Legend of the Invincibles

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Would you like the Skeletal Dragon sprite in LotI changed to mainline Skeletal Dragon sprite?

Yes
44
71%
No
18
29%
 
Total votes: 62

Thomas88
Posts: 10
Joined: November 23rd, 2010, 7:22 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles and RPG AMLA Era feedback

Post by Thomas88 » March 8th, 2012, 10:27 am

Hi dugi,

I was also "banished" unluckily from internet for a few days.
Thanks for thinking about (and changing) the end of the campaign, and for the new version.
That would give the end of your (very good!) campaign perhaps the "polished section" > ???, in german we call it "letzter Schliff" :D

I think in one or two years I will play it again...!

My "P.S." was not so important...

Greetings again !!!

Thomas

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles and RPG AMLA Era feedback

Post by Dugi » March 8th, 2012, 11:41 am

In 1-2 years, the campaign might be complete already (all 7 10 chapters)... So the 4th chapter was not the 'letzter Schliff' or 'finishing touch'.
I hope you'll enjoy the 4th chapter.

At the moment, I am working on RPG AMLA Era for v1.10 (feedback here), I have some issues to imagine some details of chapter 5 (well, I can do it with 7 chapters, but that would be too short, and too similar to chapters 2 and 4).

EDIT: I got an idea.

EDIT #2: I had to make version 2.0.4., there was a bug in the Nemesis scenario that could prevent you from being capable to complete it under certain circumstaces.

EDIT #3 (from 6th November 2013): Due to a change in plans for evens after chapter 5, the final length is 10 chapters, not 7 as originally posted here.
Last edited by Dugi on November 6th, 2013, 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

t3st3r
Posts: 53
Joined: September 21st, 2008, 8:54 pm

I have a bug :)

Post by t3st3r » March 11th, 2012, 12:23 am

Well, I have a bug I can't work around easily. I'm using BfW 1.9.14 on 64-bit Xubuntu, Legends of the Invisibles 2.0.3

When I'm on chapter 3, 1st scenario (continued from previous ones), killing will-o-wisp leader seems to cause some serious trouble: savegames are getting invalid at this point and BfW completely refuses to load such savegames with short error message "The file you have tried to load is corrupt".

Example savegames are attached:
LotI1-Thirst_for_Adventures_Turn_9+1.gz - before killing wisp leader - savegames are working. You can use any unit to kill wisp and ruin further savegames so they will not load anymore.

LotI1-Thirst_for_Adventures_Turn_9+2.gz - just killed wisp and saved. Will not load and will cause error message "The file you have tried to load is corrupt". All further savegames are broken and will not load (including autosaves).

Additionally I can admit at least some extra errors on this map:
1) Wisps activity could cause some events to fire outside of player's control/wishes, i.e. when some mist reaches bandits or necromancers area, their events fire and they start roaming the lands even if player is far away. I'm not sure this is intended behavior since objective is set to go to city rather than deal with those annoyances immediately. Furthermore I'm not sure if dealing with activated bandits/undeads before visiting city will be handled correctly.
2) Ignorance of bandits caused bt 1) (due to objectives, etc) could also lead to killing one of horsemens (that one closer to them). I'm not sure if this is what causes bugs, but looks like if some part of messages in dialogs does not appears as the result (lack of appropriate speaker unit?).
3) Looks like some events could be fired several times. Say, entering city with various units appears to cause the same event to fire for several times. I see no reasons to fire certain city event more than once. This only seems to cause some funny bugs/issues

At the end I got stuck at 1st scenario of chapter 3. I was able to reach city, get idea to kill necromancer, kill him and then entering city - objective remains to enter city. Delly and Argan appear but no new objectives -> unclean how to win it.

P.S. Btw, AMLA, some L4 units and randomly dropping items are really cool. Boring AMLAs with +3hp is what I absolutely hate in default BfW behavior. It's so boring. Your AMLAs are definitely add more fun to game. Say, I was able to slay whole skeletal army by carefully moving few powerful units to screen weaker ones.

