Return to Noelren 0.7.6

[chak_abhi]

I at least won't mind if the difficulty of the campaign remains the same overall, as it gives the player the opportunity of understanding the story properly rather than going all out against hordes of enemies!
I didn't find any scenario really difficult, but "Defending Fremagel" appears somewhat irritating due to the large amount of gold of the enemies (which I reduced a bit to focus more on the story part).
Since this campaign's merit lies mostly in the story (and in the WML, but not all people understand it) I recommend that it will be better if the lacunae in the storyline are addressed first. Then at least all sensible people will be satisfied with the unfolding of events and the final outcome.

Spoiler:

I found the file you mentioned. But I can only handle simple WML, and the whole thing confuses me a lot. Will you please mention the code for once? If you are reluctant to post it in this forum you can always send me a private message. Thanks in advance.

[pyrophorus]

Hi !

So you're a "story-reader" player
OK, thanks for you good advices. BTW, Defending Fremagel is not intended to be winned killing enemy leaders. You only need to block the ford (which is really easy), but it's not forbidden to cross it and defeat the enemies. I'm sure some players will do that and manage to kill both dwarves leaders and even undeads later. But Fremagel castle will fall, whatever you choose to do.

Here is the code you asked for. BTW, it was not in RTN-scenario.cfg

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

What you need is this:
Put the macro somewhere in your utils files.
In the scenario, insert these lines:
Obviously, you don't need to duplicate the events if you already have one of this type. Just copy the content lines.

    [event]
        name=prestart
		{LSB_MENU_BUILDBRIDGE (type=Peasant) 1} #
    [/event]

	[event]
		name= new turn
		first_time_only=no
		
		{LSB_EVENT_BUILDBRIDGE}  # ----------- bridges

    [/event]

The macros use temporarily some variables: bridges, un and par. Don't use these names elsewhere in the scenario.
The bridge in progress is drawn using the picture "terrain/bridge/wood-dock-nw.png". Of course, you can change this
to something else (for myself, I certainly will).

#------------- Building bridges ---------------
# Context: in an event tag
# UFILTER: is a STDUF without filter tag: tells which units are allowed to create bridges. Use parenthesis to avoid problems.
# MENU: is a number to create the menu id. Set it to 1 if you have less than 7 distinct menus in your campaign.
#define LSB_MENU_BUILDBRIDGE UFILTER MENU
[set_menu_item]
	id=menu_{MENU}
	description= _ "Build a bridge"
	[show_if]
		[have_unit]
		[/have_unit]
	[/show_if]
	[filter_location]
		[filter_adjacent_location]
			[filter]
				{UFILTER}
			[/filter]
		[/filter_adjacent_location]
		[not]
			find_in=boats
		[/not]
		[not]
			find_in=bridges
		[/not]
		terrain=W*
	[/filter_location]
	[command]
		[store_unit]
			variable=un
			[filter]
				{UFILTER}
				[filter_location]
					[filter_adjacent_location]
						x,y=$x1,$y1
					[/filter_adjacent_location]
				[/filter_location]
			[/filter]
		[/store_unit]
		[if]
			[variable] # controlling if builder is already busy
				name=un[0].moves
				equals=0
			[/variable]
			[then]
				{LSB_DIAL_W "$un[0].name is already busy to build something !"}
			[/then]
			
			[else] # build
			[item]
				x,y=$x1,$y1
				image="terrain/bridge/wood-dock-nw.png"
			[/item]
			[modify_unit]
				[filter]
					id=$un[0].id
				[/filter]
				moves=0
			[/modify_unit]
			[store_locations]
				x,y=$x1,$y1
				variable=tmp
			[/store_locations]
			
			# calc bridge orientation
			[set_variable]
				name=par
				value=$x1
			[/set_variable]
			[set_variable]
				name=par
				modulo=2
			[/set_variable]
			[set_variable]
				name=un[0].y
				add=$par
			[/set_variable]
			
