Legend of the Invincibles

[Celtic_Minstrel]

Regarding AI API changes the release post includes a summary of how to fix broken AIs - expand the AI Compatibility Breaking Changes box. Not sure if it's detailed enough for you, but it may be sufficient to get you started. You could also search the git log for the update to the Experimental AI if you're using an AI with an [engine]name=lua.

[Zarkussell]

@dugi,

You said removing shroud would not impact the gameplay long term. What would mess up gameplay later?

[Elder2]

#AI problems
I have asked mattsc, the wesnoth AI expert, for advice about it. I am not very familiar with the AI.

#Beelzebub
The multiple Beelzebub spawn problem was fixed in the github version.

I don't remember Lethalia claiming that Delly may be her lost child.

The history of this change is quite unusual. The events happening in chapter 1 were quite wacky, Chewan pointed me to a lot of inconsistencies. There was no way to talk it around, so I made up a prequel that explained them all, without having to change the slightest thing in LotI to reflect it. The campaign's name is Affably Evil. It had a little fault, though. It had some pretty grim implications about the background of some characters in LotI. It was seen quite negatively, so I did what I am used to do when too many people disagree with my opinions. I have made a few little changes to the story. The story still makes sense, but it means that Delly is Lethalia's snatched child. This meant that Delly would not be as aged as she was supposed to be in chapter 2, so I have made a little retcon, making her younger, which leads Lethalia to suspicions.

I have played Affably Evil and that is why I was so surprised about that particular change XD actually I found that part of affably evil explaining that

Spoiler:

Efraim was Lethalia's child

really grim but at the same time very interesting since it was the first time I have seen somebody put something like that in a Wesnoth campaign. I guess you can say it was fcked up but I liked it and also I think the whole affably evil campaing was a bit quirky in several respects and you can't change it.

[Dugi]

The AI just recruits but never moves

Regarding AI API changes the release post includes a summary of how to fix broken AIs - expand the AI Compatibility Breaking Changes box.

I have realised that the AI is a micro_ai since some 1.13 version, so the issue is actually far easier to fix.

I was hoping it wouldn't be a big change since the game already records it for the side. Hope some other people like it I'm a little crazy about statistics and did it a little in a spreadsheet for the beginning but it quickly gets out of hand especially in 100 turn scenarios

Bad thing is that I don't know of a way to access those statistics without making a script to grab them from the save files.

Side note, From the Ashes doesn't seem to work for me.

Please upload a save file, it was working pretty well.

You said removing shroud would not impact the gameplay long term. What would mess up gameplay later?

Almost anything else. Creating units, some modifications to units, skipping scenarios,... Even removing fog can cause trouble in certain scenarios.

@ElderofZion
If its implications affected only the campaign itself, I would have left it there, it fitted the evil storyline, good people would not join the villain protagonist, only bad or insane ones, It was not my primary intention to be unique in that way, but I was happy about having explained all LotI's inconsistencies without the need of a single change. But the legacy of Affably Evil annoying players all through the much lighter story of LotI was probably detrimental.

[Elder2]

I don't know if anybody noticed it before but "striking faster in spiritual form" doesn't seem to work at all at least for Lethalia (and so probably also for Efraim), it doesn't increase strikes

[Dugi]

I don't know if anybody noticed it before but "striking faster in spiritual form" doesn't seem to work at all at least for Lethalia (and so probably also for Efraim), it doesn't increase strikes

It's not shown on that screen and there's no good way to make it show there. Also, increases the number of attacks by percentage (10%), so it may end up rounded down to no effect.

[Whiskeyjack]

He is not supposed to heal much on levelup (not at all on easy), but his damage was supposed to go up by 3 on easy, 4 on normal and 5 on hard.

I don't have a proper save file of his appearance, I had always used some trick to get him there, so can you please upload a save file where he can be summoned?

Alright, so I rechecked: His damage does indeed go up, it´s just not much (considering I always have him slowed + resistances), so I didn´t realize it. Especially in part I it also takes him quite a while to level up. Sadly I only had saves shortly after he leveled up, but I compared the stats in two of those.

The attached replay is actually from the scenario I first abused this mechanic in (see also the newly recruited level 1 units which left this scenario with multiple AMLAs). I also think that particular scenario has too many turns, something about 80-100 should be enough to finish this easily and only pose a challenge for very slow people.

[nuorc]

I don't know if anybody noticed it before but "striking faster in spiritual form" doesn't seem to work at all at least for Lethalia (and so probably also for Efraim), it doesn't increase strikes

It's not shown on that screen and there's no good way to make it show there. Also, increases the number of attacks by percentage (10%), so it may end up rounded down to no effect.

Lol, haven't noticed that before.

Increasing strikes by 10% is pretty measly.

Spoiler:

Why does https://wiki.wesnoth.org/LotI_Standard_ ... t2_attacks say each picking gives ten more attacks?

----

I finally cast my vote which chapter needs improvement the most: chapter IX

Last two times I was there it made me not play LotI/BfW for ~half a year. It's just too long, too repetitive...

Sure, I reap the plants 'n stuff, but when I have to enter yet another chamber/dungeon it just too often feels like the same, killing the same stuff over and over again, or even the same freakin freaks again and again. (Why, again, is there like four folks I have to kill several times?)

Spoiler:

@Dugi: Sorry, I think overall I think it's a great chapter, and I wouldn't know from the top off my hat know what to change to improve it; but, ach, it's just such a drag!

[Elder2]

I don't know if anybody noticed it before but "striking faster in spiritual form" doesn't seem to work at all at least for Lethalia (and so probably also for Efraim), it doesn't increase strikes

It's not shown on that screen and there's no good way to make it show there. Also, increases the number of attacks by percentage (10%), so it may end up rounded down to no effect.