Though there were some bugs as well.
1) Sometimes item could fail to disappear, being usable multiple times, even on single uint. As a result, you can create a really overpowered units, in fact there is no upper limit as the result :)
2) On other hand, sometimes item appears but stepping over it haves no effect. Seems to happen when more than 1 item dropped or so.
3) Well, there is no any indication which unit haves which items. Furthermore, applying more than 1 item to same unit could lead to a really strange and odd combinations. Being able to get some swords 5 times in a row and then all 5 times your attack is improved? Huh, I can expect one melee weapon to replace other, maybe sticking to best. However improving attack for 5 times, making it very powerful? Seems to be surrealistic a bit. After all, you can't use 5 weapons in the same time in one attack. At least I fail to imagine how this attack could look unless there is 6-handed Shiva unit in game, etc :)
4) Well, after killing dragon in caves for 1st time it dropped an armor. The only problem is that it has been completely unsuitable for any unit in my army (claimed to be only for humans). And it's not looks like if I had chance to recruit humans somewhere??
5) When you kill some leader and this leads to victory, you can't pickup it's drop because you won scenario and can't walk anymore. Should I admit this is somewhat frustrating? You can see your drop but can't pick it up due to victory, which is a bit odd :)

Bonus bug: when AI takes control of hero units and their loss is fatal I could suggest AI to be adjusted to be careful and value it's leader. AI tends to perform aggressive and risky attacks by leader. This sometimes leads to leader loss and lost scenario. But I can't control AI moves! This forces several reloads and attempts to workaround overaggressive AI leader attacks by blocking leader path with my own units, which is tricky. Most notably I lost in the end of Chapter 2 (Lilith temple battle) because AI-controlled Argan has performed some suicidal attacks on super-heroes who are able to kill him quickly. Which obviously leads to scenario loss. It was not easy to prevent this behavior and it took several reloads to make ai stop his suicidal attacks.
Attachments
LotI1-Thirst_for_Adventures_Turn_9+1.gz
working savegame (before wisp kill).
(257.78 KiB) Downloaded 198 times
LotI1-Thirst_for_Adventures_Turn_9+2.gz
Corrupt savegame (after wisp kill).
(258.09 KiB) Downloaded 190 times

RainerT
Posts: 59
Joined: May 16th, 2011, 7:53 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles and RPG AMLA Era feedback

Post by RainerT » March 11th, 2012, 7:52 am

Hi,

I just startet the campaign and in the 'Paradise Lost' scenario I found the Staff of Aimucasur. I should get an additional magic attack, but nothing happens. It doesn't matter which unit I use. I'm playing 2.0.4 with BfW 1.10.1.

Rainer

ydcl
Posts: 253
Joined: December 22nd, 2008, 2:10 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles and RPG AMLA Era feedback

Post by ydcl » March 11th, 2012, 11:44 pm

Hi, I'm playing on windows xp bfw 1.10.1, the part III of the campaign, and all the save files are corrupted.

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Dugi
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Re: I have a bug :)

