Legend of the Invincibles

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Which of these units you find worth advancing and gearing heavily? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

Elvish Nightprowler
17
15%
Elvish Overlord
7
6%
Elvish Seer
16
14%
Elvish Warlord
5
4%
Exterminator
14
12%
Forester
3
3%
Goblin Ravager
0
No votes
Goblin Warbanner
0
No votes
Grim Knight
0
No votes
Faerie Incarnation
16
14%
Infernal Knight
5
4%
Lich King
6
5%
Lunatic Knight
10
9%
Monstrosity
0
No votes
Orcish Nightblade
0
No votes
Orcish Strafer
4
3%
Pilum Master
4
3%
Orcish Warmonger
3
3%
Phantom
3
3%
Predator
3
3%
 
Total votes: 116

Whiskeyjack
Posts: 471
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Location: Germany

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Whiskeyjack »

I just looked up an old save: I had ~1,5k gold at Akula´s palace and I did abuse the storerooms and cleared every room. I have no memory if (and if yes, for what) I spent gold on anything in that chapter.

I don´t know if that is a big or small amount of gold to have at this point, but based on this number I would suggest 20 gold steps (meaning 12 slots at 1560 gold) and 8 starting slots for chapter 5.

And I just realized that you still lose gold if you are leveled too high. Is this still different from chapter 9 in the current version? If the recall slots are less that would result in more gold early on because of less upkeed than I had to pay.
Under blood-red skies, an old man sits
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

And I just realized that you still lose gold if you are leveled too high. Is this still different from chapter 9 in the current version? If the recall slots are less that would result in more gold early on because of less upkeed than I had to pay.
What? There is no upkeep in later chapter 5 and in chapter 9. Or, better to say, there is upkeep, but it is not paid. If you noticed some, it's most likely a bug. Last time I was reported this problem, it turned out to be actually an income and it came from the thieves' stealing ability.

Okay, so is this what you guys want?
slots...ch5.....ch5 total.......ch9.....ch9 total
8.......0.......0...............0.......0
9.......25......25..............100.....100
10......50......75..............200.....300
11......75......150.............300.....600
12......100.....250.............400.....1000
13......125.....375.............500.....1500
14......150.....525.............600.....2100
15......175.....700.............700.....2800
16......200.....900.............800.....3600
17......225.....1125............900.....4500
18......250.....1375............1000....5500
19......275.....1650............1100....6600
20......300.....1950............1200....7800

Ashes
Posts: 95
Joined: July 8th, 2015, 8:59 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Ashes »

dabber wrote:I checked my saved game. After clearing all of Chapter 9, and admittedly farming some of it, I entered Execrable Sanctum with 8747 gold.
I did some farming too, but I only had 5686 gold.
Whiskeyjack wrote:I just looked up an old save: I had ~1,5k gold at Akula´s palace and I did abuse the storerooms and cleared every room.
I had 1656 gold when entering Akula's Place.

Whiskeyjack
Posts: 471
Joined: February 7th, 2015, 1:27 am
Location: Germany

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Whiskeyjack »

What? There is no upkeep in later chapter 5 and in chapter 9. Or, better to say, there is upkeep, but it is not paid. If you noticed some, it's most likely a bug. Last time I was reported this problem, it turned out to be actually an income and it came from the thieves' stealing ability.
I don´t know, it was some versions earlier, that I played this scenario. I just visited one of the few save files I had and pressed end turn, see for yourself.
Attachments
LotI1-Southern_Guardian_R..._Turn_10.gz
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Under blood-red skies, an old man sits
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.

Raijer
Posts: 425
Joined: April 25th, 2013, 9:00 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Raijer »

Dugi wrote:It reduces the amount of experience the unit needs to gain by 20%. This allows the unit to reach AMLA faster, but once the unit takes the first advancement, it increases the amount of exp it needs to gain by 20% and then the amount of experience needed to advance becomes almost the same as if it had not the trait. So it's not much better.
Wait wait wait... Since when does the intelligent trait increases the amount of exp needed for the second AMLA ? Is that something you implemented or is it already here in the game?


