Legend of the Invincibles

[Dugi]

Sorry to hear about your formatted hard drive, that must be rough.

Yes, I've been working on another project for a couple of months and backupped it only on the same drive, just to avoid accidental deletion. All I have now is the know-how. Very useful know-how.

I don't really agree with that philosophy.

Shadowalker is the first unit I created to be a level 4 continuation of an advancement line, and at that time, he was merging the Assassin and Master at Arms lines. I have altered him quite significantly from then, but I haven't found a good unit to be his replacement on the Master at Arms line. I agree that Shadowalker there might not be perfect, but I haven't stumbled upon a good idea yet. Your idea was better than the status quo, but I think that we all agree that it was not excellent neither.

[RaustBD]

Shadowalker is the first unit I created to be a level 4 continuation of an advancement line, and at that time, he was merging the Assassin and Master at Arms lines. I have altered him quite significantly from then, but I haven't found a good unit to be his replacement on the Master at Arms line. I agree that Shadowalker there might not be perfect, but I haven't stumbled upon a good idea yet. Your idea was better than the status quo, but I think that we all agree that it was not excellent neither.

So just to make sure we're on the same page, you feel an upgraded unit has to have a new ability or do something significantly different from the previous unit rank?

Edit: Well in that case, there was this one idea I was tossing around... A new attack. I initially thought better of it because I feel it's overpowered, but here it is:

Disarming Blow: Melee, 0-1 with firststrike, slows and magical. The idea is that the unit would start using this automatically in retaliation to enemy attacks whenever it reached the point where it was in serious danger of dying. Personally I consider this overpowered because it's an extremely accurate and effective method of inflicting slow on units and could probably be abused, but I figure I'd mention it anyway.

[Dugi]

So just to make sure we're on the same page, you feel an upgraded unit has to have a new ability or do something significantly different from the previous unit rank?

Not something significantly different, but a change that would make its appearance something more than just bigger and its gameplay properties more than just higher damage and hitpoints. Like Thief, who gets a ranged attack and skirmisher, then poison (though he still remains mostly a backstabber), and not like Heavy Infantryman, who just becomes stronger.

[RaustBD]

So just to make sure we're on the same page, you feel an upgraded unit has to have a new ability or do something significantly different from the previous unit rank?

Not something significantly different, but a change that would make its appearance something more than just bigger and its gameplay properties more than just higher damage and hitpoints. Like Thief, who gets a ranged attack and skirmisher, then poison (though he still remains mostly a backstabber), and not like Heavy Infantryman, who just becomes stronger.

I think you'll find most units just become stronger when they upgrade. Heavy Infantrymen, the non-branching mage upgrades, human archers, the main horseman path (just gaining a sword when becoming a knight)... If you insist on coming up with significant upgrades for each unit, that's going to be quite difficult...

...But I do have one suggestion, born of my days playing fire emblem...

What about an ability that lets the unit use the rest of its movement points even after attacking? You could give that to the high-level horseman units, and putting that on the fencer level 4 would definitely improve its nimbleness and agility.

[Dugi]

If you insist on coming up with significant upgrades for each unit, that's going to be quite difficult...

Difficult, yes, but also quite boring.

What about an ability that lets the unit use the rest of its movement points even after attacking?

I believe we have discussed this already, though without discussing whether it should be in LotI or not. It was there, but I later removed the unit that had the ability because it was boring and badly drawn. I might bring that ability back, but the problem is that it was't very useful because all movement is usually lost when the unit steps into the target's ZoC, which is done before attacking. So most attacks start with 0 movement points anyway. It would be quite useless for horsemen, but units of the Fencer line are skirmishers, and therefore capable to use it. So it might be a good idea.

[otrobloginutil]

This is the best campaign I have ever played. And I really like new units advancements, armours, weapons, ... Is there any plan to use these new features in other campaigns? I miss them!

I am from Spain and I think I can help with the translation, how can I contribute?

Thanks for lot of hours of fun!

[Dugi]

Is there any plan to use these new features in other campaigns?

