Legend of the Invincibles

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Which of these units you find worth advancing and gearing heavily? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

Prophet
51
21%
Reaper
28
12%
Scythemaster
20
8%
Shadowalker
17
7%
Shadow Prince
19
8%
Siege Troll
11
5%
Sky Goblin
4
2%
Snow Hunter
20
8%
Soul Shooter
5
2%
Swordmaster
28
12%
Troll Boulderlobber
2
1%
Warlock
24
10%
Werewolf Rider
5
2%
Zombie Rider
7
3%
 
Total votes: 241

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Inky
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Inky »

Hey, I updated the autogenerated wiki pages for the latest stable LotI version (3.2.6d). Most of the pages didn't really change; the main thing is a bunch of new items were added. I also split it into sections for each weapon type. https://wiki.wesnoth.org/LotI_Items :D
I also made a pull request with some fixes/updates to the wiki generator on matsjoyce's LotIWikiGen repository so maybe that will get updated too.

P.S. The new crafting and equipment menu look great!!
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dabber
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

That's awesome Inky. Thank you!
InSanity_42
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by InSanity_42 »

Hi!

Found a bug and decided to register at last. I found a similar thing reported before in the comments around last august, but in this case I didn't get missing code messages, unlike that reporter. I'm using [Non-fatal wound system] modification, but was able to replicate the problem with a fresh start without any modification, spawning and hp fixing units.

So anyway, the bug:
- Incinerate states that if it kills a unit, the incinerating unit gets the experience, but it doesn't grant it. In the original it was Connor(Master at Arms) with jester helmet, replicated with debug-leveled Dragon Rider.
Wesnoth Version: 1.14.17
LotI Version: 3.2.6d

attaching turn beginning, turn end(before enemy unit(s) death - debug1.gz - , next turn beginning save files - debug2.gz - .
LotI1-Twilight-Auto-Save10.gz
(436.01 KiB) Downloaded 30 times
debug1.gz
(437.08 KiB) Downloaded 25 times
debug2.gz
(417.37 KiB) Downloaded 30 times
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nuorc
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by nuorc »

@Inky Sounds great, thx!
I have a cunning plan.
white_haired_uncle
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by white_haired_uncle »

Some notes on part 1 of the latest beta, "hard" difficulty on 1.14...

ascension: ghost killed by the bad guy is put on my team

umbra: I am unable to poison BZB, though he has no visible traits to stop me.

the pit: objectives claim early finish bonus.
end of all hopes: objectives claim early finish bonus.
ambush: objectives claim early finish bonus.

invasion: always has bzb available

lost in space: leth dops explosive slow not explosive against prince's forces. Pretty sure it was in invasion.

A dwarfish hero AMLA is a new lightning attack, which does fire damage.

There are two different human units named Blackguard, which breaks help.

Unit description for Enfant Terrible omits advancement path

Potion of Titanic strength claims to improve all melee damages, but only applies
to melee weapon (e.g. not dragon rider bite)
dwarftough
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dwarftough »

white_haired_uncle wrote: September 30th, 2021, 7:50 pm ascension: ghost killed by the bad guy is put on my team
If you attacked that ghost, that's intended. Afaik a ghost joins you if it's killed on the turn you or your thrall attacked it, but it may be killed by another enemy.
white_haired_uncle wrote: September 30th, 2021, 7:50 pm Potion of Titanic strength claims to improve all melee damages, but only applies
to melee weapon (e.g. not dragon rider bite)
I once noted a similar issue, that melee improving item doesn't work for bats (not in LotI but in a LotI-items using addon). The thing is that only attacks for which weapons might be equipped can be improved. So for bite you can't equip anything and it's not improved. I was said it simplifies code logic a bit (and allows units like pilum master benefit from melee upgrades)
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white_haired_uncle
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by white_haired_uncle »

dwarftough wrote: October 3rd, 2021, 11:02 am
white_haired_uncle wrote: September 30th, 2021, 7:50 pm ascension: ghost killed by the bad guy is put on my team
If you attacked that ghost, that's intended. Afaik a ghost joins you if it's killed on the turn you or your thrall attacked it, but it may be killed by another enemy.
No, it was killed by
Spoiler:
dwarftough wrote: October 3rd, 2021, 11:02 am
white_haired_uncle wrote: September 30th, 2021, 7:50 pm Potion of Titanic strength claims to improve all melee damages, but only applies
to melee weapon (e.g. not dragon rider bite)
I once noted a similar issue, that melee improving item doesn't work for bats (not in LotI but in a LotI-items using addon). The thing is that only attacks for which weapons might be equipped can be improved. So for bite you can't equip anything and it's not improved. I was said it simplifies code logic a bit (and allows units like pilum master benefit from melee upgrades)
Hopefully someone can add the word "weapons" to the Potion of Titanic Strength description.
dwarftough
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dwarftough »

white_haired_uncle wrote: October 3rd, 2021, 4:45 pm
dwarftough wrote: October 3rd, 2021, 11:02 am
white_haired_uncle wrote: September 30th, 2021, 7:50 pm ascension: ghost killed by the bad guy is put on my team
If you attacked that ghost, that's intended. Afaik a ghost joins you if it's killed on the turn you or your thrall attacked it, but it may be killed by another enemy.
No, it was killed by
But you had attacked that ghost on that turn before it was killed, right? You don't need to kill a ghost yourself, if you attacked and that that ghost was killed by anyone else on that turn, it's still captured (afaik it's supposed to work this way)
white_haired_uncle wrote: October 3rd, 2021, 4:45 pm Hopefully someone can add the word "weapons" to the Potion of Titanic Strength description.
Have just added, merged already :D
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imaginarypotato
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by imaginarypotato »