Post by Dugi » March 12th, 2012, 12:08 pm

t3st3r wrote:Well, I have a bug I can't work around easily. I'm using BfW 1.9.14 on 64-bit Xubuntu, Legends of the Invisibles 2.0.3
When I'm on chapter 3, 1st scenario (continued from previous ones), killing will-o-wisp leader seems to cause some serious trouble: savegames are getting invalid at this point and BfW completely refuses to load such savegames with short error message "The file you have tried to load is corrupt".
This is a very tricky problem, because on the majority of computers (including mine, both OS, Ubuntu and Win7), this causes no issues. I decided to rename the Will'o'Wisp to Will_o_Wisp (only the ID, not the displayed name), I hope it will work now.
Additionally I can admit at least some extra errors on this map:
1) Wisps activity could cause some events to fire outside of player's control/wishes, i.e. when some mist reaches bandits or necromancers area, their events fire and they start roaming the lands even if player is far away. I'm not sure this is intended behavior since objective is set to go to city rather than deal with those annoyances immediately. Furthermore I'm not sure if dealing with activated bandits/undeads before visiting city will be handled correctly.
2) Ignorance of bandits caused bt 1) (due to objectives, etc) could also lead to killing one of horsemens (that one closer to them). I'm not sure if this is what causes bugs, but looks like if some part of messages in dialogs does not appears as the result (lack of appropriate speaker unit?).
3) Looks like some events could be fired several times. Say, entering city with various units appears to cause the same event to fire for several times. I see no reasons to fire certain city event more than once. This only seems to cause some funny bugs/issues
Now, enemies should ignore everyone except you.
At the end I got stuck at 1st scenario of chapter 3. I was able to reach city, get idea to kill necromancer, kill him and then entering city - objective remains to enter city. Delly and Argan appear but no new objectives -> unclean how to win it.
Although it worked for most people, these problems are so annoying that killing the lich will now win the scenario.
1) Sometimes item could fail to disappear, being usable multiple times, even on single uint. As a result, you can create a really overpowered units, in fact there is no upper limit as the result
Which items they were? It looks like a typo, and it is freaking hard to identify them.
2) On other hand, sometimes item appears but stepping over it haves no effect. Seems to happen when more than 1 item dropped or so.
I know about this and it is partially intentional. In order to prevent this, I would need to create a lot more events that would cause the game to need really a lot of time to load. The probability that this would happen is low, so I've let it be. I might figure out a workaround, anyway.
3) Well, there is no any indication which unit haves which items. Furthermore, applying more than 1 item to same unit could lead to a really strange and odd combinations. Being able to get some swords 5 times in a row and then all 5 times your attack is improved? Huh, I can expect one melee weapon to replace other, maybe sticking to best. However improving attack for 5 times, making it very powerful? Seems to be surrealistic a bit. After all, you can't use 5 weapons in the same time in one attack. At least I fail to imagine how this attack could look unless there is 6-handed Shiva unit in game, etc
This would make a unit with crazy offence, maybe capable to challenge the preserved liches in power, but still relatively easy to kill. It is like I intended, one unit can be only at one place and can attack only one unit, while putting these items on multiple units would spread the power better. Also, it is impossible to remove items from units, and the only way to do it is to code an inventory system, and that is something I don't want to do, LotI was not supposed to be an RPG (and it also needs a lot of handler events, and the inventory system itself causes 5 extra seconds to the scenario loading time). The units know to use magic to merge multiple items together. I will try to find a way to limit the damage bonuses from weapons.
4) Well, after killing dragon in caves for 1st time it dropped an armor. The only problem is that it has been completely unsuitable for any unit in my army (claimed to be only for humans). And it's not looks like if I had chance to recruit humans somewhere??
5) When you kill some leader and this leads to victory, you can't pickup it's drop because you won scenario and can't walk anymore. Should I admit this is somewhat frustrating? You can see your drop but can't pick it up due to victory, which is a bit odd
Items drop randomly. Any unit can drop anything. The first orc you kill in An Orcish Assault can drop a Potion of Insane Speed. The dropped item may be useful to you, and it might be also useless. Leaders usually drop items, but not all leaders. It was intended that only the leaders you don't have to kill drop items, and if some of them have to drop them, some don't have, it is solved simply that you won't be able to pick it up, otherwise it would need ages for the scenario to load.
Bonus bug: when AI takes control of hero units and their loss is fatal I could suggest AI to be adjusted to be careful and value it's leader. AI tends to perform aggressive and risky attacks by leader. This sometimes leads to leader loss and lost scenario. But I can't control AI moves! This forces several reloads and attempts to workaround overaggressive AI leader attacks by blocking leader path with my own units, which is tricky. Most notably I lost in the end of Chapter 2 (Lilith temple battle) because AI-controlled Argan has performed some suicidal attacks on super-heroes who are able to kill him quickly. Which obviously leads to scenario loss. It was not easy to prevent this behavior and it took several reloads to make ai stop his suicidal attacks.
I would not call it bug. Can you please tell me when do you encounter these problems? For example, I have never had problems with Argan attacking anything. Now, it is impossible to him him, but tell me who should have this kind of protection as well.
I just startet the campaign and in the 'Paradise Lost' scenario I found the Staff of Aimucasur. I should get an additional magic attack, but nothing happens. It doesn't matter which unit I use. I'm playing 2.0.4 with BfW 1.10.1.
It was bugged. Now it should add it, but not the one in your save file :(

Run Update Add-Ons to have it fixed.

t3st3r
Posts: 53
Joined: September 21st, 2008, 8:54 pm

Re: I have a bug :)