I don't think so. I have even published an add-on that contains its code for items and AMLA isolated and accompanied by explanations how to use it, it's there for over a year and I have seen only small bits of its code taken.

I am from Spain and I think I can help with the translation, how can I contribute?

Many people complain about my low-quality writing, and some of them (like RaustBD) are contributing by editing the dialogues to make them a better reading. If you created a translation for something, you'd have to rewrite it later due to these changes. Also, the inventory manipulation dialogues don't support translations properly (I plan to fix this). I'll be glad if you returned and made some translations after these edits are finished in the initial chapters.

[satinet]

hi

I just started playing chapter IV. none of my recalls are available. Is this normal?
It's fine because the list was getting a bit too strong maybe. I was wonder are they lost forever?

T

[Dugi]

They are gone and that is the intended behaviour. They aren't lost forever (don't want to spoil more).

[Dugi]

A serious bug was found in part II (chapters 6-10) - if you tried to load a game or start anew on the hard difficulty, it crashed. The bug was fixed as a new version (3.0.5). I also included two edits of dialogues by RaustBD (second and third scenario of chapter 1), let me (and him) know what do you think about it.

I am sorry for the inconvenience.

[hotmitts]

This looks great.
I'm fairly new to Wesnoth and I'm playing through some 'easy' campaigns, but even they're quite hard if you don't want to lose your nicely levelled-up units all the time! So my question is, what's the difficulty level in general on this campaign, please?

[Dugi]

Well, Legend of the Invincibles isn't much focusing on losing precious recalls, because I don't like that too (so units can carry armour, get healing on hit,...). But if you are really a bad player, you'll probably lose some of them anyway. The main problem is that you have to get used to the new features that will be becoming more and more required to use. I am trying to keep the easy difficulty passable for anyone, even if they are not good players. The first 5 chapters should be relatively easy to play without losing precious recalls (there are some parts where huge losses will occur, but you won't have your usual recalls then), later it might be harder to keep units alive even on easy. You'll probably lose some units in the beginning, but that will happen mostly before you get any real recalls.

I have tagged the first half as intermediate difficulty, but it just a rough guess, easy difficulty is probably harder than in the easiest mainline campaigns, but losing precious recalls shouldn't happen so frequently ('cause I hate it too). Hard difficulty is probably unplayable if you aren't used to the new features, there are more enemies, stronger enemies, and specially improved units appear quite frequently.

[Raijer]

Well, i would probably rate the first part as easy, with some harder scenarios, but things really get annoying only in the second part of the campaign. Personnally, i see the normal difficulty as easier than most other normal difficulties, as the first scenarios aren't really hard, and then your units starts getting really good, and you can escape most situation without difficulty. The gameplay is indeed different, but you get used to it really fast, so i don't think it's a factor of difficulty.

But, if you're a beginner, i think you shouldn't start with that campaign, as it's radically different from the rest. Better start with Heir to the Throne, then go to an intermediate level, and once you tried a little everything, go back to this (though that's just what i did myself, not forcing anyone to do the same). My point of view is, if you play this campaign before other ones, you're not really used to mainline wesnoth, and might not enjoy the online game if you wanna play online.

EDIT: Seems like there's an image missing in the sword mage's fireball animation.

[hotmitts]

Thanks for the quick replies, Dugi and Raijer. I'm halfway through Heir to the Throne so I'll at least finish that first, but I'm sort of intrigued to give this a try.
I'm not planning going online, my experience thus far with online games has been fairly horrible, just a bunch of idiots, but then maybe Wesnoth has a nicer community than others!

[Raijer]

From my point of view, Wesnoth players are most likely less annoying than others (cause they choosed a game like that), but there are idiots everywhere...

Anyway, new problem! I can recruit poachers in "Where the sun does not shine" (chap.1). I'm sure it isn't intended...
Also, when i take the advancement for faerie sabre with Lethalia, the attack is the last one, after faerie fire. Wouldn't it be better to put melee attacks with the other melee ?