Return to Noelren 0.7.6

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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pyrophorus
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Re: Return to Noelren 0.7.6

Post by pyrophorus »

pauline wrote:S23 (Battle for Weldyn)
Some external advice how to best cope with this situation would be interesting, but not from the author:
Pyro with his [very bad player skills ] never accomplished this mission without cheating, that's certain.
What can I say in reply to this tortuous infamy ? I solemnly state I won all the scenarios in my campaign without cheating in any way (not even savescumming). Of course, I know all the tricks and the winning strategies, but it's not so great an advantage.
BTW, it's not very difficult to win this one. Don't rush too quickly, let the dwarves and the cavalry come to your help. The mixed forest/hills terrain in the middle of the map gives you advantage. Just wait the foes run out of money and finish them.
pauline wrote: After all, these incidents have a significant impact on the future of Wesnoth,
when all is properly said and done they´ll find their place in the chronicles of the capital Weldyn !
pauline
Fortunately, the Wesnoth story don't says much about the first dark age and its ending. Only someone named Garard finally took the throne and founded a dynasty (so I provided him a wife whose name is so difficult to memorize the chronicles said not a word about her). I had only to imagine some unbelievable events to fleshen this bare skeleton, but, in the darkness of this age, anything can happen without torning out the sacred Wesnoth lore.

Friendly,
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pauline
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Re: Return to Noelren 0.7.6

Post by pauline »

@ pyrophorus: "... I had only to imagine some unbelievable events ..."
I rate this comment as "unjustified modesty". Tolkien explains more or less :
A good story-teller ushers the reader´s mind into a world where everything accords with the laws of that world. It is therefore "true".
This "BfW-inspirer" even goes so far as to say: “The moment disbelief arises, the spell is broken; the magic, or rather art, has failed.
Failed ? That does not go for your campaign ! Au contraire: Your "spell" works so good that I wish you´d flesh out your plot even more,
add some details, unbelievable or not. Just one example: the kings crowning ! :D
How often do we have the opportunity to witness such a historic moment in BfW ?
Our Garard will lay the foundation for a centuries-long dynasty !
He´ll reign for 53 years, quite an amount of time on that violent, warlike continet !
(Apropos: by all appearances, he seems to be about 53 at the time of his enthronement …this would make him 76 at the birth of son Garad II,
he´d father son Arand at the age of 85, and such sultry man full of life and vigor sureley went further than that in his remaining 20 years …
A long-standing proof of Wesnothion virility ! Can he claim the title "oldest father in the Wesnoth World " ? OK, too much off-topic.)


@ pyrophorus: ."... the chronicles said not a word about her. " (Note: this refers to Queen Patnaworsimeshiflormana !)
Well, not yet. This should definitely change when your campaign is ready, you filled in that blank in the Wesnoth lore.

S24 (The last battle)
Spoiler:
S25 (Victory)
Spoiler:
(Epilogue)
Spoiler:
Likes and dislikes
What starts off as one man´s kismet turns into something much, much bigger … and then returns to the beginning:
"A sad story" [sic], a tragedy of Shakespearean proportions, after all … despite so many good laughs.
Trying not to sound overly enthusiastic: I haven´t played any fantasy game that kept me so much dwelling on thoughts
about the story. Questions sprang up which – related to Wesnoth – I never would have thought possible.
That says a lot for the quality of this campaign and signals a gifted tale-teller !

Pyro provided some fine entertainment, a particularly interesting game that makes a lasting impression:
Adamant14 made a good point. I have no clue of the technical side, but experienced players acknowledged basically:
"this content is unique and truly pushes the boundaries of what can be done with the game."
If so: surprising that the author´s name hasn´t been fed in the "UMC Pioneer"-list yet. :hmm:
His tricks surely cracked the limits of what I myself thought possible in BfW.

RtN is a plot in the Wesnoth world, acceptable to go into mainline – not only to show off the attractiveness of this game, but also
for filling a chronological gap, and in a very clever way. Though emphasizing more on story and adventures than combats:
there are enough battles to satisfy eagerness of slaughtering. Colorful characters fight for survival and justice,
the hero is courageous and generous, strong and sweet, noble in his manners and thoughts ... a perfect Wesnoth man.
We have new and known units (which have worked out heavily, arranged new equipment or advanced in handling their abilities),
funny missions, lots of new ideas … like a special menu with info about goals and how to achieve them.
A distinguishing asset is the opportunity of an unconstrained way of playing:
Wander the scenarios with a happy-go-lucky attitude (there is something satisfying about spearheading over powered characters !),
or a tough time with challenging battles (there is something astonishing about not being able to win them easily with all that over powered characters !).
Yes, it took me a while to get rid of "ordinary BfW-thinking", my next, now open-minded play-through will be even more interesting !
But whatever a player prefers, lastly, all comes down to the same: a kingdom lost, a kingdom won back.

My only "dislike" about this campaign would be: the all too subtle development. :) Sure, when "makers of all things" look over their opus,
thinking "Behold, it is very good !", then wailing and complaining is almost of no avail, crisis intervention by creators is empirically dubious.
Still, I´m looking forward to seeing ideas pop out of your imagination, Pyrophorus, and RtN marked as "final ". Even if the mills grind slowly ...
Spoiler:
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pyrophorus
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Re: Return to Noelren 0.7.6

Post by pyrophorus »

What can I reply o such a dithyrambic comment ? Maybe I can only thank and say I'm happy to give you such a pleasure with my humble work. I wouldn't imagine it creating this campaign.