Post by t3st3r » March 13th, 2012, 8:18 am

dugi wrote: This is a very tricky problem, because on the majority of computers (including mine, both OS, Ubuntu and Win7), this causes no issues. I decided to rename the Will'o'Wisp to Will_o_Wisp (only the ID, not the displayed name), I hope it will work now.
Well, for me it does. Also I can remember another occausion of savegames corruption somewhere else but I just worked it around without getting idea what has caused this. In this particular case I was able to pinpoint problem to a very specific point in time. I definitely should update and retry this scenario :)
Although it worked for most people, these problems are so annoying that killing the lich will now win the scenario.
Well, I seen the code which would also ask me if I want to beat some bandits and found some extra map, but I never seen this request and looks like half of speech has been swallowed or something like this. Sad.
Which items they were? It looks like a typo, and it is freaking hard to identify them.
It has been Holy Sword. Do you need savegame where this has happened? I was able to figure out where is it so you can do the trick on your own if you want. Well, I also (ab)used this bug a bit for fun to create couple of cool units by stepping this sword couple of times, etc :D. Btw, this sword seems to have yet another bug related to him: "illuminates" aura would disappear when unit levels up, though description still says it haves illuminates ability. At very least, leveled units lack visible light aura which is normally shown for "illuminating" units. I haven't checked if combat takes in account light aura when it becomes invisible or not.
I know about this and it is partially intentional. In order to prevent this, I would need to create a lot more events that would cause the game to need really a lot of time to load. The probability that this would happen is low, so I've let it be. I might figure out a workaround, anyway
Well, currently my load times are fairly acceptable. I would consider frequent loading as cheat/bug/own failure anyway. There should be no need to load frequently as long as player haven't chosen level he obviously can't handle or did something horribly wrong. In fact I'm trying to get rid of my behavior to reload games on small errors, etc to learn to play better :)
This would make a unit with crazy offence, maybe capable to challenge the preserved liches in power, but still relatively easy to kill
.
Well, there are also some items who improves defence/resistances so in principle you can create "almost super"-unit somewhat comparable to preserved liches. Though I don't know if this a completely bug since I allowed to control these liches (which is a real fun, esp. after upgrades :mrgreen:). But anyway I can suggest to make this process a little harder by tracking currently equipped items and replacing them with better ones (as long as you can find it). Well, if this too hard, it's not fatal, just could prevent creation of a really overpowered units in too easy and fast ways (without killing enough things for XP to get AMLA upgrades). Though for me it's obvious that I prefer to control relatively few strong units rather than hundreds of weaklings.
It is like I intended, one unit can be only at one place and can attack only one unit, while putting these items on multiple units would spread the power better.
Well, maybe I overestimated the matters granted that I only was able to see Elvish Seer at the end of 2nd campaign or so and haven't seen some L4 units so far even at start of 3rd part... so maybe it's in fact OK.
Also, it is impossible to remove items from units, and the only way to do it is to code an inventory system, and that is something I don't want to do, LotI was not supposed to be an RPG (and it also needs a lot of handler events, and the inventory system itself causes 5 extra seconds to the scenario loading time). The units know to use magic to merge multiple items together.
Well, as for me I wouldn't mind 5 seconds more or 5 seconds less because load should not happen often. Yet missing infication of unit's special abilities forces me to read descriptions all the time. This slows things down for sure. And well, I have nothing against RPG-like campaigns. Granted there are several powerful heroes, it would look a bit RPG-like anyway :). And in fact inventory systems aren't that uncommon in strategies as well (say, HMM series of strategies implements inventory).
Items drop randomly. Any unit can drop anything. The first orc you kill in An Orcish Assault can drop a Potion of Insane Speed. The dropped item may be useful to you, and it might be also useless. Leaders usually drop items, but not all leaders.
Ahh, got it. The sad part though is that you can't pick up when you kill last leader. Then you win and so can't pick things up for sure. Though I guess it is not easy to workaround.
Bonus bug: when AI takes control of hero units and their loss is fatal I could suggest AI to be adjusted to be careful and value it's leader. AI tends to perform aggressive and risky attacks by leader. This sometimes leads to leader loss and lost scenario. But I can't control AI moves! This forces several reloads and attempts to workaround overaggressive AI leader attacks by blocking leader path with my own units, which is tricky. Most notably I lost in the end of Chapter 2 (Lilith temple battle) because AI-controlled Argan has performed some suicidal attacks on super-heroes who are able to kill him quickly. Which obviously leads to scenario loss. It was not easy to prevent this behavior and it took several reloads to make ai stop his suicidal attacks.
I would not call it bug. Can you please tell me when do you encounter these problems? For example, I have never had problems with Argan attacking anything. Now, it is impossible to him him, but tell me who should have this kind of protection as well.
1) Argan has been over-aggressive on map where you have to save Delly and her city from hordes of orcs and trolls. Well, it's supposed that Argan and his soldiers will appear and attack, that's okay. However, in my case Argan implemented incredibly dumb and suicidal move, stepping into the river to finish some troll. Then other trolls finished him easily and scenario lost. Though it't not like if I can somehow prevent such a dumb movies. Fortunately upon game reload random things gone in different ways, causing Argan to perform less suicidal move and I was able to win so I would consider this only as minor annoyance/bad luck, but if there are ways for AI to make it value leader higher, I guess it have to be adjusted :)
2) In Lilith Temple Argan has attacked few powerful support super-units first and got half-damaged as the result. Then he sneaked to Umbra in this state faster than I can reach him and occupied hex around him, close to Corruptia as well (who was still evil at this point). And guess what? They got him in couple of turns! Granted that he occupies the hex and I only had 2 other hexes for my units to deal with Umbra, you can guess that even preserved liches are unable to kill super-hero in just 2 turns. So it took a dozen of reloads to figure out how to screen Argan from powerful support units to prevent it getting bad damage and block his path to delay him at entry so at least I would have a bit more time to deal with Umbra. In fact I would prefer Argan to stay away from super-heroes as AI seems to be unable to evaluate when it about to lose his super-hero on next turn so it never does a fallback retreat, even if things are obviously bad for his superhero. So I lost battle in Lilith temple a number of times due to AI controlled Argan. In fact the hardest challenge on this map I encontered has been to prevent his stupid death in temple :). Delly also prefers to act in suicidal ways, but at least I can see this is handled by WML events and does not leads to loss (and in my case she survived, with almost zero HPs though). In fact I'm getting to think you're better to transfer all super-heroes to my side so I can control them on my own to prevent all this AI dumbness :)
Run Update Add-Ons to have it fixed.
Sure! :mrgreen:

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles and RPG AMLA Era feedback

Post by Dugi » March 13th, 2012, 12:28 pm

Well, I seen the code which would also ask me if I want to beat some bandits and found some extra map, but I never seen this request and looks like half of speech has been swallowed or something like this. Sad.
Probably because the knight has been slain. Now enemies should ignore his side.
It has been Holy Sword. Do you need savegame where this has happened? I was able to figure out where is it so you can do the trick on your own if you want. Well, I also (ab)used this bug a bit for fun to create couple of cool units by stepping this sword couple of times, etc . Btw, this sword seems to have yet another bug related to him: "illuminates" aura would disappear when unit levels up, though description still says it haves illuminates ability. At very least, leveled units lack visible light aura which is normally shown for "illuminating" units. I haven't checked if combat takes in account light aura when it becomes invisible or not.
It should have been corrected, but not in the save where you had it. Just to be sure, did the graphics of the item disappear when you took it (but it remained possible to take something there again)?
The illuminates aura did not vanish, only the graphical part disappeared (because the illumination halo effect is not related to an ability, rather a property of the unit itself, and therefore if the unit advances, this kind of change will not persist). I forgot about that, To fix it, I will make a handler event simply making all units gain that halo after that they level-up.
Well, currently my load times are fairly acceptable. I would consider frequent loading as cheat/bug/own failure anyway. There should be no need to load frequently as long as player haven't chosen level he obviously can't handle or did something horribly wrong. In fact I'm trying to get rid of my behavior to reload games on small errors, etc to learn to play better
It does not delay the loading of save files (only for the first time). For me, it lags for 5-10 seconds before loading, and it is terribly annoying when I want to find out why something is broken and I need to reload it for ten times, after each minor correction/correction attempt.
Well, there are also some items who improves defence/resistances so in principle you can create "almost super"-unit somewhat comparable to preserved liches. Though I don't know if this a completely bug since I allowed to control these liches (which is a real fun, esp. after upgrades ). But anyway I can suggest to make this process a little harder by tracking currently equipped items and replacing them with better ones (as long as you can find it). Well, if this too hard, it's not fatal, just could prevent creation of a really overpowered units in too easy and fast ways (without killing enough things for XP to get AMLA upgrades). Though for me it's obvious that I prefer to control relatively few strong units rather than hundreds of weaklings.
I think I have figured something out, a way to make a unit lose all weapons except the last one picked (making a dummy weapon special to make sure you know that the unit already has a weapon might be useful too), but it would need to redo the whole items' macro system. I am trying to do that in RPG AMLA Era, where it is much easier to test at the moment, I will port it into LotI once it is working properly.

And the problems with dumb allies - still weird that I had no problem like that... maybe a coincidence... I will make sure that they will be protected somehow later (less than 30 hp -> impossible to hit). There should not be too many problems of this kind after chapter 2, if you have allies there, they are usually recruiting far away from the enemy lines.