			[if]
				[variable]
					name=un[0].x
					equals=$x1
				[/variable]
				[then]
					[set_variable]
						name=tmp.terrain
						value="$tmp.terrain^Bw|"
					[/set_variable]
				[/then]
				[else]
					[if]
						[variable]
							name=un[0].x
							less_than=$x1
						[/variable]
						[then]
						[if]
							[variable]
								name=un[0].y
								greater_than=$y1
							[/variable]
							[then]
								[set_variable]
									name=tmp.terrain
									value="$tmp.terrain^Bw/"
								[/set_variable]
							[/then]
							[else]
								[set_variable]
									name=tmp.terrain
									value="$tmp.terrain^Bw\"
								[/set_variable]
							[/else]
						[/if]					
						[/then]
						
						[else]
						[if]
							[variable]
								name=un[0].y
								greater_than=$y1
							[/variable]
							[then]
								[set_variable]
									name=tmp.terrain
									value="$tmp.terrain^Bw\"
								[/set_variable]
							[/then]
							[else]
								[set_variable]
									name=tmp.terrain
									value="$tmp.terrain^Bw/"
								[/set_variable]
							[/else]
						[/if]					
						[/else]
					[/if]
				[/else]
			[/if] # end calc
					
			[set_variables] # store future bridge terrain which shall appear next turn
				name=bridges
				[value]
					x=$tmp.x
					y=$tmp.y
					terrain=$tmp.terrain
				[/value]
				mode=append
			[/set_variables]
			
			[fire_event]
				name=start_bridges
			[/fire_event]
			
			[/else] # end build OK
		[/if]
		{CLEAR_VARIABLE un,par}		
	[/command]
[/set_menu_item]
#enddef

#define LSB_EVENT_BUILDBRIDGE
# 	[event]
#		name= new turn

	{FOREACH bridges i}  # ----------- bridges
		[remove_item]
			x,y=$bridges[$i].x,$bridges[$i].y
		[/remove_item]			
		[terrain]
			x,y=$bridges[$i].x,$bridges[$i].y
			terrain=$bridges[$i].terrain
		[/terrain]
	{NEXT i}
	{CLEAR_VARIABLE bridges}
#enddef

[chak_abhi]

Thanks a lot.

[pyrophorus]

Hello everybody...

Just a word to say the campaign is not dead. I'm working on a new major version addressing the problems reported here, and much more, particularly characters improvements (AMLA, sprites, stats and so on).

I hope to upload version 0.7 in september.

Have fun...

[taptap]

I started to play around in Return to Noelren a little. I understand that it intends to be story-centered, offering puzzles etc.

Scenario 1

Spoiler:

Well, this is a play-along (without much effective choice) to engage more with the story than reading a long block of text would be. So much so fine. It would still profit from less orcs (reduces scrolling in the end) and a less stupid behaviour of the mayor. It hurts the eye of that the mayor has plenty of gold but stops recruiting because his initial keep is occupied by his initial recruit. Move them to the individual houses and keep recruiting (or make sth. else to make it look less stupid). I would give the arriving elves normal elf stats - you can even hard code the whole sequence how they kill the orcs, but there are players who look in the campaign unit tree and don't play campaigns with awfully overpowered units - never even started Legend of the Invincibles for this reason - and nothing tells them that they are just a plot device.

Scenario 2

Spoiler:

It is possible - in fact not even unlikely - to die here (especially against the knight), yet there is no start of scenario save. One of both should imho be changed otherwise you imply to the player that you expect them to play your campaign relying heavily on saveloads. In fact this is a problem with small group gameplay in Wesnoth in general. If you try to make it tricky then you can easily be killed by the RNG, but if you leave enough safety against bad luck it ultimately is easy to solve.

It is possible to trigger the knight before the fountain appeared on the map leading to utter confusion. Also it is possible to trigger the knight more than once.

Comment regarding overpowered plot-device units applies here as well.

I would like to see non-obvious move targets on the map not in the context menu. Maybe the red "please go here" overlay used elsewhere.

