reason his "side" seems to have shared income, but separate upkeep, which means by the time I reaches Vitras's area, I had 700+ gold. So I thought, screw the sneaky approach, moved to the nearest keep and started spamming skeletons. Since this was in Vitras' movement range, he rushed to attack a skeleton and I blocked him from going back. At the same time I moved four undead to the arena and only went in with Mahyus when all drakes nearby have been massacred and Vitras lost half his hp against my minions (a lot of skellies got destroyed...). I hit him once more for good measure, moved to the cage and finished him off when he "teleported" inside (with a ghost, to add to the embarrassment). There, safely ironmanned, but it kind of felt like cheating.
And yes, I know Mahyus can later recruit from the arena place, but not before the dragon attacks (and Vitras will always choose Branwyn as target, I checked).

[revansurik]

This one I don't like. Start with 400 gold, against 3 drake leaders (including a dragon), who have a total of 2500g on normal. Note that drake units, like infernos, are extremely powerful for their cost. But that's ok, I actually managed to defeat the ridiculous enemy waves, although with some heavy losses

Fires of Hope feelings
Seriously now: it's true that the drake army is large, but you do get reinforcements soon enough - and the Chomi, albeit frail, should be able to heavily harass the drakes on that swampy terrain. If you still have Medjay or Wersefet your army, they should be able to both form sturdy shield-walls and inflict heavy damage on the drakes with their piercing attacks (specially if they're strengthened by Merwe's Inspire. And both Merwe and Nyx, alongside a few air elementals, should easily take care of drake thrashers and arbiters.

Secondly, it says that Mahyus can avoid being attacked by not attacking himself, or recruiting. This is misleading, he can still be attacked, in one attempt the drakes just ganged up on him regardless of my sneaky approach. Thirdly, AI behaves strangely here, green enemy uses only some of the gold (recruits 2 inferno drakes every 2 turns), Affalon sometimes doesn't recruit at all (my first attempt he didn't recruit for a couple of turns and simply died to the drakes), sometimes he recruits only 2-3 units per turn.

These are serious issues. Did Mahyus have the Khemet special, which gives him nightstalk? If yes, then there's something wrong there. I've just found out wat's wrong with side 3, I made a mistake when defining recruitment_pattern, but I'm yet to find why Affalon isn't recruiting...

What I CANNOT deal with is the Mahyus vs. Vitras showdown in the fire-enclosed arena. It's pure rng (and the dragon is almost sure to win), but it doesn't matter because Vitras simply attacks Branwyn, kills her (no way she can survive a dragon attack) and I lose. It's impossible to block Vitras to protect her or run away, it's impossible to kill a dragon in a single turn, even at night with all attacks hitting. What the hell?

Um, that one I acknowledge I have demanded too much; I'll make it so that Mahyus can recruit inside the fire ring. I didn't have a problem myself when fighting Vitras, but I fought at night, and my Branwyn had some AMLAs already...

[marecki]

The minor enemy sides were composed by archers only because they were gnolls, and all gnoll units are archers

The thing is, after decades being taught that the lich lords were evil, the Maat'Karians ended up associating lichdom to wickedness - so they would have thought that Menon had found a different way to extend his own life. Notice that none of the elders there (Sadjet and Atseger, for example) get surprised by that, only the younger ones (Mahyus and Atenak, for example).

Wow, alright, I can accept that, you think of everything.

These are serious issues. Did Mahyus have the Khemet special, which gives him nightstalk? If yes, then there's something wrong there. I've just found out wat's wrong with side 3, I made a mistake when defining recruitment_pattern, but I'm yet to find why Affalon isn't recruiting

Mahyus had all possible upgrades. It appears he gets attacked only if a drake bumps into him in the dark (nightstalk), or if he ends turn in any village (even if that village is outside enemies' range - they will turn back toward Mahyus). So it's actually not bad, just have to stay outside enemy movement range and not take villages.
Affalon is erratic, when I tried to save gold by holding off on recalls he didn't recruit anything, but when I started recalling/recruiting normally he straightened out. The Chomi leader always recruits normally.

my Branwyn had some AMLAs already...

