Legend of the Invincibles

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Which of these units you find worth advancing and gearing heavily? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

Elvish Nightprowler
5
14%
Elvish Overlord
0
No votes
Elvish Seer
7
20%
Elvish Warlord
1
3%
Exterminator
5
14%
Forester
0
No votes
Goblin Ravager
0
No votes
Goblin Warbanner
0
No votes
Grim Knight
0
No votes
Faerie Incarnation
7
20%
Infernal Knight
1
3%
Lich King
3
9%
Lunatic Knight
4
11%
Monstrosity
0
No votes
Orcish Nightblade
0
No votes
Orcish Strafer
1
3%
Pilum Master
0
No votes
Orcish Warmonger
1
3%
Phantom
0
No votes
Predator
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 35

lhaire
Posts: 23
Joined: April 21st, 2014, 8:29 pm

Phantom advancements

Post by lhaire »

Hello,

For a Phantom unit, it appears the axe and whirlwind capability max. out after the unit reaches a certain level(?) When I advance the unit I can choose "better at axe combat" or "whirling better", but when I choose either of those options neither the damage or # attacks increases - they just stay the same as they did before. Was it intended to max. out their attack capability? And if so, why are the options given during advancement when they don't do anything after a certain level?

Regards.

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

I have found the cause of the suck issue. It was a bad iterator (in C++, it would not even compile, but in WML, it can easily stay hidden). It explains why it has problems only in defence and it works sometimes.

@Konrad2
Different portrait? I have drawn a custom portrait for him some time ago, where do you see the wrong one?

The vision range is increased only by 1 by that item, but there is a bug that it shows twice. I thought I had fixed it, but if you've seen it in recent save files made from fresh start, then it's quite a problem.

These gold amounts in the Journey South scenario made no sense, so I fixed it. Made the Draugs loyal. The allies will move to help because their leader joined you and still has some control over them.

Why shouldn't be Delly chaotic after being preserved? Her combat style was based on sneaking (story-wise), so she should profit from the darkness.

It's intended that the trolls have income unlike others because their starting gold depends on the number of trolls you killed in Dealing with Trolls. If they start with negative gold, the income will allow them to join the battle to some extent instead of standing there vacantly.

Lost: It's intentional that they fight each other. The teams are all named 'Undead' because naming them 'Undead 1', 'Undead 2' etc would be strange.

Gehenna: Halved the turn count and removed the early finish bonus :twisted:

Achilles' Revenge: The code for recalling all units is the same here than in other scenarios in this chapter. Strange...

Two possible advancements to the same unit: This old bug happens completely randomly and is very annoying. I will rewrite this part of the code when 1.12 comes out and 1.10 becomes obsolete, because I think that there is no way to prevent this bug from appearing from time to time on 1.10.

Insane amounts of gold: What if endless recruitment was intended?

Chasing Dragons: I reduced it, but it's still somewhat too much if you save gold and finish Gehenna after 20 turns.

@Cloverr92
That would make sense, I'll think about that.

@Raijer
Couldn't replicate that. Neither on 1.10 nor on 1.11.

@dabber
The idea behind that spell is that you should be capable of returning your old recalls there, but they should be dead eons ago. So the leaders kept their souls (that's something that they're quite good at) and learned to puke them away, but don't have much control over it. The idea why they started using these spells is that they are facing a great danger and decided that using risky magic is necessary. Do you think that I should add this explanation somewhere?

@GodlyDragon
I could not replicate it. It seems to work correctly. Also, add-ons shouldn't crash the game. I think that it's a bug in your version of wesnoth, try to update to a newer version of write a bug report.

@lhaire
The effect of the whirling better advancement does not show in the advacement window, but it will have affect after advancing. Better at axe combat should have an effect if it's there (the damage is capped, but when you reach the cap, you will no longer see any advancements that add damage, and it's unlikely to reach, it needs 13 damage advancements), but I can't find an error in the code. Can you show me a save file or something where it's visible?

_________________
Sorry for the delay replying took me, I am also working on the new campaign I mentioned not long ago. My progress is at about 60%.

