Legend of the Invincibles

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Which of these units you find worth advancing and gearing heavily? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

Prophet
10
16%
Reaper
6
9%
Scythemaster
4
6%
Shadowalker
3
5%
Shadow Prince
7
11%
Siege Troll
3
5%
Sky Goblin
1
2%
Snow Hunter
7
11%
Soul Shooter
3
5%
Swordmaster
12
19%
Troll Boulderlobber
0
No votes
Warlock
5
8%
Werewolf Rider
2
3%
Zombie Rider
1
2%
 
Total votes: 64

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Inky
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Inky »

Dugi wrote:
Inky wrote:I also just encountered a 0 HP unit bug (latest campaign version) - it happened whenever I killed an enemy using a parrying attack.
I have found a little bug there, but I doubt that it's caused by it. It might be related to its bad interaction with some weapon specials, can you please upload a save file where it can be replicated?
Here's the save: use Connor in the northwest to attack the goblin rouser from the village using his parry attack. Sometimes it does work normally, so you might have to reload the save and try again. He has the plague weapon special but I also tested it after removing The Black Ring and it still happened.
LotI1-Mining_Turn_5.gz
(982.84 KiB) Downloaded 80 times
Another minor issue I noticed is if you have two units with despair(5) and despair(10) next to an enemy for example, the enemy will only get the 5% damage reduction instead of 10%.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

#Bugs
Fixed them both.

#Dragon rider fire breath
Maybe it would be better to simply improve his fire breath - Dragon Riders might have quite a weak ranged attack without Fire Dragon legacy. And most of them don't have Fire Dragon Legacy. If they have it, they can get some fire penetration.

#Other
moony wrote:Chapter one, scenario "Forgotten Realms" (? i think so, in german its "Vergangene Reiche"), latest version, i cannot pick p any item/gem/gold neither with letahlia nor with efraim..
There is not such scenario, but you might mean the one where they fight in the mountains have to kill an orcish leader to cause orcs to fight each other. Can you upload a save file of that, that error is really weird.
Inky wrote:Another minor issue I noticed is if you have two units with despair(5) and despair(10) next to an enemy for example, the enemy will only get the 5% damage reduction instead of 10%.
This is how the developers made the game. I can't do anything about it.
Xellos
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Xellos »

Dugi
#Dragon rider fire breath
This is also good idea but, while his attack isn't most powerful, it is not terrible either. The only problem with this attack is quite weak scaling.
Most units after few AMLAs will become much stronger/interesting, they will gain some abilities or special rules. There is no such a thing with Dragon Rider.
I think that is a reason why this unit is less popular.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

I wanted to improve AMLA, not the base attack anyway. I am taking your reply as agreement that I should do it. So I've done it. All advancements that added 1 damage to it now add 2 damage and the one that added an attack and removed 1 damage no longer removes the damage.
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Inky
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Inky »

Hey Dugi, still really enjoying this campaign and also I really appreciate that you take the time to respond to every one of my comments.

-The misdraconia weapon special doesn't work on fire dragons.

-When killing enough enemies with Lethalia's axe whirlwind attack to level up, it resets the XP but I don't get the option to choose an advancement bonus. (Leveling up with Efraim's whirlwind seems to work fine though.)

-Chapter 4, scenario 8 (An army is born) where you have to kill 50 orcs in 14 turns seems impossible (I only managed to kill about 40). Because of the lethargy from AOE attacks Lethalia can only kill one orc on most turns. Maybe decrease the number of orcs you have to kill to 35 or something?

Some typos:
Spoiler:
Xellos
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Xellos »

Inky:
About this scenario:
- it is good to remove large part of her equipment and give her something to reduce her resistances against non magical attacks (boots step of perdition or ring for example)
thanks to that orcs should attack Lethalia (only important if orcs don't attack her). With that i was able to kill one or few orcs in retaliation during enemy turn. My Lethalia had AMLA in staff and gossamer but in this scenario i was using axe (because it is weaker weapon)
- remember that you can craft weapons and give this axes or otherwordy essence weapons to new units created from enemies. It is worth to create few cheap weapons for your new units so they hit harder. It is also good to leave them on the ground if you think that enemy can kill unit with shiny stuff. You can pick it in your turn. ;) First two weapons are really good. +5 damage for ghosts is really good.
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Inky
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Inky »

Hey Xellos,
Thanks for the advice, it was a huge help!! I totally forgot that you could craft equipment at any time. The scenario was much easier when I put my zillion obsidians to good use making Konrad's Mights. And unequipping Lethalia helped too because the orcs just ignored her before.