Out of that nothing to say, the idea to buy recall slots sounds good, and it's coherent with the amount of gold I had at those moments.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

William Ernest Henley

Ashes
Posts: 95
Joined: July 8th, 2015, 8:59 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Ashes »

I just had a new idea on items...
I think it is frustrating when few items are dropping and when you are looking for a specific item.
But of course having too many items disrupts the game.
What if using an item could destroy it?
Either we could have a small probability for an item to be destroyed each time it is used, or a number of uses after which the item becomes useless, or the item could lose some of its efficiency each time it is used.
We would need to replace old items by new ones, from time to time...

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Whiskeyjack wrote:I just visited one of the few save files I had and pressed end turn, see for yourself.
The upkeeps takes effect and then it's undone. The change rolls back after a second or two.
Raijer wrote:Wait wait wait... Since when does the intelligent trait increases the amount of exp needed for the second AMLA ? Is that something you implemented or is it already here in the game?
No. I just meant that the effect of the intelligent trait and the effect of a one AMLA on experience almost negate themselves.
Ashes wrote:What if using an item could destroy it?
I disagree. You would have to spend too much time managing the items. I remember this from Diablo II, it was rather a nuisance (but it added an interesting mechanic).
_________________
I have made an update to the campaign. It contains all the changes I mentioned I had done, but also:
  • the damage of black souls is increased on higher difficulties (can't remember who requested it)
  • Coded the variable limits to chapter 5 and chapter 9 autorecall lists
  • Added 10 items
  • Used an updated version of AI from mattsc, leaders should no longer attack stupidly and enemies should not behave strangely anymore
  • Added a German translation, it is not and never will be perfect, because some strings are changed over time and it's not possible to keep it completely up-to-date, but 99% should be translated

dabber
Posts: 384
Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

A few unit differences I think are worth mentioning. Mainly you didn't fix the hitpoints of Uria and her avatar.
Uria_avatar.diff
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Uria.diff
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Elvish_Nightprowler.diff
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Champion.diff
(234 Bytes) Downloaded 62 times
Abilities_events.cfg line 4814 says "round=bottom" when it should be "round=floor".


I disagree with removing the suck entirely from Bow of Plagiarism on HARD. To me, suck fits with the concept and the special ability needs to be joined with some healing, since the whole idea is to not kill something.
I strongly disagree with removing suck from Dying Dreams. For me, the suck 1 is literally the only reason to craft the item. Despair 15 is sometimes a disadvantage, because Wesnoth is bugged and Despair 15 overrides a stronger Despair from somewhere else.

Ashes
Posts: 95
Joined: July 8th, 2015, 8:59 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Ashes »

Dugi wrote:I have made an update to the campaign. It contains all the changes I mentioned I had done (...)
Thanks!
However, my patch to "get_attack_specials" in global_events.cfg was not fully applied, and therefore is not working.
The variable special_name is not set to v[1], therefore the test special_name == "dummy" always fails.

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

dabber wrote:Mainly you didn't fix the hitpoints of Uria and her avatar.
I corrected one value triplet, but forgot about the other two.
dabber wrote:Elvish_Nightprowler.diff
One of the changes was undoing one of my corrections. I have not performed it.
dabber wrote:I disagree with removing the suck entirely
Okay, okay, you know it better, undoing it. Please watch out to see if it's not overly used to stack suck which is quite hard to get now.
dabber wrote:Abilities_events.cfg line 4814 says "round=bottom" when it should be "round=floor".
Fixed. It should not cause much trouble because the conditions are set so that wrath 1 or -1 (lethargy 1) is always removed.
Ashes wrote:However, my patch to "get_attack_specials" in global_events.cfg was not fully applied, and therefore is not working.
Fixed. Tested it with suck, it shows. Dunno why I haven't noticed it before.

I have uploaded the changes without bumping the version number because they are quite small and it is a large download. You can delete the campaign and reinstall it if you have already installed it and want these few changes.

dabber
Posts: 384
Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

Dugi wrote:One of the changes was undoing one of my corrections. I have not performed it.
I apologize for the disturbing error rate in "corrections" I give you. I know I give some valuable feedback, but I'm shocked by how often I tell you something blatantly wrong. Thanks for all the effort you put into these campaigns.