Konrad2
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Konrad2 »

@dugi
regarding the trolls you are in the wrong scenario, even in the wrong chapter xD i am refering to the trolls in "Journey South"

the "different portrait": in "Lilith" Stormrider shows up at the end and he has not a custom one

dabber
Posts: 378
Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

Dugi wrote:I have found the cause of the suck issue. It was a bad iterator (in C++, it would not even compile, but in WML, it can easily stay hidden). It explains why it has problems only in defence and it works sometimes.
Yeah! Would you post the code snippet for the defense event, so I can fix my game?
Dugi wrote:@dabber
The idea behind that spell is that you should be capable of returning your old recalls there, but they should be dead eons ago. So the leaders kept their souls (that's something that they're quite good at) and learned to puke them away, but don't have much control over it. The idea why they started using these spells is that they are facing a great danger and decided that using risky magic is necessary. Do you think that I should add this explanation somewhere?
I think it deserves some extra explanation for the player. I suggest putting something at the end of scenario 5.5, after the discussion of the teleporation spell. For example,
Lethalia says "This ... thing ... is beyond anything ever seen in this world. We need to take a few risks to pull in more power. I have something that should let us summon a bunch of ghosts or skeletons at once."
Efraim says "You are right. I think we need to recall the souls of some of our former companions to help us save this world."
Lethalia says "That would be great, but I'm not sure we can control who we get each time we cast that spell."
Efraim says "Then we'll have to cast it more than once!"
Lethalia says "(laughing) Okay. More directly, I see a way to call a Meteor down from the heavens."
Efraim says "That will surely hurt these monsters. So would making a volcano errupt under them."
Lethalia says "I also have a way to convert hostile undead to our control."
Efraim says "This is powerful stuff we are messing with, but I don't see any choice"

Maybe that's too much text.



Also. Chapter 5 undesirable behavior - it is possible for guys coming out of trapdoors to appear in walls or floating over impassable chasm. Looks to be caused by too many other units around the trapdoor. Not fatal, but it would be nice to fix it. Probably not easy to fix though.

dabber
Posts: 378
Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

Another undesirable. If "Merges Attacks" is applied to something with only 1 attack, it now has 0 attacks and doesn't work. I have an Exterminator with Xuanquang's Soul Harvest (scythe, merges attacks) and gained Whirlwind. I have to remove the weapon in order to use the Whirlwind.

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

@Konrad2
The troll income is clearly intended, but I am not sure why (I wrote it more than 4 years ago). Probably to add some variety, to make these encounters differ more.

Fixed the Stormrider portrait there.

@dabber
Yeah! Would you post the code snippet for the defense event, so I can fix my game?
In the defender hits event for suck, change this:
{FOREACH weapon.specials.dummy i}
to:
{FOREACH second_weapon.specials.dummy i}
I think it deserves some extra explanation for the player. I suggest putting something at the end of scenario 5.5, after the discussion of the teleporation spell.
Okay, added it, though the wording is different.
Chapter 5 undesirable behavior - it is possible for guys coming out of trapdoors to appear in walls or floating over impassable chasm. Looks to be caused by too many other units around the trapdoor. Not fatal, but it would be nice to fix it. Probably not easy to fix though.
Wesnoth has a problem with finding alternative placing for units, frequently placing them into walls. The only alternative to the solution currently used I can think of is to prevent them from spawning if there is a unit standing on the trapdoor, but it might be exploited my placing weaker units there to limit enemy spawning.
Another undesirable. If "Merges Attacks" is applied to something with only 1 attack, it now has 0 attacks and doesn't work. I have an Exterminator with Xuanquang's Soul Harvest (scythe, merges attacks) and gained Whirlwind. I have to remove the weapon in order to use the Whirlwind.
Fixed. The case when it happens is more complicated as you thought, but I figured it out. The problem is that Whirlwind on Exterminator isn't a normal attack, it's an attack based on another attack (special thing coded in LotI, you'll find no wiki entry about this). And it was supposed to use a lesser attack count than the primary attack, and when the attack count of the primary attack was just 1, it dropped to 0. It would never happen with weapons that reduce attack count or when using an attack merging weapon on an attack that has just one hit, it happens just with this particular combination.

Raijer
Posts: 425
Joined: April 25th, 2013, 9:00 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Raijer »

About the bug with the lich: i can't seem to have it again either, though i could reproduce it easily before...

