Legend of the Invincibles

[Dugi]

Bug in Scenario: "Who Am I". If you find clues to their past (Lethalia's staff and armor) before you kill the undead enemy leader, you can't advance to the next scenario; Efraim comments that you still need to find those clues.

How often does it happen that a player finds these items before killing that undead leader? I somehow forgot that this is possible.
Anyway, I changed it, it's now impossible to un-complete the objective to find these items by killing the undead leader. Thanks for reporting.

I notice this update included a number of items changed between "blade_resist" and "resist_blade" (and other damage types).

As you guessed, resist_blade does nothing, blade_resist is the order that should have been used. I have difficulties to remember which one is correct (because some video games use one version, others use another one), I always forget how should it be after some time and when adding items after a longer period of no manipulation with items. I fixed all problems of this kind in this update.

The Scenario 8.4 Kidnapped events are sort of fixed. Now they fired when I walked into the castles where the Demon leaders appear, but not before. I attempted to walk over every terrain type on the way too. Why have the filter on terrain type at all?

It seems that these filter_radius work differently than I thought. They were meant to make sure that the game will not think that you've come close if there are some impassable mountains on the way. Removed them anyway, now it should simply fix if the distance is shorter than 15 and if it is, the enemy will appear.

To get the new items, I need to either restart, or hack the save game to add them? Am I correct that abilities and their events get re-loaded when a scenario starts, but items do not?

Items are reloaded too. Small bugs may appear during the first scenario started after the update, but it should be okay during the second one.

[Raijer]

In "Passage of Detriment", you've really got to put enemies (or the scenario's just broken, anyway there aren't any), because the lag is far from being enough to stop people from going through (i've got a half the map discovered already).


EDIT: Forget what i said, i found one. Well, a little more enemies wouldn't be bad.

[dabber]

Leaders don't have traits. But you're right, demon leaders without traits are a bit... wimpy. Although it's a bit of work, I made demon leaders have traits anyway.

Understood. But the Scenario 8.4 Demon leaders who appear via events still don't have traits.

[wuxiangjinxing]

A small bug: in item_list.cfg, line 4098

[object]
name= _ "Beyond Death"
# image=items/armor-undead.png
image=items/armour-undead.png

[Dugi]

In "Passage of Detriment", you've really got to put enemies (or the scenario's just broken, anyway there aren't any), because the lag is far from being enough to stop people from going through (i've got a half the map discovered already).

I some enemies spawn there, but very scarcely (but strong ones). The AI would cause an extreme lag if there were many units. It's possible unlikely that they don't appear because of some bugs.

Understood. But the Scenario 8.4 Demon leaders who appear via events still don't have traits.

Dammit, forgot about those ones. I generalised your problem a bit too much.

EDIT: Gave them custom traits, gave one a strong offensive combination and a defensive combination to another. I found a bug while fixing this, these three leaders were supposed to be unable to leave their keeps and risk their lives and they weren't, fixed that one too.

A small bug...

Thanks.

[dabber]

In selecting redeem advancements, Blizzard is said to slow a lot of units. But it doesn't slow.

Lethalia's half god advancement for "better protected from magical attacks" is described as providing 3% each, but is coded as 2% each. The 3% might have been intended because her starting resistances are slightly worse, but maybe that is wishful thinking on my part.

Thundering Revenge does not show up on my crafting list. I believe the line
sort=weaponword
was left out.

The Demon leaders that appear in 8.8 The Desert don't have traits.

Thank you for improving the tab/spacing of the "Unit Information" panel. All advancements past the first are still hugely indented though.
It would also be neat if you could put the current soul eater / redeem values (current and target) in there somehow. Both these are minor suggestion only, they aren't critical.

[dabber]

The ability description of Thorns says it only works in melee, but it appears to work at range as well.

I also found a level 11 demon Fugitive with Quick Resilient traits, but I cannot offer an explanation of what created her.

[Dugi]

In selecting redeem advancements, Blizzard is said to slow a lot of units. But it doesn't slow.

I forgot to give it the slow weapon special. Strange that nobody reported this yet. The attack might become overpowered with it, we shall see how it will end up.