So I did a thing with the berserker, this is on hard difficulty btw

Screenshot from 2021-10-05 14-34-52.png
Explanation (and a bug report) Spoilers
Spoiler:

On an unrelated note to bug abuse. I was wondering if anybody would like to see something like a Loti Units tier list? I've been trying all of the units out in my last 2 play through and I have some things I can say about all of them. A list by me would of course have biases since I'm sure not everyone plays in the same way I do but it could be a way to start a discussion about unit balance and ways to optimize them.
NEW username -> Imaginary
dwarftough
Posts: 478
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dwarftough »

imaginarypotato wrote: October 5th, 2021, 7:24 pm I was wondering if anybody would like to see something like a Loti Units tier list? I've been trying all of the units out in my last 2 play through and I have some things I can say about all of them. A list by me would of course have biases since I'm sure not everyone plays in the same way I do but it could be a way to start a discussion about unit balance and ways to optimize them.
Why not? Kinda discussion is going all the time, and the poll in the topic should provide with kinda feedback on units, but I believe a detailed list of anyone can give a good boost to the discussion. It's interesting to hear at least :D
Co-founder and current maintainer of IsarFoundation, Afterlife Rated and overall Wesnoth Autohost Project
Developer and maintainer of my fork of World Conquest, Invincibles Conquest II
white_haired_uncle
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by white_haired_uncle »

imaginarypotato wrote: October 5th, 2021, 7:24 pm

On an unrelated note to bug abuse. I was wondering if anybody would like to see something like a Loti Units tier list? I've been trying all of the units out in my last 2 play through and I have some things I can say about all of them. A list by me would of course have biases since I'm sure not everyone plays in the same way I do but it could be a way to start a discussion about unit balance and ways to optimize them.
Of course... as long as the Prophet is the head of the list.

BTW, have you seen this... https://wiki.wesnoth.org/DeadlyUnitsFromLotI ?

P.S.
Spoiler:
imaginarypotato
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by imaginarypotato »

dwarftough wrote: October 6th, 2021, 12:47 am
imaginarypotato wrote: October 5th, 2021, 7:24 pm I was wondering if anybody would like to see something like a Loti Units tier list? I've been trying all of the units out in my last 2 play through and I have some things I can say about all of them. A list by me would of course have biases since I'm sure not everyone plays in the same way I do but it could be a way to start a discussion about unit balance and ways to optimize them.
Why not? Kinda discussion is going all the time, and the poll in the topic should provide with kinda feedback on units, but I believe a detailed list of anyone can give a good boost to the discussion. It's interesting to hear at least :D
white_haired_uncle wrote: October 6th, 2021, 2:54 am
imaginarypotato wrote: October 5th, 2021, 7:24 pm

On an unrelated note to bug abuse. I was wondering if anybody would like to see something like a Loti Units tier list? I've been trying all of the units out in my last 2 play through and I have some things I can say about all of them. A list by me would of course have biases since I'm sure not everyone plays in the same way I do but it could be a way to start a discussion about unit balance and ways to optimize them.
Of course... as long as the Prophet is the head of the list.

BTW, have you seen this... https://wiki.wesnoth.org/DeadlyUnitsFromLotI ?

P.S.
Spoiler:

alright I guess I'll do the tier list. What I will do is rank all of the max level units that you can acquire an infinite amount off. So no things like Doppleganers, skele dragons, gods and deathknights just your standard units. I'm not 100% sure if I want to
Spoiler:
I'll also rank them on how good they are when given good equipment and experience (so things like snow hunter will have their ratings dropped and units like liches get their rantings up)


I have seen the deadly units page, its surprisingly still fairly relevant. Some of the item choices don't make much sense for the modern game but the ideas still mostly work in practice.
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dwarftough
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dwarftough »

imaginarypotato wrote: October 6th, 2021, 5:52 pm deathknights
Death Knights can be accessed through skeletons, aren't they? Skelly > Revenant > Death Knight > (Deathlord or Infernal Knight or Lich King)
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imaginarypotato
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by imaginarypotato »

dwarftough wrote: October 6th, 2021, 7:48 pm
imaginarypotato wrote: October 6th, 2021, 5:52 pm deathknights
Death Knights can be accessed through skeletons, aren't they? Skelly > Revenant > Death Knight > (Deathlord or Infernal Knight or Lich King)
I think that was removed. There might be another way to get them now but I don't know what it is.

Screenshot from 2021-10-06 17-20-31.png
Death knight advances from nothing here (and the dragonrider on the right shows that this was down in loti)

You can get lich king through upgrading from the lich so its being counted for the tier list.


the Infernoknight itself is looks pretty decent, firecast is an incredibly strong ability and you can upgrade your fire resistance up to cover one of your weaknesses. I'm not sure how great it would be in practice since you don't get to use it for very long.
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dwarftough
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dwarftough »

imaginarypotato wrote: October 6th, 2021, 9:29 pm I think that was removed. There might be another way to get them now but I don't know what it is.


Screenshot from 2021-10-06 17-20-31.png
Death knight advances from nothing here (and the dragonrider on the right shows that this was down in loti)
It wasn't removed, it's still through Revenant, just not shown in the help menu because of the way it's implemented.
rev.png
rev.png (93.47 KiB) Viewed 624 times
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Developer and maintainer of my fork of World Conquest, Invincibles Conquest II
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