Story: It is very disturbing to me as an adult male, that the love interest (knightly romance interest) is depicted as a very underage child with wings. The normal shaman portrait has a young woman, using this or any alternative shaman portrait is much preferred. I am btw currently reading a book about medieval times and events like a 17 yr. old women starting (on her own initiative) a (knightly) romantic correspondence with an elderly writer are not unheard of, but especially as immersion is so important to a plot-centered campaign, I would urge to change the portrait.

[gosh]

Hi I'm currently on "errands". I'm having a slight problem...i can't end the scenario..Hint still shows "follow the coast to the simple village to the south", though all my units reached the other side..Besides, i also encountered some problems(bugs?) already mentioned here like units having HP more than max, no healing while on parallel worlds, own villages unflagged etc
The story is superb...i made it to "Errands" in 4 hours just to know how this story spans out....I'm using Version 1.10.2
Is there any way???

[pyrophorus]

@gosh

Hi I'm currently on "errands". I'm having a slight problem...i can't end the scenario..Hint still shows "follow the coast to the simple village to the south", though all my units reached the other side.

Try to move the carriage to the signpost at x=49-51, y=17-25 in map 1. It should always trigger the victory.

.Besides, i also encountered some problems(bugs?) already mentioned here like units having HP more than max, no healing while on parallel worlds, own villages unflagged etc

Yes, I know. The problem is Wesnoth engine only manage the current map at the beginning of your side turn (healing, villages management, etc). So I have to do these things in WML when maps are switched. Rather tricky, and not yet perfect...

The story is superb...i made it to "Errands" in 4 hours just to know how this story spans out....I'm using Version 1.10.2
Is there any way???

I hope you'll enjoy the remaining part of the story. Thanks for your comments and appreciation.

@taptap

I started to play around in Return to Noelren a little. I understand that it intends to be story-centered, offering puzzles etc.

That's right...

Scenario 1

Spoiler:

Well, this is a play-along (without much effective choice) to engage more with the story than reading a long block of text would be. So much so fine. It would still profit from less orcs (reduces scrolling in the end) and a less stupid behaviour of the mayor. It hurts the eye of that the mayor has plenty of gold but stops recruiting because his initial keep is occupied by his initial recruit. Move them to the individual houses and keep recruiting (or make sth. else to make it look less stupid). I would give the arriving elves normal elf stats - you can even hard code the whole sequence how they kill the orcs, but there are players who look in the campaign unit tree and don't play campaigns with awfully overpowered units - never even started Legend of the Invincibles for this reason - and nothing tells them that they are just a plot device.

OK...
I have worked on it to make this scenario as short as possible: that's why there are so many orcs, overpowered elves, stupid mayor and so on. Reading your comment, I think maybe it would be better to leave the scenario as it is on easy, and setting all humans on one side for normal and hard. This would give a battle like the first one of Northern Rebirth, more interesting for advanced players.
BTW, I wasn't aware players could look at the campaign unit tree. It's good to know. Super elves are not really needed in the campaign, but all main characters have some special abilities and advancement (for now they are overpowered, but I plan to nerf them, at least in normal and hard level.

Scenario 2
It is possible - in fact not even unlikely - to die here (especially against the knight), yet there is no start of scenario save. One of both should imho be changed otherwise you imply to the player that you expect them to play your campaign relying heavily on saveloads. In fact this is a problem with small group gameplay in Wesnoth in general. If you try to make it tricky then you can easily be killed by the RNG, but if you leave enough safety against bad luck it ultimately is easy to solve.

Yes, you're right. It's a difficult problem.

It is possible to trigger the knight before the fountain appeared on the map leading to utter confusion.

That's right, I wonder how so many people (including me) could miss that.

Also it is possible to trigger the knight more than once.

That's right but intended. Remember the Barenton fountain in Broceliande forest !

Comment regarding overpowered plot-device units applies here as well.

I would like to see non-obvious move targets on the map not in the context menu. Maybe the red "please go here" overlay used elsewhere.

I doubt it. I fear it would be only boring if all labyrinth exits were marked.

