Legend of the Invincibles

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply

Which of these crafting recipes you are using or planning to use? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

The End of All that Is
6
9%
Gloombringer
3
5%
Soul Eclipse
8
12%
Guerilla
6
9%
Scaryface
8
12%
Thundering Revenge
2
3%
Marie Byrd
4
6%
Marrowrend
14
21%
Deathblade Inheritance
1
2%
Soul Render
14
21%
 
Total votes: 66

Jeffers0n
Posts: 106
Joined: April 12th, 2013, 2:46 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Jeffers0n »

But what if i'm fighting near a cave entrance while still in the cave? in that case I would be affected by sunlight through a mountain and I don't think being affected by someone with Illumination that is standing five tiles away from me makes much sence either.
Ignoring darkening would just be bonkers story wise
It seems you misunderstood what I meant. Sorry for that, English is not my first language and I sometimes have trouble expressing myself. What I meant was that the unit would get an ability that disables darkening/illumination effects for its own tile. (which isn't necessarily a curse, as it also deals with Illumination)

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4944
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Whiskeyjack wrote:Even if undead can keep up in stats (which might be true, I don´t think I had high end undeads with 20+ advancements), they are missing an essential part of what makes LotI fun and interesting (as I said, they have only two of the 3 layers (3 of the 4, if you consider books yet another)).
Not everyone cares about legacies as you do. Or am I wrong?
Whiskeyjack wrote:So an Elvish legacy might raise mobility, ranged damage/marksman, defense in forests and decrease arcane res.
That would strongly restrict variety for little reason. If a man can be a descendant of some dragon, an elf can be a dragon's descendant as well.
Jeffers0n wrote:Would it be possible to give him an ability like darkening or illumination that doesn't Illuminate or darken to counteract darkening?
Probably, but it would remove darkening's and illumination's other effects on him
Jeffers0n wrote:But what if i'm fighting near a cave entrance while still in the cave? in that case I would be affected by sunlight through a mountain and I don't think being affected by someone with Illumination that is standing five tiles away from me makes much sence either.
He would suffer. The photophobia would have to be hard to avoid.
But I agree that the radius might be shorter, maybe 3 hexes.
Jeffers0n wrote:It seems you misunderstood what I meant. Sorry for that, English is not my first language and I sometimes have trouble expressing myself.
He told that something that ignores darkening would not make much sense from the writer's point of view.

Jeffers0n
Posts: 106
Joined: April 12th, 2013, 2:46 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Jeffers0n »

Probably, but it would remove darkening's and illumination's other effects on him
He told that something that ignores darkening would not make much sense from the writer's point of view.
I meant that he would gain an ability that makes him completely immune to illumination and darkening. (As Illumination and Darkening are both spells it makes sense that there would be a spell to counter them so the impenetrable darkness wouldn't be ignored but rather disabled just as Darkening and Illumination disable each other)
But on second thought your version might be better.
But I agree that the radius might be shorter, maybe 3 hexes.
Three hexes would be fine. close enough to make sense, far enough to make exploiting via Darkening impossible.

nachkar
Posts: 46
Joined: December 26th, 2015, 1:01 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by nachkar »

Very interesting/intruiguing new legacies proposed :
About Nightbound :
The sunburn damage idea is awesome ! Just as leech or frostbite are small damage, I believe there is a need for more units taking small damage in one's army. The reason for that being we have a lot of small healing sources (regens here and there, dwarves healthy, some healings +4/6/8 etc...) and at least myself feel like they're all useless or close to (except regen for poisonhealing), as really wounded units go get healed by "real healers" with high heal values which Loti does provide. Increasing the small amounts of damage we take here and there gives some interest back to all the small (or wesnoth traditional) healing values. Also gives value to teleportation/very high movespeed strategies... (nightbound griffon-rider anyone? or well cant combine with legacy of the free, should be ok :lol: )
Furthermore, more night/chaotic incentive would feel great I'm sure. Wesnoth's night/day system is really nice and it feels rewarding to play around it, especially when reworked as intensively as in LotI.
...Which brings me to another point : Legacy of the Daywalker. No idea what to include into it, but I guess you get it? Got ideas for nightly drawbacks though : maybe not damage but rather things like being scared, or less resilient during night time (if thats possible), or slower at night (if thats possible)... still no ideas for bonuses though :mrgreen:

About Watchtower :
Though numbers would have to be watched, definitely interesting. steadfast/unyielding are very strong (perhaps too much and can lead to OP), but shield(20) is really nice and incentivizes tactical play rather than building an immortal unit. Other possibilities could include things such as Thorns/Reflect (always fun to play with), and perhaps absorb (up to 2 max probably, but again could lead to OP)

About Decay :
Definitely agree some more phys pen is needed, but probably gated behind some other things. Something else that goes well with the Decay theme (as in enemy armors and weapons rotting) would be despair, or more specifically... is it possible to make a physical despair? An aura that would reduce physical damage of adjacent enemies. Or to make up for the power of frail tide, give the legacy hybrid bonuses, such as some that affect only the unit itself, and some that affect only it's allies. The only problem with this is the contradiction with the Decay theme, whom seems to indicate weaker enemies rather then helping allies/oneself. Radiation (poison aura for allies) maybe though?
Last idea : If you want to make it stronger, make frail tide a solo or at least dangerous aura that affects allies as well, and add something like leeches, or perhaps a death aura that hurts allies too... in other words powerful weakening/damage all around the unit, but to all whom approach friend or foe. Don't know if I like the idea since it promotes solo-playing units... but with no sustain or defense bonus though, so probably not heading towards the OP direction.