EDIT: I have figured out a way to remove an item from a unit, without having to rebuild the whole system (it was much more complicated that I expected it to be, removing an object does not update the unit's properties, it has to advance, but that causes issues with AMLA, I had to kill the unit and replace it with a new one with the same properties, and this was somewhat bugged and I had to make a workaround, but it seems to be impossible; but I managed to do it with advancing it and altering all advancements to prevent that clash). The other way to remove objects is based on counter objects, objects that are given to units when items are removed in order to negate its effects and adding a few variables that determine what has the unit equipped to decide which counter object to use.

RainerT
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles feedback

Post by RainerT » March 17th, 2012, 8:55 am

I just startet the campaign and in the 'Paradise Lost' scenario I found the Staff of Aimucasur. I should get an additional magic attack, but nothing happens. It doesn't matter which unit I use. I'm playing 2.0.4 with BfW 1.10.1.
It was bugged. Now it should add it, but not the one in your save file :(

Run Update Add-Ons to have it fixed.
I ignored the item and went on, but I updated later on due to the Wisp bug.


There is another bug with a unit type. In chapter three I have a loyal ranger. When she upgrades to an avenger, the avatar and picture disappear, she can't move anymore and has a defence of 0%. In the next scenario she is completly gone. I didn't have problems with upgrading rangers before, but they were males and this is the firest female. Perhaps it has something to do with that.


I also found a few more item bugs:

The red potion just heal, but doesn't give 20 extra hp as mentioned in the description.

t3st3r mentioned an armor that can only be used by elves and humans according to the description, but it can't be used with any available unit. The same thing happens in my game. Similarily, I found a staff that is only for staff wielder. I tried to pick it up with a mage and a necromancer, but none could use it.

There are two items that show no pic on the map and can be found only by luck. It's the the Poisonous Bow and the Icy Armor. Moreover the Icy Armor seems to be "scatterd". It is available on a few fields and not just the one it was droped.

The Sharp Sword gives fire damage, which isn't mentioned in the description and it shouldn't, because you can get it from the Flaming Sword.

The knockback from the Massive Sword has a strange effect. If you kill an enemy, it's not gone, but pushed one field and has hp below zero.

If an identical item is dropped a second time on the map, the first one is still visible on the map, but you can't pick it up.



In general I really like the system with all the items and character upgrades, but there are also some issues. I play on normal and IMHO it is to easy for that difficulty. There is also the point t3st3r mentioned, that it's to easy to overpower a unit with items. There should be some limitations.

One thing in chapter three annoyed me. You always get all of your loyal and elvish troups at the beginning. I have quite a lot of them and it is really tedious to move them all, especially in caves. I'd prefer the ordinary way with calling troops at the beginning. Moreover, you should make a cut with the verterans at the end of chapter two. A good idea would be, you can call a few veteran troops after the final battle, which are taken over to chapter three. There you can call first level troops, loyal as well as normal and the few veterans taken over. Otherwise, new troops don't make a lot of sense, because you fight basically with your veterans.

Rainer

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles feedback

Post by Dugi » March 19th, 2012, 2:19 pm

The items drop much more than I expected that they will drop. You are right, there should be some kind of limitation, like one weapon per unit, one armour per unit etc, as those stack sickly.

Therefore, I will create a new item macro system (I know what do do and how to do, but programming it and debugging it would take much longer), that would make all the unit type verifications easier to debug, remove a weapon if you pick a new one (but will not remove a sword when you take a bow), display equipped items as abilities or weapon specials, allow more items of the same type lie on the map and shorten the loading delays. I am developping a part of it for RPG AMLA Era, but as you the items there are bought instead, it is not the same. Here it is also much easier for debugging, so when finished, it will be brought here.
Anyway, the reports about other item bugs, the invisible items and fiery sharp sword, came useful to me.

Difficulty feedback is also very helpful, I could not determinate the effect of items on the game's difficulty, and the last balancing occurred at version 2.0.0.

About veterans in chapter 3, you can recall them and make the beginning of the campaign easier, but it is not such as a good idea. The chapter 3 troops are loyal and autorecalled, saving loads of gold over the scenarios. You don't always have a keep at the beginning of a scenario, you don't have much gold, especially in the scenarios where you have no village gold, etc. I should write a warning about that at the beginning of the first scenario. Btw, you don't have to go anywhere with the autorecalled units, you can easily leave them at the beginning and they will be recalled later if they are not suitable for that scenario (especially elves in the caves).

The avenger bug is very strange, because the avenger is a unit taken from the core files simply with altered hp, damage and advancement, no change at all regarding anything related to its female form. The Ranger was not altered for about 20 months, and no one ever reported an error with it. Also the kind of problem is really weird, and although I have encountered a lot of weird errors, I have never seen anything like that. File corruption maybe? Can you please post a save file with that problem?