Story: It is very disturbing to me as an adult male, that the love interest (knightly romance interest) is depicted as a very underage child with wings. The normal shaman portrait has a young woman, using this or any alternative shaman portrait is much preferred. I am btw currently reading a book about medieval times and events like a 17 yr. old women starting (on her own initiative) a (knightly) romantic correspondence with an elderly writer are not unheard of, but especially as immersion is so important to a plot-centered campaign, I would urge to change the portrait.

Yes, but Lestiviel is underaged at the beginning of the story. She's about thirteen. Old enough to have romantic dreams, but knowing not clearly what she wants (a father ? an elder brother ? a love affair ?) and how to ask. In the second part (five years later), she is not still a child, and, of course, her portait change. For now, it is the elvish shyde, and I have posted a draft of a future portrait in Art Workshop. BTW, she will disappear rather quickly from first part, but I have put a lot of (hopely) charming women in the campaign. You shall meet them soon !

Thanks for your comments. I knew they would be very interesting. Actually, I have two ways to improve and finish this campaign: the first being focusing on story and special tricks, the second being to design hard level as a more conventionnal skirmish campaign. I don't know if I really can reach these two goals without getting a poor skirmish campaign and a worse story. In this, your opinion is precious.
Friendly,

[GrigA41]

pyrophorus,
please, tell where to download your campaign?

[pyrophorus]

Hi !
Well... on the add_ons server. The easiest way is to use Wesnoth itself (hit the button 'add ons' in the welcome screen).
Else, you can use http://http://addons.wesnoth.org/1.9/, but you'll have to install the campaign by yourself in the 'add_ons' folder.
Hope you'll enjoy it...
Friendly,

[GrigA41]

Thank you!
I couldn't find it in a list of 'add ons' inside the game, but it downloaded well from where you told. Now it's running, thanks again!

[pyrophorus]

Hi !
I don't understand why you didn't find it in the add-ons list. Which Wesnoth version do you use ?
Friendly,

[GrigA41]

Hi!
I use 1.11.0 version, on windows7. Add ons server: add-ons.wesnoth.org
Don't know why, but your, as bad as many others i found on web page you mentioned, are not listed in game...

B.t.w.: in the middle of Glynn_Forest mission appeared a notification (upper left corner of screen), something about incorrect working of 'sides_utils' and a sugestion to use some other file with almost the same name instead. I didn't give it much attention since the game was running OK and I dont remember the exact words. I belive it happend when two undead units appear after Tiomen took an Axe, but when I tryed to go through that moment again nothing happened.
When I found the way out of forest through a lake in the east (only Lestiviel could pass) the final dialog ended with error message and game returned to main menu.
"game_error: invalid side(4) found in unit definition"
I thought it happened because party members were not joint and tryed again, returning by the western trail. But the same error appeared.
I restarted Wesnoth and the notification didn't appear again, but the trouble continued.
So I'm stuck there.

[taptap]

Scenario 3 (018)

Spoiler:

The taming ability isn't exactly easy to understand - in this scenario it was probably the taming that led to a surprising mass conversion of peasants and woodsmen to my side. Ultimately the task is easy, as soon as you find the "light fire" option.

Scenario 4 (020)

Spoiler:

This one is an interesting idea. Though understanding the taming better would definitely help (need I stand next to the aim of the taming longer? do i have to slow the aim of the taming? is it just statistics? does it last or not - i once had a taming lasting only 4 turns if i recall correctly?). Also wolves can spawn very close to you.

Scenario 5 (030)

Spoiler:

Hmm. I ignored the orcs, triggered the elves and continued to ignore the orcs. It boils down to killing the bats w/ footpads and the mud crawlers with pierce/blade by the rangers and then closing in to the enemy leader. When I killed the leader some random bat upgrades to leader, this isn't to my liking. At this point it is easy to just move in and blow up the place the next turn anyway, so the respawning leader has no effect and can be omitted. The battle itself is very easy - why the outlaws volunteer to clean up mudcrawlers without having suitable units is the only thing to puzzle about.