Delicius169
Posts: 178
Joined: February 16th, 2015, 5:02 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Delicius169 »

Hello, I have little question: I have last version of LOTI which is on official adon server (I dont understand gitub), and I had a message about possibility to summon Belzebub. It was in scenario Phoenix. Now I am 12 scenarios further- in scenario The den of the evil, and I still didnt find place where to sumon Belzebub.
I think I could save up at least same amount of free rounds by that time. But maybe I just overlooked it....
thanks for answer...

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4944
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

#Daywalker
Maybe an additional +70% damage during the day and -70% damage at night. But unlike the photophobia ability, I am not quite certain how to implement this, he would have to check illumination around him before attack somehow, but that would not show anything when choosing attacks. If it was decided at the beginning of turn, it would be quite weird.

#Decay
Physical despair can be done.
I was considering the possibility to give him something like leeches. Your point about enabling soloing is well taken, I have recently added a legacy that forces the unit to go solo.

@Delicius169
You have to use the github version, I haven't uploaded the fix to the server yet because there are some known bugs yet.

Jeffers0n
Posts: 106
Joined: April 12th, 2013, 2:46 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Jeffers0n »

Daywalker could also give night-blindness which would lower accuracy
and maybe give the unit a blind ability that lowers enemies chance to hit

Ashes
Posts: 95
Joined: July 8th, 2015, 8:59 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Ashes »

Hello again.
I want to raise the issue of "absorbs" stacking.
For example, a young Duelist Wizard with a Redshirt Armour has "absorbs (1)" which heals 1 hp after being hit.
After having taken the advancement "able to heal from ..." she still has "aborbs (1)".
But after the next advancement she has both "absorbs (1)" and "absorbs (2)" and heals 3 hp after being hit.

While I understand why the current implementation generates this behaviour, I think that it would have been better if her ability had improved to "absorbs (2)" and then "absorbs (3)".
But I fear that it needs a large rewriting of how wearing an item affects abilities: instead of adding the ability to the list of the unit'a abilities, I think that there has to be a mechanism for ability stacking. And this mechanism would have side effects, maybe unwanted ones, like having a Mage of Light wearing a Prayer amour may cause him to heal 16HP per turn.

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4944
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

@Jeffers0n
People would override that with some precision-setting weapon specials, making the penalty void.

@Ashes
There are two ways to deal with it. First is to check if the unit has more 'absorbs' abilities and remove all but the strongest one. Another is to transform it to an item modifier that would generate the ability according to the sum of the properties.

User avatar
arobinson
Posts: 207
Joined: June 6th, 2010, 12:05 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by arobinson »

Intentional or bug?
Spoiler:
Thanks
Last edited by arobinson on August 29th, 2016, 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Running Wesnoth 1.12.4 on Mac OSX 10.10
Campaigns:

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4944
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

arobinson wrote:Intentional or bug?
Spoiler:
Thanks
That's the way the game works. The add-on's code cannot decide about that.

User avatar
arobinson
Posts: 207
Joined: June 6th, 2010, 12:05 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by arobinson »

Dugi wrote:
arobinson wrote:Intentional or bug?
Spoiler:
Thanks
That's the way the game works. The add-on's code cannot decide about that.
The item could remove the illumination if present though couldn't it?
Running Wesnoth 1.12.4 on Mac OSX 10.10
Campaigns:

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4944
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

arobinson wrote:...
The item could remove the illumination if present though couldn't it?
It might do that. Do you want some other items to remove illumination as well?

User avatar
arobinson
Posts: 207
Joined: June 6th, 2010, 12:05 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by arobinson »

Dugi wrote:
arobinson wrote:...
The item could remove the illumination if present though couldn't it?
It might do that. Do you want some other items to remove illumination as well?
Perhaps anything that adds darkens removes illumination and anything that adds illumination removes any darkens abilities?

Thank you.
Running Wesnoth 1.12.4 on Mac OSX 10.10
Campaigns:

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4944
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

arobinson wrote:...
Perhaps anything that adds darkens removes illumination and anything that adds illumination removes any darkens abilities?
I see there a little problem that giving darkening to a (usually lawful) unit with illumination is usually a bit nonsensical. Your case is quite unique because the item already has the change of alignment.

Post Reply