To Dugi:
Very minor bug in that scenario (chapter 4 scenario 8 ): When the loyal ghosts level up, sometimes they will lose their loyal trait.
Xellos
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Xellos »

Inky:
Good. I am glad that i could help. I also had problems with this scenario. But this and next one with Lethalia are probably my favorite scenarios in Lotl from tactical point of view.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Inky wrote:-The misdraconia weapon special doesn't work on fire dragons.
Fixed.
Inky wrote:When killing enough enemies with Lethalia's axe whirlwind attack to level up, it resets the XP but I don't get the option to choose an advancement bonus. (Leveling up with Efraim's whirlwind seems to work fine though.)
Do you have the latest version? Because I was fixing a problem almost identical to this one and it should no longer be possible - you gain all the exp from AoE kills when the attack ends. If you do have the latest version and you started the scenario on it, please upload a save file where it can be replicated.
Inky wrote:Some typos:
Fixed.
Inky wrote:Very minor bug in that scenario (chapter 4 scenario 8 ): When the loyal ghosts level up, sometimes they will lose their loyal trait.
Can you please give me a save file where it can be replicated? The word sometimes is very scary for any attempts to fix a bug.
Delicius169
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Delicius169 »

I was looking at the Elder mage, he is still really weak. How about giving him Fire blast attack, like Efraim and Lethalia can have? So it d be worth to have him. He should be the strongest fire based unit. And Snow hunter can have Blizzard too (even though it takes too many amlas, before he can have it)
Xellos
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Xellos »

Delicius169:
Who is stronger than Elder Mage as fire based unit? And Why?
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

If there's no better fire based unit, it does not imply that Elder Mage balanced correctly. He should be similarly powerful than other level 5 units, like Elvish Seer or Duke. If he isn't, it's a problem.

He might indeed get fireblast, more damage or something else. He has also arcane damage, but I am not sure if this versatility helps compensate.
Whiskeyjack
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Whiskeyjack »

I´ve never tried an Elder Mage for arcane - so I can´t make comments about this. I think the EM is considerably weaker than the Seer (IIRC (no game at the moment) Seer has a little weaker damage, but more pen, slowing attack, can get brutal melee damage (vs. uselessness of the EM) and get´s more pen more easily). Duke is hard to compare as that unit is only a strong enhancer/enabler, while EM doesn´t bring anything for other units but more figthing prowess. Dragon Rider is weaker in ranged but with the melee strength and versatility still better (except no pen, that is a big plus for EM) and one of the more beefy units (plus mobile).

I´m not entirely sure how bad the EMs damage is (I think it might actually be enough), but the unit has nothing else. How about giving it a small fire damage aura together with the first fire damage AMLAs (like 4/8/12/16)? Incinerate for staff might be another option (thus his melee attack wouldn´t be useless while still being weak on damage). As I said, I´m not sure about the arcane route (how about having him reach cantor later on - he guides the projectiles of close allies with his arcane powers?). As you will have to AMLA some pen (and have a lot of items which only give one kind of pen) I don´t really see his arcane attack as a good compensation since he´ll have to specialize for one of the two.

About Seer: IIRC the unit description mentions the unit as a good healer and it does have the built in +4 healing, but nothing to advance on that. This always seemed odd to me. How about adding AMLAs for +8 & cures/ +11 / +14 / +16 to give an optional path with more teamwork focus?
Under blood-red skies, an old man sits
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.
Delicius169
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Delicius169 »

Well Elder mage is elder, that means he s not so strong as he used to be. But he has so many experiences, so many knowledges. He has Curse attack(1 AMLA): 2-5 doom, maybe if this attack would have bigger radius, with doom afecting more units.
Fire skills
Retribution, skill from pyromancer´s set, From the ashes (I dont think this is good skill for him)
But If you ll compare it with Ancient lich (explosive slow on his ice attack (3 or 4 amlas), leeches on his arcane attack with huge base damage)...
Fire blast seems like a nice alternative for him.

Duke has skill Push, the best leadership like skill.
+16 heal is too much on Seer, how much does faerie have? +22?
Xellos
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Xellos »

About Elder Mage:
Maybe we should thing about his identity?
If he should be something like master of fire then Whiskeyjack ideas are quite good.
But if he should be something like "old but experienced guy" then we should think about something which is more like Delicius169.

Elder Mage has Fire, Arcane and Lighting damage. This is not Fire only unit.

I personally really like when you have more than 1 path for unit (so i really like Whiskeyjack about Seer and i would give her something for buying few AMLAs for healing like leeches or something other).
So if he will have more than 1 path i will be happy. :D
I think that he mostly need some more special rules so he will be more interesting.
Maybe struggle or something like that for his spells? Maybe magical shield? Everything is good with me.

I can agree that he is weaker than Seer (mixed fighter), Duke (best leader). But his main problem is:
He has only damage and nothing more. And he can only increase his damage.
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