Scenario 6 (040)

Spoiler:

Contrary to the description our shaman friend drowns. Similarly the sylph drowns. Both shouldn't. I wonder whether taking control of the map with water elementals waiting for undead to show up and clash with orcs and then to clean up the remains without bothering to go through marshes might not be the easier way through this scenario. Of course if I had better understanding of the taming mechanic I would try to get a cuttle fish on my side as well.

[pyrophorus]

Hi!
I use 1.11.0 version, on windows7. Add ons server: add-ons.wesnoth.org
Don't know why, but your, as bad as many others i found on web page you mentioned, are not listed in game...

The reason is you use 1.11.0. RtN works with Wesnoth 1.10 and I never tested it under 1.11 which is a development version. Same with the other add-ons you discovered on the page I quoted. The 1.11 game lists only 1.11 add-ons. That's why you get all these errors.

So I'm stuck there.

The best way is to install Wesnoth 1.10 (last stable version). You need not to uninstall 1.11, both are compatible. Then you'll be able to play my campaign (and many others).
Friendly,

[pyrophorus]

@taptap: thanks for this new report.


Scenario 3 (018)

Spoiler:

The taming ability isn't exactly easy to understand - in this scenario it was probably the taming that led to a surprising mass conversion of peasants and woodsmen to my side. Ultimately the task is easy, as soon as you find the "light fire" option.

No, this has nothing to do with the taming ability. It's an attempt to give some control on the villagers without having to move a lot of units each turn (I think it's boring). If Tiomen were alone on side 1, peasants would block completely the battlefield (and this too is boring).
The taming/petrifiying ability is passive only (in part 1). When an unit attacks successfully Lestiviel, she vanishes, and the unit is tamed (monsters and animals) or petrified (others).
I know there is little explanation on these two features. My idea is hints about these unusual features are to be found in the story and the dialogs, letting the player discover them in battle (and use them, of course, as you said: you could tame a cuttlefish or more in the To_Elensefar scenario and use them as cannon fodder). Giving full explanations would spoil the fun in my opinion. But you can think otherwise and I'm opened to discussion on a better way to give explanations. BTW, there are already more hints in the Help menu.

Scenario 4 (020)

Spoiler:

This one is an interesting idea. Though understanding the taming better would definitely help (need I stand next to the aim of the taming longer? do i have to slow the aim of the taming? is it just statistics? does it last or not - i once had a taming lasting only 4 turns if i recall correctly?). Also wolves can spawn very close to you.

The taming is permanent (change unit side) and I don't see how it could be reverted in the actual code.

Scenario 5 (030)

Spoiler:

Hmm. I ignored the orcs, triggered the elves and continued to ignore the orcs. It boils down to killing the bats w/ footpads and the mud crawlers with pierce/blade by the rangers and then closing in to the enemy leader. When I killed the leader some random bat upgrades to leader, this isn't to my liking. At this point it is easy to just move in and blow up the place the next turn anyway, so the respawning leader has no effect and can be omitted. The battle itself is very easy - why the outlaws volunteer to clean up mudcrawlers without having suitable units is the only thing to puzzle about.

Well, they're outlaws in the story and then not very effective in forest and swamps. If you have a suggestion I could change the recruit list of the outlaw chief (and the units created in the former scenario).

Scenario 6 (040)

Spoiler:

Contrary to the description our shaman friend drowns. Similarly the sylph drowns. Both shouldn't.

Of course... I'll check that soon.

I wonder whether taking control of the map with water elementals waiting for undead to show up and clash with orcs and then to clean up the remains without bothering to go through marshes might not be the easier way through this scenario. Of course if I had better understanding of the taming mechanic I would try to get a cuttle fish on my side as well.

In this scenario, I think both strategies equally works: you can cross the swamps, then orcs and undeads will not bother you that much. You can use the road, waiting undeads and orcs exhaust each other, and then you will not care much about the sea monsters. I have no problem with more than one winning strategy except if one is ridiculously easy.

Friendly,