RainerT
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles feedback

Post by RainerT » March 23rd, 2012, 8:51 am

dugi wrote:The items drop much more than I expected that they will drop. You are right, there should be some kind of limitation, like one weapon per unit, one armour per unit etc, as those stack sickly.
This seems to be a reasonable idea. It would be nice, if you could watch one or another way, which items a unit has. If I remeber correctly, bows add their bonus to magic attacks as well. They should just give their bonus to physical ranged attacks.

Anyway, the reports about other item bugs, the invisible items and fiery sharp sword, came useful to me.
I just found another buggy item. The Silver Axe adds also fire damage.

Difficulty feedback is also very helpful, I could not determinate the effect of items on the game's difficulty, and the last balancing occurred at version 2.0.0.
The overpowering is the biggest problem.

About veterans in chapter 3, you can recall them and make the beginning of the campaign easier, but it is not such as a good idea. The chapter 3 troops are loyal and autorecalled, saving loads of gold over the scenarios. You don't always have a keep at the beginning of a scenario, you don't have much gold, especially in the scenarios where you have no village gold, etc. I should write a warning about that at the beginning of the first scenario. Btw, you don't have to go anywhere with the autorecalled units, you can easily leave them at the beginning and they will be recalled later if they are not suitable for that scenario (especially elves in the caves).
The point is, that all elvish verterans are recalled as well from scenario two onwards. As long as there is no time limit and you end up with a huge minus anyway, you can take time and try to level the new loyal units. It is still tempting to use the old veterans, since the loyal troops are weak at first level and it is expensive to buy new ones. In scenarios with time limit you must use the high level veterans to finish the scenario as fast as possible due to the high costs from the big number of autorecalled units. I used my loyal units rarly, since I didn't know before, which scenario is good for levelling and which isn't. If you have a lot of elvish level one units from chapter two in your list, they cost you alot of money and aren't really helpful. You can't even get rid of them other than killing them deliberatly. It is also a bit painful to get an overview at the beginnig of a scenario due to the high number of troops at a small place. By the way, could you add the appropriate marker for loyal units? It is quite nice to see straight away which units are loyal an which aren't.

I know it would need alot of changes to remove that autocalling, but I hope it isn't going on in later chapters. I terms of the verteran units, you should still think about cutting them down in numbers, if you do any further chapters. Otherwise it is less and less interesting to call new units.

The avenger bug is very strange, because the avenger is a unit taken from the core files simply with altered hp, damage and advancement, no change at all regarding anything related to its female form. The Ranger was not altered for about 20 months, and no one ever reported an error with it. Also the kind of problem is really weird, and although I have encountered a lot of weird errors, I have never seen anything like that. File corruption maybe? Can you please post a save file with that problem?
I send a saves game to you.

t3st3r
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles and RPG AMLA Era feedback

Post by t3st3r » March 25th, 2012, 4:51 pm

dugi wrote:Probably because the knight has been slain. Now enemies should ignore his side.
Looks like this. Strangely enough that Wesnoth completely skipped request. Now fixed version has worked for me, thanks.
It should have been corrected, but not in the save where you had it. Just to be sure, did the graphics of the item disappear when you took it (but it remained possible to take something there again)?
No, item stays on map, including its picture. Should I retry savegames "from scratch" to get rid of this bug? Got quite the same issue later in part 3 (using more recent campaign version) with Unholy Axe. I've attached sample screenshot. You see, I picked it up with 2 units: mage and infantry man. I marked axe in question with red.

This screenshot also pictures another bugged item, an armor (exact item name isn't mentioned in any dialog). It's description dialog tells that it only usable for humans and elves except agile fighters. However, even heavy infantryman can't pick it up. This is definitely human and not any kind of "agile fighter" for sure. Why can't infanrtyman pick it up? That's some bug?