Lethalia's half god advancement for "better protected from magical attacks" is described as providing 3% each, but is coded as 2% each. The 3% might have been intended because her starting resistances are slightly worse, but maybe that is wishful thinking on my part.

I can't remember how it was, but I increased the resistance increase to 3% from 2%.

Thundering Revenge does not show up on my crafting list.

Correct guess, I missed that line somehow.

The Demon leaders that appear in 8.8 The Desert don't have traits.

Gave them some custom, nasty trait combinations.

Thank you for improving the tab/spacing of the "Unit Information" panel. All advancements past the first are still hugely indented though.

I haven't done anything with the indentation. I know that the indentation appeared, but I have no damned idea why. It appeared when I added support for translations of the menu, but it gives me no clues.

It would also be neat if you could put the current soul eater / redeem values (current and target) in there somehow. Both these are minor suggestion only, they aren't critical.

Added it. Also for Krux' lesser redeem, the foul potion's starvation counter, wrath level and from the ashes cooldown.

The ability description of Thorns says it only works in melee, but it appears to work at range as well.

It was supposed to work only in melee, fixed it.

I also found a level 11 demon Fugitive with Quick Resilient traits, but I cannot offer an explanation of what created her.

Demon Infiltrator Fugitive had its race set to human instead of demon. Fixed.

Generally, thanks for the valuable bug reports.

[dabber]

In selecting redeem advancements, Blizzard is said to slow a lot of units. But it doesn't slow.

I forgot to give it the slow weapon special. Strange that nobody reported this yet. The attack might become overpowered with it, we shall see how it will end up.

Nothing tells what Storm specifically does, so a while back I experimented with grabbing Blizzard and testing it (which led to the hose bug report). I concluded it wasn't worth spending a level to get Blizzard, because the slow effect of Arctic Blast was more important than damage to more targets. I haven't seen any significant benefit to damage type cold, so without slow, I think Firestorm is no-brainer better than Blizzard. With slow ... I wish I had given Efraim Blizzard instead of Arctic Blast.

What is kinda needed is partial slow. Instead of half move and half damage, reduce both by 1/3. That would give Blizzard a clear benefit (more targets), but not make it absolutely better than Arctic Blast in all situations.
As a concept, why take Arctic Blast or Fireblast? Aren't Blizzard and Firestorm just better?


Scenario 8.4 Desert has been unusually easy compared to other anti-Demon scenarios. It feels like more a Redeem opportunity than a combat mission. I'd guess more than half the enemies that have appeared are level 3 or lower, which makes them no threat and AoE redeem fodder. I've seen significant numbers of level 5 demons along the lava, but probably half and half with the imps. Several dozen level 5s elsewhere, and a few level 8+ guys, but not enough concentration to ever be a threat. I'm used to Efraim crushing armies by himself, but this time Lethalia is also able to wonder around almost at will and I normally have to tread carefully with her. Have I been unusually lucky with spawns, or is this intentional?

[dabber]

In 8.4 Desert, you have a random spawn point like this:

Code: Select all

{VARIABLE_OP spawn_x rand (51,60)}
{VARIABLE_OP spawn_y rand (82,97)}

The 97 should be changed to 98, because 51,97 is in a wall.


I also think you put the Trader in 8.4 Desert not where you intended. He is near the start, but I think he belongs in the south.


By the way, is it intentional that Demons have 100% defense in impassable terrain so players will not get free kills when they spawn oddly?



Grammar issue in Scenario 8.5, line 373
"It is strange how do react the other of their victims, named gladiators, probably before they can make the demons glad."
I do not know what this is trying to say.
Maybe you just mean "It is strange how the other victims react."

[Dugi]

As a concept, why take Arctic Blast or Fireblast? Aren't Blizzard and Firestorm just better?

Arctic Blast and Fireblast needs less redeem levels to spend and have a different shape... in theory. I don't think I have enough experience with it myself to tell.

Scenario 8.4 Desert has been unusually easy compared to other anti-Demon scenarios.

