Legend of the Invincibles

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply

Which of these units you find worth advancing and gearing heavily? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

Elvish Nightprowler
3
14%
Elvish Overlord
0
No votes
Elvish Seer
4
18%
Elvish Warlord
0
No votes
Exterminator
3
14%
Forester
0
No votes
Goblin Ravager
0
No votes
Goblin Warbanner
0
No votes
Grim Knight
0
No votes
Faerie Incarnation
4
18%
Infernal Knight
1
5%
Lich King
3
14%
Lunatic Knight
2
9%
Monstrosity
0
No votes
Orcish Nightblade
0
No votes
Orcish Strafer
1
5%
Pilum Master
0
No votes
Orcish Warmonger
1
5%
Phantom
0
No votes
Predator
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 22

User avatar
nuorc
Forum Regular
Posts: 569
Joined: September 3rd, 2009, 2:25 pm
Location: Barag Gor

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by nuorc »

@lionside: If I want to know how far I am in the campaign, I go to the walkthroughs via the context menu; the scenarios are listed for each chapter...
I have a cunning plan.

Ashes
Posts: 95
Joined: July 8th, 2015, 8:59 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Ashes »

Dugi wrote:@Ashes
Maybe its penalty could be further reduced? Or increase its damage, decreasing the attack count? It would not differ from entropy much otherwise.
I am not sure. I understand the reason with AoE attacks cause lethargy, but I am not sure that the "right" amount for this penalty exists.
Lethargy diminishes the attacks by a fixed amount, therefore AoE attacks have to be avoided until your characters are sufficiently strong, and then they don't need AoE attacks anymore.

Arctic blast deals cold damages, while entropy deals arcane damage. And IMHO the main selling point of entropy is leech.

Another reason why I'd remove hose from arctict blast is that I like the idea that for each type of damage there can be a targeted attack (with many attacks causing low damage) and an AoE attack (with few attacks causing high damage).

Zarkussell
Posts: 38
Joined: December 31st, 2015, 3:00 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Zarkussell »

Is there still a penalty for units learning from books?

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4955
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

#redeem spells
Without hose, these attacks would have no significant difference from basic fireball. Also the point about first being unable to afford using AoE and then not needing AoE seems valid. I am thinking about approaching it in a completely different way. Giving the demons some sort of hatred beyond grave ability that would cause them to spread lethargy if they suicide on some unit (that is, die from retaliation). This would put a stop on mass slaughter on retaliation.

@Zarkussell
Book advancements give 20% to max experience needed for next levels, just like usual AMLA. There is no penalty. There is some sort of penalty when giving these to leaders, whose experience to next level increases less sharply otherwise. This means that if you use book advancements on leaders, it may have a similar effect than gaining like one and half advancement on the long run.

Zarkussell
Posts: 38
Joined: December 31st, 2015, 3:00 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Zarkussell »

Thank you Dugi.

In chapter 3-- Gehenna the campaign help tip says to take advantage of the unlimited turns. But there is a 50 turn limit. Is there supposed to be a limit in this version or not?

I mean either way it's still plenty of time. I went around the entire map and killed all enemies by around turn 20-25. Just curious.

User avatar
matsjoyce
Posts: 233
Joined: May 8th, 2011, 2:10 pm
Location: UK

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by matsjoyce »

@Dugi I've been playing the git version and I think the Spell Eaters are way overpowered. In some scenarios the AI doesn't really recruit anything else:
Spoiler:
Could do something like one of these:
  • Limit the total number on the map at any time
  • Reduce their health by at least half
  • Make them much more wimpy in combat
Currently it's much harder than it was before to push through the hordes, so I've overrun several turn limits. :augh:

PS: I'm on medium difficulty

Ashes
Posts: 95
Joined: July 8th, 2015, 8:59 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Ashes »

Dugi wrote:#redeem spells
Without hose, these attacks would have no significant difference from basic fireball. Also the point about first being unable to afford using AoE and then not needing AoE seems valid. I am thinking about approaching it in a completely different way. Giving the demons some sort of hatred beyond grave ability that would cause them to spread lethargy if they suicide on some unit (that is, die from retaliation). This would put a stop on mass slaughter on retaliation.
I like this idea, generalised. Indeed, having enemies suicide on our units is efficient, but boring.

My proposal, based on your idea, would be that each time a unit kills another unit, the damage of the killer is lowered a bit (e.g. by 10% of the current value). The gameplay explaining this effect is that killing too easily is boring. And at the end of the turn, everything is back to normal (unlike lethargy, this effect is to prevent killing to many units in one turn, not to make the unit vulnerable during the following turns).
It would also work against the bad guys (e.g. you can weaken the offensive capabilities of an enemy boss by suiciding lots of low level units against him ; it could be an interesting way of dealing with the dragon Hephaistos, for example, by suiciding bat zombies).
It will change a lot the game balance (both LotI1 and LotI2), and therefore would need modifying some scenarios, but it may be worth it.

Zarkussell
Posts: 38
Joined: December 31st, 2015, 3:00 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Zarkussell »

Does anyone know what the weapon special "mind raid" does?
Other weapon specials I don't understand also are "misnania" and "misdraconia" if anyone knows what these do I'd be like to know. Thank you everyone.

User avatar
matsjoyce
Posts: 233
Joined: May 8th, 2011, 2:10 pm
Location: UK

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by matsjoyce »

See https://wiki.wesnoth.org/LotI_Abilities ... 0.93_dummy, it's all listed on the first post of this thread.