My Branwyn also had AMLAs, three or four in fact, didn't stop Vitras from one-shotting her. Possible solutions: either let Mahyus recruit immediately on the turn Branwyn is freed, or simply don't close off the arena and it should be fine.

Must say I really like the modified units from different eras/UMCs, especially the Chomi advancements. Does wonders for the gameplay.

[revansurik]

Must say I really like the modified units from different eras/UMCs, especially the Chomi advancements. Does wonders for the gameplay.

Wait until you see the giants

[marecki]

Windy Plains: Nyx suffers from dehydration, even though she's technically not alive. Maybe she suffers from desanguination? Also, giants! Very cool, scary.

Path of Stones: The Washraha leader to the south should definitely be more passive. When I got close, he recruited a full keep, rushed out to attack and...died to Nyx and two djinns. No battle, instant win.

A Glimpse of the Light: An excellent cave scenario with interesting new enemies and the only one so far where I finished close to the turn limit (34/41).

The Fires of Shray Tahl: Erm, I suspect this one has a bug. Or not, I'm honestly not sure. Didn't recruit anything, just moved concealed Nyx and Mahyus, as advised, toward the emperor and killed him. Then they say something about warriors rallying under his daughter, but she just sits there, i.e. nothing changes. So I sneaked out of the city the same way I got in, mission won in 4 minutes. I can't shake the feeling that something is supposed to trigger after the emperor's death (guards activating, Sa-Tarva recruiting?), but doesn't.

[revansurik]

Windy Plains: Nyx suffers from dehydration, even though she's technically not alive. Maybe she suffers from desanguination? Also, giants! Very cool, scary.

She doesn't dehydrate, but she gets sunburns, as Arajunna is a very hot place

Path of Stones: The Washraha leader to the south should definitely be more passive. When I got close, he recruited a full keep, rushed out to attack and...died to Nyx and two djinns. No battle, instant win.

Or maybe I should increase the radius of the area that triggers his appearance... 'passive' and 'Washraha' are 2 words that don't fit together

The Fires of Shray Tahl: Erm, I suspect this one has a bug. Or not, I'm honestly not sure. Didn't recruit anything, just moved concealed Nyx and Mahyus, as advised, toward the emperor and killed him. Then they say something about warriors rallying under his daughter, but she just sits there, i.e. nothing changes. So I sneaked out of the city the same way I got in, mission won in 4 minutes. I can't shake the feeling that something is supposed to trigger after the emperor's death (guards activating, Sa-Tarva recruiting?), but doesn't.

Yeah, Sa-Tarva was supposed to start recruiting, and she did when I played... I'll see what it could be

[marecki]

Blazing Hatred is very difficult, I lost half of my precious djinns and lava giants here. Enemies have a huge advantage in numbers, unit quality and damage output. Washraha are just obnoxious and tough to crack, while juggernauts deal immense damage. But my only problem with this scenario is actually of economic nature. There is no turn limit, so no early finish bonus (unlike what it says, btw you should remove that line of text from the info box in all no-limit scenarios, such as this and Dark Eclipse). To survive and win, one has to recruit a lot, both heavy hitters and fodder. This means going heavily into the red, but then it's suddenly over and you start the next scenario with minimum gold. Consider adding a turn limit, not long (it's over soon either way ), but just enough to reward killing those 55 units quickly.

Cradle of Darkness: There is little point heading north, better to kill purple as soon as he appears and then make a stand in the forest. With flyers and chomi on the player's side, fighting in the woods is preferable, since enemies have reduced mobility. Bait humans out with 70% def chomi, zombify them with Mahyus' ultimate, while other heroes deal with skeletons. Trying to reach the mountain only risks losses and extends the battle, which means less carryover for the next mission.