Ah, that may be the reason why my 4 attacks did not got increased. But if I bought 2 of these upgrades would it stack up to 20% and increase my attacks?

Even if it did increase I still would think it is not worth it, 10% increase is just not enough, overall I think that the spiritual form is a too weak however that may sound. Its only advantage is the taken dmg reduction compared to the standard attack but why would I care about the damage I take when I have crazy res and regeneration. Also I don't think it would reduce Akula's passive 10 damage (or these lvl 3 mehchanical royal guards passive 10 damage) which doesn't seem to be reduced by resistances. Spiritual form does the casual mele damage except that its arcane, and it doesn't have a magical attack or anything, I think Efraim benefits from marksman on it since he has it on sword but for lethalia she gets nothing, I thought that spiritual transformation had magical and that the upgrades for it would be at least decent. Sadly 2 damage increase per upgrade (I think it may actually be 10%, I have looked into the AMLA file and it seems so, but my point still stands) for a supposed "strong" and "ultimate" attack is just not enough to even catch up eg with Lethalia's faerie fire which I have been upgrading for the whole game, or even make its damage remotely close to Efraim's berserk. Also the 10% strikes increase is just worse than the 1 strikes increase for any other casual attack, its increase in attacks would surpass casual 1 attacks increase only after 15 or 16 attacks depending on how its rounded while for 4 or 5 attacks it would have no effect for a single upgrade. I picked spiritual transformation for Lethalia to have some strong attack that would not significantly reduce my damage every time I use it, but its no better than her axe, now next time when I reach 320 kills or so I will pick chill wave, looking into AMLA file its upgrades are way better than either spiritual transformation or fireball. By the way fireball seems just underpowered compared to it, if I am correct fireball does 7-4 base damage while chill wave does 17-2 base damage and its upgrades increase both attacks and damage each time.

[braknor]

When a unit is burning it only gets extinguished when it stands in a village. According to the description, however, it also supposed to be healed when it is standing next to a healer but this does not work. A burning unit is still burning the next round even if it stands next to a healer.

[Elder2]

If you have cleave and backstab the cleave damage is doubled if beckstab is activated. It doesn't seem logical and allows for some exploits, all I have to do to double my cleave damage is put a unit behing the unit I am attacking. Btw I would be really happy if for every upgrade that adds a AoE damage special it would create a whole new atatck for that. Now I can't add explosive slow to my lich's damage since I know after every attack his damage output will halve and I don't want that. Also it would be very good for lethalia, its just annoying that every atatck lowers her damage output.

Btw that is how berserking a mechanical grand marshall ended. It is just obscene. xD

Spoiler:

[Elder2]

I guess this is as op as you can possibly get Efraim without exploits in part 1.

Spoiler:

[Whiskeyjack]

I´ll confess to a lot of grinding, but technically no exploits with Efraim (part one for both units)...

Efraim:

Efraim_2.PNG (70.9 KiB) Viewed 4041 times

Take into special consideration the penetration and the power on ranged and melee.

Another unit I´m very proud of:

Insane damage due to the penetration and can solo because of spell suck 3 and leech on melee.

[Elder2]

I´ll confess to a lot of grinding, but technically no exploits with Efraim (part one for both units)...

Efraim:

Efraim_1.PNG

Efraim_2.PNG

Take into special consideration the penetration and the power on ranged and melee.

Another unit I´m very proud of:

Seer.PNG

Insane damage due to the penetration and can solo because of spell suck 3 and leech on melee.

Wow, that is pretty insane, it sure had to take a lot of grinding.
I think the best way to get the maximum mele damage possible is actually to get marrowrend, it doubles your strikes, I got it for my skelleton dragon and now it has 23-10 base mele claws damage and with forsaken ability on it has 70% arcane 90% cold 70% fire 80% pierce 70% blade and 52% impact res. But well anger from marrowrend works only on offense so It is no better than if you got berserk on efraim.

This is my Lethalia's final form, I planned on getting chaos for her too but I ended up not having enough gems, I think I wasted a bit too much gold, anyway I ended up getting soul render, chaos and hatred for Efraim. Lethalia got no special black pearl equipment, but still, its not like she really needs it that much looking at her stats.

Spoiler:

[Dugi]

His damage does indeed go up, it´s just not much (considering I always have him slowed + resistances), so I didn´t realize it. Especially in part I it also takes him quite a while to level up.

Doubled his damage gain.

The attached replay is actually from the scenario I first abused this mechanic in (see also the newly recruited level 1 units which left this scenario with multiple AMLAs).

Thanks.

Increasing strikes by 10% is pretty measly.

Want me to increase it?

Sure, I reap the plants 'n stuff, but when I have to enter yet another chamber/dungeon it just too often feels like the same, killing the same stuff over and over again, or even the same freakin freaks again and again. (Why, again, is there like four folks I have to kill several times?)

I have asked some time ago if I should place those statues from Nightmare cellar into some other areas and I got no replies. I might create some special enemies, each for some specific areas, if you want.

When a unit is burning it only gets extinguished when it stands in a village. According to the description, however, it also supposed to be healed when it is standing next to a healer but this does not work. A burning unit is still burning the next round even if it stands next to a healer.

I think that only the default healing (+8) works on it, can you please verify it?

If you have cleave and backstab the cleave damage is doubled if beckstab is activated.

Doing this 'exploit' requires some planning and a good situation, so it's not that much of an exploit. It's more an opportunist tactic than an exploit.

Btw that is how berserking a mechanical grand marshall ended. It is just obscene. xD

So I have created a challenge for your superman.

I guess this is as op as you can possibly get Efraim without exploits in part 1.

Which difficulty? Items are stronger on easier difficulties.