Understood. Changed the composition of enemies coming from spawn points, reducing the number of Imps and increasing the number of higher demons. Reduced the chance that groups of low level monsters spawn.

The 97 should be changed to 98, because 51,97 is in a wall.

Done. Seems like something I created when changing the map a bit long after creating it.

By the way, is it intentional that Demons have 100% defense in impassable terrain so players will not get free kills when they spawn oddly?

It's the default behaviour of the game, they don't have any defence set there.

Grammar issue in Scenario 8.5, line 373

It's in scenario 8.9, not 8.5. If you aren't sure about the scenario number, write its name instead.
Reworded that dialogue line.

[Battlecruiser_Venca]

By the way, is it intentional that Demons have 100% defense in impassable terrain so players will not get free kills when they spawn oddly?

It's the default behaviour of the game, they don't have any defence set there.

The default units have 0% in impassable so setting that so would make constitency with other units. Unless it's intended that you have to use magical/marksman/etc in some places to be able to kill them.

[dabber]

Babble about legacies ....
Before this update, I thought Titans was one of the best Legacies ... it combined two normal AMLAs (melee dmg and resist) into a single AMLA, so you get more faster. Now it is not just a combo of existing AMLAs, but provides better resistance than resistance AMLAs. That said, I find physical resistance of minimal value in LotI2.
The Dragon legacies look like the weakest to me. The ranged attack is handy on someone with no ranged attack, but it is weaker than what most units have naturally, and does not get improved by a weapon. I typically take the melee bonus and skip the rest. But maybe I am not valuing the improved elemental resist properly, and I should be more eager to take dragon legacy AMLAs.
I haven't used undead legacy yet, because lowering arcane and fire resist looks scary. But leeches at the end would be nice, so maybe I'll brave it.
I see the value of Legacy of Kings, but for me it keeps showing up on a unit I don't want tied to others, so I haven't used it.

How good are legacies supposed to be? Should the player often want the legacy AMLAs instead of normal unit AMLAs? Should the player usually only prefer the legacy over the later stage AMLAs (such as +1 dmg up to 10 times)?

My ranking of legacy desirability is pretty clear:
Sorrow
Titans
Kings
Light (conditionally, some units almost won't touch it)
any dragon
Undead

[Dugi]

The default units have 0% in impassable so setting that so would make constitency with other units. Unless it's intended that you have to use magical/marksman/etc in some places to be able to kill them.

Hm, it appears that I set it intentionally. I am not sure why have I done that.

Babble about legacies ....

I wanted the legacies to be some kind of alternative to the usual AMLA, usually stronger but not necessarily suitable for the unit. They aren't used much and so I didn't get much feedback regarding their balance.

The intended uses:
Sorrow - weakening nearby enemies
Titans - general strength
Kings - improving nearby allies
Light - bonuses for lawful units (plus that niche reverse-plague ability)
Dragon - ranged attack (which may be useful for units that have none to allow retaliation)
Undead - total resistances and leech (the fire and arcane weakness can be mitigated by items, gaining all the other resistances just from gear might be harder)
Phoenix - focused on the abilities gained (you forgot this one)

It may be possible that some of them are not as good as originally intended, so here's my suggestion how might they be balanced:
Sorrow - reduce damage (the reduced resistance of nearby enemies will make up for it to some extent)
Titans - fine, maybe add some magical resistances and reduce physical ones
Kings - fine
Light - fine
Dragon(s) - add more advancements that don't add the ranged attack, just affect damage and resistances or movement speed
Undead - reduce penalties, add some weak despair
Phoenix - no feedback so far, thus no changes
Before doing these changes, I'd like to see feedback from other players, following one person's opinion is not the best way to deal with balance.

[dabber]

Before doing these changes, I'd like to see feedback from other players, following one person's opinion is not the best way to deal with balance.

Absolutely. It is entirely possible my current thinking is wrong!
I'll probably hack one of my units that hasn't revealed their legacy to have Phoenix Legacy just to play with it.

I would not put damage reduction into Sorrow. If you wanted to make it weaker, make the Conviction lower, like 5, 10 then 15 (and no 20).