Karmic
Posts: 5
Joined: December 17th, 2015, 1:51 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Karmic »

So crazy idea, but would it be possible to add kill statistics to individual units like we have for the side? I've always wondered at the end of such a massive campaign how my individual units stack up on kills. Who was the real demon basher or dragon killer of them all? From a lore perspective if everyone captured the souls of their kills we would be able to see what the armies in their head looked like ;)

lionside
Posts: 4
Joined: November 7th, 2016, 4:25 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by lionside »

My review of Legend of the Invincibles:
I played Legend of the Invincibles for MANY hours. Up until all my progress was eliminated around scenario 41 - I lost practically all my items and all the units I had been leveling up. I lost all interest at that point. This was not a glitch or a bug. It was built into the campaign.

The expanded leveling up system on top of the BfW system was extremely interesting and fun. The new units and new capabilities after max level made all the units more fun and increased their value and fun factor. The expanded item system was also extremely interesting and fun, even though good items were far too rare, and collecting full item sets was statistically impossible.

The storyline would have been hilarious if it weren't trying so hard to actually be serious. It was fairly easy to ignore the bizarre and badly written storyline to just focus on the excellent gameplay though. Unfortunately, the contrived storyline needlessly led to an infuriating point in the campaign where all of the units you've spent dozens of hours leveling up and spending items on were simply removed, and you're forced to start over, with no way to get the items back that were equipped on your old units.

I give it 2 out of 5 stars. ★★☆☆☆

Pros: Excellent new mechanics for items, new units, and leveling up, and terrific level design. 6 out of 5 stars.
Cons: Abrupt and too soon ending(or, abrupt and too soon removal of all the units you worked hard on, however you want to put it.), and too hard to get good items. The storyline is also terrible, but I didn't care much about that, until the storyline unnecessarily caused the game to basically be over too soon. I really wanted to give it more stars because of all the pros, but this was too much of a downer. (-3) out of 5 stars.

Cheers.

Karmic
Posts: 5
Joined: December 17th, 2015, 1:51 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Karmic »

lionside wrote:
I played Legend of the Invincibles for MANY hours. Up until all my progress was eliminated around scenario 41 - I lost practically all my items and all the units I had been leveling up. I lost all interest at that point. This was not a glitch or a bug. It was built into the campaign.

Cheers.
You get them all back later.

Chewan
Posts: 135
Joined: December 19th, 2013, 1:40 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Chewan »

@ lionside » I played Legend of the Invincibles for MANY hours
It's a campaign even good players play for many MONTHS, for years, a lifetime... :D
@ lionside » until all my progress was eliminated around scenario 41
Well, your review refers just to the part you still had interest in? Til scenario 41 … Which is?
Surely not the only one indexed to this number, in Chapter IX. So until around the end of chapter 3 ?
@ lionside » I lost practically all my items and all the units … It was built into the campaign.
Right. AFAIK, this setback has already been addressed on a number of occasions. Poor you, it's a feature.
Because, you know, s*** happens, life isn't fair, and you can't always keep what you've worked for.
Buuut, just as Karmic wrote: You get them all back later - isn't that great? :D A miracle!
@ lionside »
The storyline would have been hilarious if it weren't trying so hard to actually be serious ...
It was fairly easy to ignore the bizarre and badly written storyline ...
The storyline is also terrible …
Do these reps refer to your disgust and disillusionment triggered by a blow of fate? The loss of your treasures and soldiers? Or to the story itself? If you mean the prose, the wording, the narrative style then I'd be interested in some examples.

EDIT
Dugi, let me add 1 star and THANKS for the opportunity to make a fresh start!
I didn't spend too much time hogging items or exploring all the options of that complex advancement system. As I became more familiar with the use of the various objects and arms, a natural loss came in useful, better than restarting the campaign. ;)
Last edited by Chewan on November 27th, 2016, 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4955
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Zarkussell wrote:In chapter 3-- Gehenna the campaign help tip says to take advantage of the unlimited turns. But there is a 50 turn limit. Is there supposed to be a limit in this version or not?
It was just horribly outdated. Thanks for reporting.

#Spell Eaters
Reduced their health down almost to a half, slightly reduced base damage. If you update the github version, this change should take place to newly recruited units even in old save files as long as the game is restarted. Can you please try out if they are better now? I realised that I am really bad at estimating their difficulty.

#Kill Statistics
It would certainly be possible. But it would need to save an extra piece of information to every unit in game. I would do this only if more people are interested in such a feature.

@lionside
All I wanted to write was already written. As it was written before, the loss of units is only temporary and you were very unspecific in your comments about the plot. I admit that the first parts' story was one of my first stories actually published and I made it up while cooking potatoes.
Chewan wrote:I didn't spend too much time hogging items or exploring all the options of that complex advancement system. As I became more familiar with the use of the various objects and arms, a natural loss come in useful, better than restarting the campaign. ;)
Uh... oh... I was just thinking about letting you get some units back in chapter IV as a part of the planned overhaul...

Chewan
Posts: 135
Joined: December 19th, 2013, 1:40 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Chewan »

@ duig » I was just thinking about letting you get some units back in chapter IV
Well, I m not sure how far lionside got – Chapter VI would be the next deep hit... :whistle:

Post Reply