The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.4c

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Telchin
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.4

Post by Telchin »

Regarding your replay, the problem is very obvious: you're too good for easy.
More like I'm good at save/loading :oops: I don't remember if I needed save/loading in this cenario, but I'm sure I used it elsewhere in the campaign (namely the first scenario).
I never dreamed that anybody would assault the loyalists face-to-face.
Well, there seem to be two ways to the Arcmage's hose. If you through the bridge in the north, you get flooded and assasinated by Nagas. And if you go through the city, then the loyalist leader in the way.
I reduced the hit chance to 1% and disabled victory on defeating enemies to make such abuses impossible
Either make him 100% unkillable or just disable victory on enemies defeated and let him be killabel. 1% chance to be hit should be enough to protect him from honest players, but not from save/load abuse.

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lipk
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.4

Post by lipk »

I don't remember if I needed save/loading in this cenario,
Well, you have +17%/-12% dealt/received damage by turn 14, which is not particularly impossible, but leaves room for some suspicion... :wink:
Well, there seem to be two ways to the Arcmage's hose. If you through the bridge in the north, you get flooded and assasinated by Nagas. And if you go through the city, then the loyalist leader in the way.
Honestly, I mostly did it by sending a few footpad or thief class units across the river (so they landed right in the garden), and that way can work, too.
Either make him 100% unkillable or just disable victory on enemies defeated and let him be killabel. 1% chance to be hit should be enough to protect him from honest players, but not from save/load abuse.
Walter must survive (he has some dialogs in the end of the scenario), so option 2 is not an option. Regarding saveloaders: fulfilling the objectives is an easier and more fun way to win the scenario than sitting around trying to beat someone, who gets hit by only every 100th attack... but if you really want to do that, I'm not here to prevent you from ruining your own game...

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MetalKing
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.4

Post by MetalKing »

I played the Campaign and like this Campaign for its funy Story-Details. Perhaps hard to "integrate" into "Wesnoth-World" but the Campaign showed some nice Elementes to cast a StoryLine like the Meeting/Recruiting in the Pub.
"Sir! We are surrounded by our enemies!" - "Excellent ! We can attack in every direction!"
"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." -- Albert Einstein
No Source - No Binary - No Trust!
Map Wesnoth Springs - The great War [200x120],Player=9

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lipk
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.4

Post by lipk »

Happy you liked it!

I got a notification this morning that the campaign generates errors on WesCamp, and while trying to properly carry out Espreon's instructions to fix it, I produced two whole updates, 0.1.4a and 0.1.4b. There's no much news, I killed some bugs and commited some dialogue changes suggested long ago by rmj. And restored WesCamp compatibility, of course.

Here's your usual changelog:

Code: Select all

* version 0.1.4b
	* double quoted strings replaced with “” signs, now it should be ok

* version 0.1.4a
	* Bugfixes & other
		* changed Arcane Grenadier gender from female to male
		* there's now only 1% chance to hit Walter in scenario 3
		* no victory when enemy leaders defeated in scenario 3
		* removed escaped quotation marks from _main.cfg, replaced with double quoted strings
		* various text changes in scenarios 1, 2 and 3

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Wesbane
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.4b

Post by Wesbane »

lipk wrote:Regarding saveloaders: fulfilling the objectives is an easier and more fun way to win the scenario than sitting around trying to beat someone, who gets hit by only every 100th attack... but if you really want to do that, I'm not here to prevent you from ruining your own game...
I'm not an expert, but I'm sure this doesn't work like this. It modifies only a chance to hit per attack. That is each attack has 1 percent chance of reaching a target. However it can happen 10 times in a row exactly in a same way Dark adept standing in a water attacked by 3 deathblades doesn't get even scratched. It is very unlikely, but possible. So this is responsibility of a designer to ensure that events that have no consequence in a game world will not happen.

It is a bad practice to assume that player will follow scenario design. In fact it is certain that if they liked the game much they will play it at least several times. At 30th time they will try something different. So it is needed to clarify in game that some actions are pointless. Also giving opposing leader 99 percent evasion is creating a false impression that he can be killed and when it is revealed that for some reason it is hard this count as tomato. That's why a warning need to be given to player to not fight with loyalist when he attempts to. And if he ignores it feel free to do any kind of unpleasant surprises like giving extra gold to enemy, spawning guards or anything else.

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lipk
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.4b

Post by lipk »

That is each attack has 1 percent chance of reaching a target. However it can happen 10 times in a row
The chance of this is exactly 0,01^10. About the same as switching on debug mode by accident and summoning 10 skeledragons :P
Also giving opposing leader 99 percent evasion is creating a false impression that he can be killed and when it is revealed that for some reason it is hard this count as tomato. That's why a warning need to be given to player to not fight with loyalist when he attempts to. And if he ignores it feel free to do any kind of unpleasant surprises like giving extra gold to enemy, spawning guards or anything else.
Meh, this's the least of tomatoes currently being in that scenario :) But honestly, I don't consider my users totally dumb. They know that they don't have to kill that leader, so trying to do so is practically a waste of time.

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Telchin
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.4b

Post by Telchin »

They know that they don't have to kill that leader, so trying to do so is practically a waste of time.
Well, I've said before that I went throught the city rather than the northern way, so the loyalist leader was sort of in way. And killing level 3 enemy leader seemed like a good way to give my units experience (given I abuse save/loading anyway I try to up the challenge by killing as many enemy leaders as possible). Also, on topic of players doing things different way than intended, this is very true - for example the first scenario of DiD has an alternate ending just for people who go off the rails and recruit any WCs.

orangebox
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.4b

Post by orangebox »

I really like this campaign. The dialogue scripts could be a little better as the characters personality aren't well established with the rather generalized manner of speech. That said, if Creona's personality had been much more developed, it could be very polished - story wise. Not to mention the rest of the cast.