Anyway, new bug: when instantly killing an enemy using "kamikaze spirit", the enemy gets negative hitpoints. Joining a save file before it.
Killing the voracious herb in 31,21 so that the deathshroom gets attacked should show it (use whirlwind). Also joining the save file after the supposed kill.
And my unit is taking damage when using kamikaze. Is that intended ?

Also, only the main target gives exp with kamikaze, no ? (just checking)
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I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

William Ernest Henley

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Fixed the negative hitpoints bug. The unit is supposed to take damage when using that attack, in a way that all opponent's attacks are merged too and hit the attacker (if this damage is greater than the attacker's hitpoints, the weapon special will have no effect). Also made it take effect after whirlwind (it semed quite buggy otherwise).

And yeah, only the main target gives exp.

Thanks for reporting.

xuanquang
Posts: 39
Joined: May 4th, 2014, 2:50 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by xuanquang »

Hi,
I'm playing chapter 10 now. There are something wrong with the orcs. When I equip the orcish crossbowman a xbow, only the pierce attack takes effects of the item. The fire attack does not have any change. The orcish slayer and units of it's line can bring a knife, but the attack is still "throwing knives", no bonus damage.

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docrock
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by docrock »

that is one hell of a campaign. respect. despite its lacking some balancing moneywise and some balancing turnwise. whatever, u did a great job.
Postings may contain traces of sense.
The ministry of health warns:
Living is dangerous to your health and may finally result in death.
You are a Dwarvish Berserker: you're freaking crazy and enjoy it. (100% ...)

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

@xuanquang
Fiery bow/crossbow attacks were erroneously identified as spells and improved by effects increasing spell damage. Fixed the throwing knives attack problem, it problem was that it was looking for an attack named throwing knife and not throwing knives. Fixed both, the fixes will be a part of the next version.

@dockrock
Thanks for approval.
I know that chapter 3 has somewhat too much gold. Which scenarios have too many turns in your opinion? Some scenarios have a turn limit just to prevent players from killing enemies endlessly to get experience to units easily, but if there is an early finish bonus, decreasing the turn limit might be a good thing to do.

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docrock
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by docrock »

well, i did not state my point clearly. my fault, sorry. it was about your campaign being hard. or being easy. the difference between certain scenarios is tough to manage. Sometimes it takes like 2 or 3 approaches to finally get to the point of a scenario. just to realize 2-3 scenarios later that u did not finish it with enough gold. same goes for deciding if its a good time to run or to fight. Some clearer descriptions would help there i guess. Infinite Legion is one of those. That one is so mean. It's just "now i got it, hell how could i be so stupid". I never cared about turns, was happy to finish on hard difficulty. Whatever, it gave me a hell of a challenge, just add some hints maybe, finding stuff out the hard way is sometimes a bit ... boring. Especially for the less patient members of humanity :) <- which i am not.
Postings may contain traces of sense.
The ministry of health warns:
Living is dangerous to your health and may finally result in death.
You are a Dwarvish Berserker: you're freaking crazy and enjoy it. (100% ...)

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Well, if you're playing the campaign for the first time, don't choose the hard difficulty. The effect of difficulty is much larger in this campaign than in many others because of the unusual features that some people can't get used to and some people can use in astoundingly creative ways. Hard difficulty was made for replay maniacs who know all useful spots and can combine items in ways that make their units unexpectedly powerful, so that they would have the challenge they needed.

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firefox
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by firefox »

bfw 1.11.16, LotI 3.1.5

i am at the beginning of chapter 3 and found 2 things that bother me:

1. i can recruit loyal elves for 10x gold as it should be, but i can also recruit normal loyalist units like in the chapter before.
was it intended to be like this?

2. i know that legacies are random and may more or less useful but stormrider go the legacy of light wich is
absolutely not useful at all: he is already lawful and illuminates is already part of his amla. i is a waste of xp.
i managed to changed the advancement before he gets the legacy by going back 2 turns, but now i only have his normal advancements. he does not get extra advancements like the liches, but he is a "hero", shouldn't he at least get a useful legacy?
may the source be with you
=(^.^)= nyan~

Konrad2
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Konrad2 »

@dugi
i have to say if the hard difficulty is only for those who combine all items perfectly, then you designed the difficulty wrong. its still possible to win with only using weapons and a stratgical mind.

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