I also detected that some auras/attacks could cause damage to friendly AI units. For example on this map ("End of All Hopes") I both poisoned friendly AI leader by unit's aura which is only supposed to harm enemies and then Lethalia explosive damage also hurts not just enemy units but allied AI units as well. While I can imagine it could be okay (after all explosions usually not so picky what exactly to destroy) at least attacks descriptions should admit this fact if it's "by design".
The illuminates aura did not vanish, only the graphical part disappeared(because the illumination halo effect is not related to an ability

Ahh, thanks for explaination.
It does not delay the loading of save files (only for the first time). For me, it lags for 5-10 seconds before loading, and it is terribly annoying when I want to find out why something is broken and I need to reload it for ten times, after each minor correction/correction attempt

Ahh I see, it's several seconds delay before scenario starts where CPU is completely busy by BfW. Though it happens rarely so it's more or less acceptable (though as for me it's not bad to place warning that game isn't hunged for those with really slow PCs).
I am trying to do that in RPG AMLA Era, where it is much easier to test at the moment, I will port it into LotI once it is working properly
I see, and in fact I like this idea. As for me, default AMLA really sucks in BfW. In fact, for humans it's easier to control few powerful inits with special abilities and tricks than 50 identical weaklings :mrgreen:. To my taste, controlling 50 weaklings takes too much mouse clicking.
And the problems with dumb allies - still weird that I had no problem like that... maybe a coincidence... I will make sure that they will be protected somehow later (less than 30 hp -> impossible to hit). There should not be too many problems of this kind after chapter 2, if you have allies there, they are usually recruiting far away from the enemy lines.

Well, as you see I had that problem twice in 1st and 2nd parts. You see, in BfW random takes a significant part of gameplay, so when you test it yourself, you're not necessarily get absolutely best or absolutely worst cases. On other hand you can get absolute best/worst cases and then underestimate/overestimate something, etc.
EDIT: I have figured out a way to remove an item from a unit, without having to rebuild the whole system (it was much more complicated that I expected it to be, removing an object does not update the unit's properties, it has to advance, but that causes issues with AMLA, I had to kill the unit and replace it with a new one with the same properties, and this was somewhat bugged and I had to make a workaround, but it seems to be impossible; but I managed to do it with advancing it and altering all advancements to prevent that clash). The other way to remove objects is based on counter objects, objects that are given to units when items are removed in order to negate its effects and adding a few variables that determine what has the unit equipped to decide which counter object to use.
I'm also curious on the fact some items could be mutually exclusive or use same place on units. Sometimes you can have a really strange combos. Though it could count as feature as well :mrgreen:. But sometimes it's really strange. Say, poison flask which also poisons it's owner + some regeneration item leads to unit being poisoned on begin of every scenario. Then it cured by regeneration. But wouldn't it be more logical to completely negate self-poisoning part of poison flask when unit learns regeneration anyhow? Even more strange thing is that if you'll load savegame, unit will be poisoned on this turn, even if it wasn't when game has been saved, so savegame happens to be not a 100% exact restore of old game state :shock:. Though it can be considered as a feature: little penalty for savegames reload learns to play better, sure :mrgreen:
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles feedback

Post by Dugi » March 26th, 2012, 12:20 pm

On Friday, I have released a version fixing some bugs mentioned before, including that vanishing elvish avenger bug.
Also, the graphics for elvish gryphon riders were fixed (so they are not shaking on the gryphons).

Okay, version 2.0.7 is out. The items' drop system is completely redone, completely different from the way items appear elsewhere. Of course, it is useful only if there is a lot of items available, but in this case, it is definitely better. The save file size is smaller (but save files of LotI are still enormous compared to other campaigns, specific AMLA is the cause), more items of the same kind can be on the ground, requirements should be better organised, and most of all, it is impossible to carry two armours (swords, rings, bows,...), when a unit picks a second one, the old one drops and can be picked up by another unit. Most items are displayed as abilities or weapon specials to the units. Some items (and also advancements) will change the attack icons.

The chapter 3 autorecall problem was solved, only units recruited in chapter 3 are autorecalled. Oh, and btw, the loyal units recruited in chapter 3 have a much better after maximum level advancement than the other ones.

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Re: Legend of the Invincibles feedback

Post by Rowanthepreacher » March 28th, 2012, 12:08 am

Well, I'm well into chapte 3 and I've got to say, so far this is my second favourite campaign ever! Well done, sir, and thank you for taknig the time and effort to make it.

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Re: Legend of the Invincibles feedback

Post by Dugi » March 28th, 2012, 5:57 am

I am glad you liked it.

Edit: I had to make version 2.0.8. It fixes two older bugs (I thought I had fixed), adds 4 crossbows to the drop list, and adds Deathlord, a level 4 advancement of Draug and Death Knight.

Edit #2: I accidentally released version 2.0.9, that is compatible with Wesnoth 1.11. It is fully playable also on Wesnoth 1.10, adding a new unit, Reaper, advancing from both Spectre and Nightgaunt. Also, Soulless can now advance to Revenant, Skeleton can now advance to Chocobone and Revenant can now advance to Death Knight.

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