The music is well chosen too :D

Also, rather than hiring new units in battle - I'd suggest recalling only during 'battles' and the actual recruitment occuring only in the inns. That way, you can get familiarized with Creona's gang and form a certain player-unit bond ;D

Scratch that thought. It was a comment from playing only 2 chapters :P

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lipk
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.4b

Post by lipk »

@Wesbane, Telchin: Right. I reduced the hit chance from 1% to 0%. Now shut up and be happy. Bah. ^_^

@orangebox: happy you like it!
I really like this campaign. The dialogue scripts could be a little better as the characters personality aren't well established with the rather generalized manner of speech. That said, if Creona's personality had been much more developed, it could be very polished - story wise. Not to mention the rest of the cast.
I can assure you that Creona has a very developed and layered personality, but awfully, she can't speak English any better than me :P At my level, it would have been naive to go for anything more than generic, grammatically correct dialogues. A major text revision is planned, though.

orangebox
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.4b

Post by orangebox »

Actually, you are right. I have just finished it minutes ago. Her personality is quite well portrayed - with only a few nitpicks at certain dialogues (not that I can remember which) and some quick revisions will have her portrayal much more solid.

Daravel
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.4b

Post by Daravel »

I have begun work on the dialogue. I have done the first scenario so you can see the direction and style I plan to use and we can then discuss anything you want me to change before I carry on. I delete any line I haven't changed, put REMOVE if I think it should be taken out and put ADD IN if I think a line should be added.

I don't like the use of (whisper) or (is angry) and tend to either put things in italics or use words to denote emotions as I feel that brackets look really bad in dialogue. Also, while I replay the campaign I will probably compile a huge list of suggestions and such, so be ready for that!

First scenario is pretty good, nothing to mention.

Characters:
Creona - I'm making her a bit more sarcastic and ready to take the mick out of other characters but also trying to retain her professional nature
Basyl - I'm going to make him say more stupid stuff (In scenario 1 I have him undercutting the Lich's offer)
Mal Amadeus - I'm making him more arrogant and egotistical things but to actually be really bad in verbal confrontation (Creona calling him Maddy and he has nothing to say back)

I hope you like what I've done and that I have kept (and hopefully added) some humour.
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lipk
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.4b

Post by lipk »

Thanks for your work, Daravel, this looks very good! I love the changes you made for Creona and Basyl. I also like that you're giving a consistent personality for Amadeus (he is probably the flattest character in the campaign now), but I find it overexaggerated. I know this is classified as a "fun campaign", but I'd still prefer the main villain to be a bit less ridiculous. Also, you marked a string as to be removed (when Creona speaks about moving to the front); that should be kept for gameplay reasons. The player has to move close to Amadeus to win the scenario, and I'd like to imply that somehow.

Before I commit these changes, though
I spam you with another no-news release, 0.1.4c
All changes are the brand new Hungarian translation and a credits entry for Espreon, who has already helped me out multiple timed with WesCamp stuff and gave some very useful feedback.
Changelog:

Code: Select all

* version 0.1.4c
	* Bugfixes & other
		* added Hungarian translation
		* added missing #textdomain to macros/scenarios/scenario02.cfg
		* credited Espreon
	* Balancing
		* 0% chance to hit Walter in scenario 3

Daravel
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.4b

Post by Daravel »

Excellent :) Before you commit the changes I need to double check them for typos and I will tone Amadeus' personality down a bit. I will change Creona's line, I didn't quite get the meaning behind the line but now you have explained I know what to do with it!

I'm meant to be revising, but I no doubt will get bored so there should be a steady workflow from me.

alex_kr
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.4c

Post by alex_kr »

Hi,
thanks for this campaign,it is really great and unique in many ways,for instance-mission where you must assasinate Arch-Mage-excelent scripted events,It's actually the first time I've seen something like that in Wesnoth.
Also-I love the charasters,and humor.(when at the end of that crazyness General agreed to hire Creona for assasinating herself i nearly fall of my chair laughing)

I have only one question:how,for heaven's sake,must I kill that sob Jack,while between me and him is,like,twenty units of all kinds????Btw,I am playing on hard.I mean, I asked for it,but neverteless,going 4 vs 20-and-smth just plainly NOT FAIR.Unability to recruit my 2nd level veterans is also something that doesn't add chances.With incredible luck on my side I breached through the flank with Creona,while abandoning others.That bomber-defense-lacking-idiot endured attacks like a boss,against ten enemies at once,but then,I still didn't have enough time to reach Jack.
So,HOW???

thanks in advance,and sorry for my terrible english:)

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lipk
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Re: The Devil's Flute - version 0.1.4c

Post by lipk »

Hi, thank you for playing!

The auto-recall method in that scenario was a last minute change (eh, not even last minute, it was actually done after releasing the campaign), so yeah, probably it could have used a little more testing. It was balanced with my very own recall list in mind (which mostly consists of level 3-s at this point; maybe I don't have to tell, I'm really a master of playing this campaign :wink: ), therefore it might be kind of hard if your top units are only level twos. I think the best tactic is not to engage the enemy at the bridge (which might be the most logical at first sight, but in the south, at the ford (or even beyond that).
if it does not work...
And if it doesn't work either, then *khm* you may probably *khm* have to *khm* cheat. I really hate myself for corrupting you, but it'd be a pity if you couldn't see those awesome scenarios awaiting you after Agent Jack. So, if hope fails hit ':' and then type 'debug'. Probably the least intrusive way to handle that scenario is raising the turn limit, for that hit ':' again and type 'turn_limit 100'. This will give you 100 turns to finish the scenario. And sorry for the inconveniences :)

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