And no, RtNt will not remain in the present state. Thanks to your comments, I will maintain and improve it.

By the way, I don't think my work will give me the acknowledgments you hope for it. I don't think it will be mainline one day, and I don't think I will get any user rank one day. But I care not. I price more your comments and appreciations, the time you gave to them, than any title and glory trifle. Your joy is my joy.

So, sweet my Lady, please accept the Foregast, the black sword, scepter of the Noelren house and all nigthmare bane. Bear it to good fortune in Wesnoth world or any other !
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yukipol
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Re: Return to Noelren 0.7.6

Post by yukipol »

The introduction "Sad Story" does not end when all the orcs are killed.
Is there a way to end it?
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pyrophorus
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Re: Return to Noelren 0.7.6

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Hi !
Actually, the scenario ends only when the hero is killed, not when all the orcs are killed.
And I don't really see how you could kill all the orcs with only a few level one units, and quite no gold. Using debug mode maybe ? I've nothing against it, but sorry, RtN will not work very well if you use it.
So restart the campaign, just let Tiomen the hero be killed and you will go to next scenario.

Friendly,
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Re: Return to Noelren 0.7.6

Post by yukipol »

No debug, just unusually bored and doing save and load.
Thanks for the info, I shall let him die.
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pyrophorus
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Re: Return to Noelren 0.7.6

Post by pyrophorus »

yukipol wrote:No debug, just unusually bored and doing save and load.
Thanks for the info, I shall let him die.
The campaign is not very difficult, even if at times, it seems impossible to fulfill the task. Use the "help & hints" menu if you are stuck and don't find the trick !

Thanks for playing RtN !
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yukipol
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Re: Return to Noelren 0.7.6

Post by yukipol »

I have seen various cases where the HP of a unit were larger than the max, but now I see a new one, where the XP is larger than the max, for a unit which, judging by the font color, is supposed to go up a level.

For the same unit, I noticed strange probabilities for fight outcome, but perhaps they are consequences of XP > max.

The unit is Lona, and the scenario is Finding Allies.
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pyrophorus
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Re: Return to Noelren 0.7.6

Post by pyrophorus »

yukipol wrote:I have seen various cases where the HP of a unit were larger than the max, but now I see a new one, where the XP is larger than the max, for a unit which, judging by the font color, is supposed to go up a level.

For the same unit, I noticed strange probabilities for fight outcome, but perhaps they are consequences of XP > max.

The unit is Lona, and the scenario is Finding Allies.
Hi !
Yes, you're right. Some units (in WML sense) like Lona, have no advancement, this because the character will dress a new unit later. But anyway, I should fix this and even carry over the experience of the character.
Thanks for you feedback. Hope you enjoy the campaign !
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Re: Return to Noelren 0.7.6

Post by yukipol »

In First Battle:
The Hint is to build a bridge, but it appears much simpler to have Tolivia recall a part of Garards army on the other side of the river.
She can get to a conveniently unoccupied Keep there and the recall works for her.
Turgan's forces are too small to offer a noticeable resistance.
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pyrophorus
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Re: Return to Noelren 0.7.6

Post by pyrophorus »

yukipol wrote:In First Battle:
The Hint is to build a bridge, but it appears much simpler to have Tolivia recall a part of Garards army on the other side of the river.
She can get to a conveniently unoccupied Keep there and the recall works for her.
Turgan's forces are too small to offer a noticeable resistance.
Yes, you perfectly win the scenario like that. Actually, there are many way to win all the scenarios, and it's intended. Other players enjoyed building bridges and it's OK to me.

Friendly,
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Re: Return to Noelren 0.7.6

Post by yukipol »

There are various little inconsistencies, like very powerful abilities of Tiomen and some others never mentioned in any info, or different menus produced by Ctrl + R and right-click mouse, or petrified units coming alive when saved file is reloaded (Treachery-II), but now I have encountered a more serious one in Treachery-II: an infinite loop that I could not break.
It does not seem to matter whether I avoid reloading altogether or let Patti fight or have her just stand still, etc..
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pyrophorus
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Re: Return to Noelren 0.7.6

Post by pyrophorus »

yukipol wrote:There are various little inconsistencies, like very powerful abilities of Tiomen and some others never mentioned in any info, or different menus produced by Ctrl + R and right-click mouse, or petrified units coming alive when saved file is reloaded (Treachery-II), but now I have encountered a more serious one in Treachery-II: an infinite loop that I could not break.
It does not seem to matter whether I avoid reloading altogether or let Patti fight or have her just stand still, etc..
Well, it's difficult to say anything with so little details. Could post a savegame ?

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Re: Return to Noelren 0.7.6

Post by yukipol »

Treachery II:
I have been trying and failing to upload the last sequence I tried.
Is there a bound on the size of the upload?
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pyrophorus
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Re: Return to Noelren 0.7.6

Post by pyrophorus »

yukipol wrote:Treachery II:
I have been trying and failing to upload the last sequence I tried.
Is there a bound on the size of the upload?
Certainly (but I can't remember which), but I doubt it's the reason. What is the size of your file ?

Friendly,
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