Elf War (campaign)

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Post Reply
Mkgego
Posts: 436
Joined: April 15th, 2004, 10:26 pm
Location: Madrid , Spain , Europe

Post by Mkgego »

turin wrote:A few comments on this campaign:

I find it odd that there are so many scenarios where you only have to defeat one of the leaders... why aren't more "defeat all enemies" instead of "defeat one enemy"?

the towers will not work because the AI does not support multi-hex ranged attacks. You could bug a coder to make them do so, but its probably not going to happen.

I think the dialogue could use some work... there are a lot of "wanna"s and "gonna"s that I think should be replaced.
To point number 1 : I dont know how to do it ^^...
Tpn2 : Have already asked, no help, no idea, i let it how it is...
Tpn3 : Fine...If you could help me... Iam not so good in english, scott translated my poor english in the english wich is inside the campaign ^^ ...


PD: Thx for playtesting as it needs some balancing and little changes...
WoW C-Mode activated...
For the horde :D
torangan
Retired Developer
Posts: 1365
Joined: March 27th, 2004, 12:25 am
Location: Germany

Post by torangan »

turin wrote: the towers will not work because the AI does not support multi-hex ranged attacks. You could bug a coder to make them do so, but its probably not going to happen.
Is the feature not wanted or does nobody want to code it? The engine supportes them somewhat and the case for towers which don't move shouldn't be hard to code. After all, it's just checking a limited range of hexes for enemy units and attacking the best one. That would be...
- if no unit is in attacking range, the weakest
- if there are units attacking, the weakest among those with the weakest counter attack

Obviously not the smartest thing possible but I'm rather sure that I could code this in little time. - If I can expect it to be added to mainline (provided that I write good code :D).
Mkgego
Posts: 436
Joined: April 15th, 2004, 10:26 pm
Location: Madrid , Spain , Europe

Post by Mkgego »

torangan that would be soooooo cooool... :D :D :D
WoW C-Mode activated...
For the horde :D
torangan
Retired Developer
Posts: 1365
Joined: March 27th, 2004, 12:25 am
Location: Germany

Post by torangan »

From a coding standpoint, I see no problems in this but I won't take the time unless I expect it to be included. In fact, a simple implementation should be so easy, that I wonder why it's not done already.
Sure, an intelligent implementation would be quite a challenge but to make them behave as simple support buildings isn't too hard.
Otherwise - can you define rules along which to decide what unit to attack? Your towers with a range of eight could easily have 20 units in range...
scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

If you code it, you can post the patch on savannah for submission. If it makes the game better and doesn't break anything then I don't know why anyone would say no. Regardless, I can build a fork with your code so people can try it out (on mac os X).
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
torangan
Retired Developer
Posts: 1365
Joined: March 27th, 2004, 12:25 am
Location: Germany

Post by torangan »

I guess it would be accepted, multi range attacks are already implemented, the AI just doesn't know how to use them. If anyone got a good idea about how to select the target that would help though. Otherwise I'll stick with a rather simplistic solution to be improved by whomever who got a better idea.

BTW a good idea would have to be formulated in rules that can be implemented. Something like:
1) Attack the unit with the highest chance to die
2) If no unit can be killed with one attack, attack someone who's attacking the tower
3) If no unit is attacking right now, attack the weakest unit found

That way it's a simple support "unit" with the simple goal - dead enemies won't attack anymore. :)
scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

Here is a first cut at EW2:R

Again, I took some liberties with the dialogue. If you don't like it, let me know. A tenet of story writing is that the readers should be able to identify with the main character, so I tried to make him more likeable. It also added an element of mystery so people want to find out why he started the war (not just for greed). You don't have to stick with these ideas, because they're just ideas. (I also have an idea for reasons for the war if you don't have any in mind and want to use one).

I wasn't sure why you kept the Iron Mauler cfg file. If you wanted a custom description, Rolfus should be his own unit. Otherwise you could use any old Iron Mauler and just name it Rolfus. I went with option 1 and changed your custom Iron_Mauler.cfg file to Rolfus.cfg and switched the id and unit name. This way there's no chance of the rest of the game being infected with EW2's custom units.

You really should do it with the Horse Lord file, but since that's not as common of a unit as the Iron Mauler it should be ok for now. I tried to catch all instances of Rolfus in the scenarios, but if there are any problems let me know.

PS version 0.0? :)
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
Mkgego
Posts: 436
Joined: April 15th, 2004, 10:26 pm
Location: Madrid , Spain , Europe

Post by Mkgego »

Thx scott^^ :D
Well the war started because see "elf war" :D

And well the cause of the war are also explained in the scenario number 4 of revenge (wich i have ended it just now ^^)!

Well I actually wasnt going to use any heavy infantryman so i dont think to shange rolfus id was neccesarry but thx too ^^ :D ...

Yeah version number 0.0 as it is just the commence ^^ :D ... now with the right translations for the first 3 maps iam on 0.1 and when i have finished 2 other scenarios on 0.3 (wich is going to be in the campaign server in X days, maybe 1 or 2)...

THX FOR ALL ^^


Edit: Know that the second part is called Elf War II : Revenge how should be called Elf War : ????

Should it be left as it is or change?
WoW C-Mode activated...
For the horde :D
scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

Changing HI for your campaign will unintendedly change it for everyone else's also, including multiplayer. I know this first hand.

