Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Mawmoocn
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Joined: March 16th, 2019, 3:54 pm

Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Mawmoocn »

>> impossible is at
Whaaa??? I haven't finished my other campaigns and now you do this???? NUUUUUUUU PLEASE GIB CHEATS

jk
That's probably .... I'll use maximum strategy? Looks fun though.

Ah so many changes I really like:
>> you can no longer buy x goods, but type in a number how many goods you want to purchase
I can now farm craft too many items!

I kinda agree that leveling makes things harsher.... spells that give experience is a hard way to play. Though I consider that as a spell nerf. I can probably glitch around it...

Still, I can't wait to play again!


Thank you very much for updating!

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Heindal
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Heindal »

Hi Mawmcoocn,

thanks for the reply. Yeah, but spells don't give so much experience, spells give just exp based on how complicated they are, once they are casted. But you will not receive exp for killing anything with spells. So at least a little bit exp, instead of nothing.

Also note that it might be, that a saved game has still some old features of the game. For this I created the "Doc" in the Temple District of Capital City. You should be able to access new features there and e.g. activated the new heromenu, which is usually "saved" in the save games.

There are Cheats, just try "Easy" the Betatester class and fool around. That's what it's made for. Its a nice way to test the crafting of the customize-able weapons, equipment and spells, songs, summons. Enjoy.
The future belongs to those, who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses

GreatAlucard
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Joined: May 17th, 2020, 2:02 pm

Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by GreatAlucard »

Heindal wrote:
May 18th, 2020, 11:09 am
What I can read here, is that the RPG Mode should be made easier.
Ok, I will check that. Maybe I will change the starting level.

However RPG is for experienced players (experienced players who played through Strange Legacy at least once) and 'rogue' like.
So your 'survival' is not intended, but it's cool to make your own story, instead of following the story-line:

"Suddenly out of nowhere a vile orcish beast appeared surrounded by venomous spiders. Blue shining runes were carved in his blade. You've heard rumors about these abomination called 'Deathblade'. You knew you only chance was to take this foe on a distance or make a run as fast as I could."

You see - this is part of an adventure to die and try again.
This is not exactly what I meant.

High difficulty is fine, desirable even. What I was making reference to is the means used in "Strange Legacy" to achieve that.

The way it currently works is "Higher Level" equals "Higher Difficulty" - which to a certain degree tends to work reasonably well - the point is, I do not believe it works all that well here. Or in other words - I think progression is the issue, not difficulty itself.

A person will want to level up a character to get more powerful, it is fine if enemies in turn also get more powerful, but after a certain point, if enemies get sufficiently more powerful, the power disparity will increase in disfavor of the player - this means, in turn, that leveling up makes your character weaker in relation to your enemy, thus making leveling up undesirable.

This could be fixed if difficulty was tied not only to level, but also to other factors - like "days passed" or certain regions have stronger enemies.

The tutorial also seems to give you the wrong idea when you're learning about spells - it tells you not to "finish" enemies with spells, but instead use attacks, because spells do not give XP. Well if getting XP makes your character weaker in relation to enemies then you'd actually want to do the exact opposite.

This also hurts some character classes greatly - mainly the ones that are more suited for combat, like the bounty hunter, if the bounty hunter does what he is designed to do he will actually be weaker in combat than other classes that do not depend on it, simply because he will over level faster than he can get the equipment to deal with new threats.

Characters that can generate resources without doing XP giving activities, in turn, are the opposite

Granted this effect can be mitigated if you try to finish enemies with skills or spells - to avoid XP - it's still incredibly counter intuitive.

I haven't actually looked at the coding for this but I think you already keep track of days and I do believe that if you could tie the ramping of difficulty not only to level, but also to days passed it'd bring a different feeling, where levelling up is good and where there's also a sense of urgency, since delaying too much makes enemies stronger.



So the short version is - I don't think difficulty is the problem, high difficulty is fine, the problem is that leveling up is currently just not desirable. If you in fact go out of your way to avoid leveling - your character will be more powerful, and this just seems counter intuitive.



Either way I like the addon, so even if this particular design choice stays like this I will probably go for a longer playthrough once it shows up for 1.15, since it does perform sufficiently better for me to warrant the wait.

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Heindal
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Heindal »

Hi GreatAlucard,

Indeed, you have a point here. But I assume that with higher experience, the player will be travelling the world and see the powers and chances it offers. With enough wits you can became very powerful even more powerful than the game can compensate. Without these killer tactics I'm afraid it is not so easy, indeed.

But you will get dexterity, charisma and strength etc. for free by achievements, findings in ruins (free skill points!) or 'words of power' or ancient spells, which unlock within the story. Usually a magician will just cast "Apocalypse" once to get rid of all enemies in a map with one single spell.

In order to get "apocalypse" you of course have to discover and explore the world around you.

The enemy is hard to hit: get a weapon with the "magical" weapon skill?
An enemy can kill you instantly - use spells or skills or just ignore them using teleport.

A greater teleport scroll can even teleport you without using an action - even so I like the idea that a greater teleport scroll works like in "Howl's Moving Castle", but in our case it works like a homeportal.

There are a lot of killer tactics, but the player must find them.

(the-stamina-plattschuss-naga-double-stamina tactic, or the "finish the dratted storyline and get a deadly(!) weapon" tactic, or the "go down the levels in infinite dungeons and find new companion - WHOAA is that a fire dragon CONVINCE" tactic)
Spoiler:
To compensate the incredible power a player can gain, I had to add some nasty things, indeed. Such as enemies with mortal attacks, or who are immune to weapons or spells. I also dislike the idea, that a hero is never in danger. It wouldn't be a hero. A hero shouldn't be the strongest opponent in the room, but the smartest.

Edit:

I also want to note, that level also has a positive aspect on:

- various skills that do "level" damage
- summon units will get the same upgrades as your enemies + a charisma bonus - so they are always stronger than enemies
-- as you can summon epic creatures such as firedragons this is relevant.
- level increases some chances such as crafting (as higher the skill the more experienced the player, the better she/he is)

- however level also has some unseen disadvantage concerning several skill checks, where you have to compensate your level with your skill, for example pick-pocketing and free working. This was to make the game react to the players strength to and avoid the player to bore out. The player can never be too sure, that something works by 100%. In all systems I know it is different and gets boring.
The future belongs to those, who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses

Moransky
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Joined: June 19th, 2010, 10:10 am

Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Moransky »

Which cap have diffenet skills? I've upgraded Pickpocketing through tavern till 101 and then it's stopped. But in Thieves guild after pickpocketing 10 citizens I've got a reward - and now have Pickpocketing 102.

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Heindal
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Heindal »

Hi Moransky,

that's intended. By using pickpocket either in the tavern when on npcs you can increase it up to a max of 100.
There are some ways to extend your maximum level of a skill.

These are unusual ways such as mission rewards, random encounter rewards or archaeological / reading rewards, which allow you to extend your skill even beyond the maximum. So you could extend to any skill infinitely, but it's harder once you reach this "maximum".

While main skills have are capped at 100, other skills such as mining or smithing (forging) have a maximum of 1000.
No matter what skill, there is still a way to even extend each skill over it's maximum.
The future belongs to those, who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses

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