Ashes
Posts: 95
Joined: July 8th, 2015, 8:59 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Ashes »

Dugi wrote:In most scenarios, turns aren't unlimited, but I have forgotten to do it in some cases.
The last version you uploaded has an unlimited scenarios3/14_Chasing_Dragons
It can be used to level Efraim and Lethalia (and others, but it is less useful).

As always, the trick is to make sure that our allies will not kill the enemy leaders. For this scenario it not straightforward because (in HARD difficulty) the allies are only slightly weaker than the dragons. I had to prevent them to recruit, or they will collect more XP than my units!

dabber
Posts: 384
Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

In demons_race.cfg, there are a few traits where you forgot mode=append:
ghostly, line 121
evanescent, line 593
opportunist, line 615
crushing, line 695


Ashes, I think the last time I played Chasing Dragons, I intentionally backed off at the start of the scenario, to let the dragons put their full forces against our "allies". That broke their initial wave and left me less ... impeded ... in killing the dragons myself. I think.

I also believe these changes to chapter 9 Pandemonium are correct.

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>                                 {CLEAR_VARIABLE we_cannot_harm_her}

Ashes
Posts: 95
Joined: July 8th, 2015, 8:59 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Ashes »

Dugi wrote:
dabber wrote:I disagree with removing the suck entirely
Okay, okay, you know it better, undoing it. Please watch out to see if it's not overly used to stack suck which is quite hard to get now.
I think that the removal of suck from many items (especially in hard) will make Leech and Drain more important. And they are difficult to find in items.

Looking at Efraim and Lethalia in LotI part 1, Lethalia was very versatile at combat because we could make her use Axes to suck, or Staff to drain. Now I think that her axe attacks are almost useless and that one should always AMLA the staff. She was often a better fighter than Efraim, but I think that now it will always be the reverse: Efraim can leech with the sword and the fear attack, and the knife stays very useful too because Soul Drinker still sucks 2.
The shadow wave ranged attack becomes very interesting too (drain/leech/explosive leech) but Lethalia already has a powerful ranged arcane attack!

By the way... Digging into the amla.cfg file, I noticed that the Tome of Liches can be used to increase the soul hunter's shadow wave. I guess that it is not intended, but I don't think it is an issue.

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

dabber wrote:I'm shocked by how often I tell you something blatantly wrong.
That's why I often check what I am sent. Although it's not enough to find every possible flaw, I find random errors. Mistakes happen to everyone.
Ashes wrote:The last version you uploaded has an unlimited scenarios3/14_Chasing_Dragons
I think that it had unlimited turns from version 1.0.0, but I changed it to 100 now.
Ashes wrote:For this scenario it not straightforward because (in HARD difficulty) the allies are only slightly weaker than the dragons. I had to prevent them to recruit, or they will collect more XP than my units!
The orcish side had huge village gold. Lowered it, and also decreased their starting gold on normal and hard.
dabber wrote:In demons_race.cfg, there are a few traits where you forgot mode=append:
Oops. Corrected.
dabber wrote:I also believe these changes to chapter 9 Pandemonium are correct.
Correct. The impossibility to make local variables in WML is somewhat annoying.
Ashes wrote:I think that the removal of suck from many items (especially in hard) will make Leech and Drain more important. And they are difficult to find in items.
The low importance of leech was the reason why was suck criticised.
Ashes wrote:The shadow wave ranged attack becomes very interesting too (drain/leech/explosive leech) but Lethalia already has a powerful ranged arcane attack!
So you have a choice. Save AMLA by focusing on faerie fire or have ranged leech? I like choices like this.
Ashes wrote:By the way... Digging into the amla.cfg file, I noticed that the Tome of Liches can be used to increase the soul hunter's shadow wave. I guess that it is not intended, but I don't think it is an issue.
It is not intended, but I don't think it is an issue.
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