I would call it Elf War II: Revenge, but it's your choice.

If the extra dialogue I added doesn't fit with your plot, just kill it.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
Mkgego
Posts: 436
Joined: April 15th, 2004, 10:26 pm
Location: Madrid , Spain , Europe

Post by Mkgego »

scott wrote:Changing HI for your campaign will unintendedly change it for everyone else's also, including multiplayer. I know this first hand.

I would call it Elf War II: Revenge, but it's your choice.

If the extra dialogue I added doesn't fit with your plot, just kill it.

1. No, I have just tested it ^^

2. I find your way better^^

3. It fits...


To number 2: Now the second part is called Elf War II : Revenge
How should I name the first part ? Elf War : ?¿?
Or just leave it as it is ... ?¿?
WoW C-Mode activated...
For the horde :D
scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

Alright, here it is with scenarios 1-5 smoothed out language-wise. I didn't do #6 yet.

I have some suggestions for you...

- I would call the first campaign just "Elf War" (to answer your question) - again, not my call

- in scenario 3, since the castle is named Eors, the character Eors should be some kind of noble or general instead of just a lowly royal guard (i.e. a royal guard who owns a castle?)

- you need to change the caution setting on the ai for the 2 allied forces. They run out into the water and get killed by mermen. If they had just stayed on the grass, they would have owned them. The blue team should stay on the castle but instead they run out into the grass and attack orcs sitting in hills and forest. I think changing caution and aggression settings will fix this.

- some boat graphics for the orcish reinforcements would be cool.

- While I like having the ranged impact attack for Rolfus, a ranged mace attack doesn't make much sense. The morning star for Ebrahim is probably pushing it, but that makes more sense. I don't know about Rolfus, though...

- In scenario 4, I recommend you get to retain 100% of the gold instead of 80%. It's just a talking scenario

- In scenario 4, I would move the trapdoor graphic and moveto event so the graphic doesn't overlap the castle. It would be fine at the top or off to one side

- In scenario 5 it says kill Urburk, not Krusku

- Finally, a plot suggestion: You should change the reason Ebrahim II started the war from wanting gold mines. For example, he or his father could have used their dark powers to learn of some kind of evil menace living in the dwarf caves. They needed to stir up the monster with fighting to draw it out and kill it. If they didn't do so, the monster would have gotten stronger until it emerged and killed all 4 races. The monster could be some kind of dragon, super lich, or balrog type demon. The campaign could conclude at the mouth of the original dwarf caves. It could give the plot a nice jab so it's not just endless war for no reason. But as always it's up to you.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
Mkgego
Posts: 436
Joined: April 15th, 2004, 10:26 pm
Location: Madrid , Spain , Europe

Post by Mkgego »

Thx scott... I dont know how in the hell should I made the ai more inteliggent( caution and agression)...

You mean changing the plot in elf war or the second part ? (yep I noticed that the whole war is in the end useless and got stucked myself ^^)

Gave Rolfus long atack mace in order to make him more powerful against elvish archers, the same with ebrahim.

Yeah I will change Eors to another type of unit, that would be better... must see wich one fits better in the role of castle owner ^^ ...


I had also the idea of having a ship moving across the map carring the orcish reinforcements but I dont know (dont understand well) how should I made it work (I know with fake unit move tags and so one)...---->That is why in father son speech you have to move Ebrahim to his father...Actually that was going to be a "click-read" map instead of "move-read" map ^^

I dont know how to make that you gain in Father Son Speech 100% Gold or in other words nothing...



Dindt notice that in scenario 5 I have put kill Urbuk ^^ ... Stupid mistakes ^^ :D ...


---> THX scott


PS: Can someone explain me (but please without abrevations) how can I make agression, caution and move fake unit efects work ? THX !!!
WoW C-Mode activated...
For the horde :D
scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

inside any side tag (adjust numbers as desired):

Code: Select all

[ai]
caution=0.9
aggression=0.2
[/ai]
within an event tag:

Code: Select all

[move_unit_fake]
type=Pirate Galleon
x=1,2,3
y=2,2,2
[/move_unit_fake]
[unit]
side=4
type=Pirate Galleon
x=3
y=2
[/unit]
This will move a ship from 1,2 to 2,2 to 3,2 and then plop a unit at 3,2
If you don't place the unit with the [unit] tag then it will disappear.

It will work for click-read maps, but you need to place a unit before dialogue starts then kill the unit when it stops.

Within the start event do this:

Code: Select all

move unit fake tag

unit tag

message tags

kill tag

move unit fake tag

endlevel tag
in the endlevel tag, result=continue will allow you to not have the 20% reduction in gold.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
Mkgego
Posts: 436
Joined: April 15th, 2004, 10:26 pm
Location: Madrid , Spain , Europe

Post by Mkgego »

Ok scott.... I have written the hole plot of EW and the plot of the 6 EWII scenarios as you said its logical is decreasing... I find it very logical but I would be thankful if you could read it and tell me were its unlogical...

Scott or anyone lese wich wants to read...


THX :P
Attachments
Plot EW and EWII.cfg
(7.04 KiB) Downloaded 385 times
WoW C-Mode activated...
For the horde :D
scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

I'll put down some ideas and send it to you via PM. All you would really need to do is tweak some of the dialogue in scenario 4.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
Post Reply