Legend of the Invincibles

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Which of these units you find worth advancing and gearing heavily? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

Prophet
51
21%
Reaper
28
12%
Scythemaster
20
8%
Shadowalker
17
7%
Shadow Prince
19
8%
Siege Troll
11
5%
Sky Goblin
4
2%
Snow Hunter
20
8%
Soul Shooter
5
2%
Swordmaster
28
12%
Troll Boulderlobber
2
1%
Warlock
24
10%
Werewolf Rider
5
2%
Zombie Rider
7
3%
 
Total votes: 241

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 9 is out)

Post by Dugi »

Good to know, I will fix it.
Raijer
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 9 is out)

Post by Raijer »

Problem: Once i'm in uria's temple, getting enough kills for redeem 16 doesn't upgrade, the redeem level stays at 15 but it still asks which special avancement i want and the kill counter goes back to 0. Happened in "heart of steelhives". I'm on wesnoth 1.10.6 with a mac.
Here's the replay, it happens on turn 8 with efraim.
LotI2-Heart_of_Steelhive_revoir_la_partie.gz
(209.12 KiB) Downloaded 132 times
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 9 is out)

Post by Dugi »

You have reached the maximum level of redeem. After reaching it, you get additional advancement paths still, but the attack will not improve anymore. It works as intended.
Silux
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 9 is out)

Post by Silux »

Welcome Raijier!

This thread reached more than 100 pages!

I'm really up for greater gem drop rates as crafting is one of the main points of the campaign.
Maybe gems could be renamed after more common materials like wood, stone, bronze, leather, steel, gold, opal, ruby, emerald, diamond.
Designing new objects should be easier and would justify them to be more common or rare^^

What happens when i hit a unit with 1hp with redeem?It's killed from the damage or from the special?
Last edited by Silux on April 26th, 2013, 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 9 is out)

Post by Dugi »

The idea of crafting is that you use a commonly available item (because all units have a weapon and armour, these things should be common enough), and put some precious gems into it in order to add some magical properties to it. You just can't use wood and stone to create a better sword than a unit already has (and acquiring it required only some unimportant amount of gold, that should be more valuable than some stones anyway), it's rather meant to be like improving existing ones.
Btw, rubies and emeralds are normally more valuable than diamonds and bronze is more valuable than steel (because it contains a huge percentage of copper and steel is like 98% iron).

I think that your demand to increase the gems drops is supported by an argument valid enough to make me increase it.

Don't know what did you mean with 'Designing new objects should be easier and would justify them to be more common or rare'. Existing gems are approximately ordered by their rarity, and the cheap items are generally worse than the ones requiring rare gems.

If you use redeem on a unit with 1 hp (or on a unit with 2 hp whose resistance to arcane is less than -100% for some reasons): The unit takes 1 damage, its hp drops to 0. It will die, but before its death, the redeem function is triggered, that destroys the unit in the process. This means that your redeem count increases, and you gain no exp for it because the unit was destroyed before it died normally.
jeffgreen
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 9 is out)

Post by jeffgreen »

After Akula's Place, Armageddon and Epilogue,LOTI1 ends ands shows the credits I thought there used to be an option to continue.
Wesnoth 10.5, latest LOTI, Ubuntu.
Raijer
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 9 is out)

Post by Raijer »

Thanks a lot for the answer. Kinda annoys me though, since i wanted to destroy lvl 7 adjacent units. Out of that, does redeem inflict damage if it fails (when the attack hits, but it says "redeem failed") ?
Also, i was wondering, are plants supposed to be exp/redeem feed or it's just easy mode that does that ? Same thing for the drones, they're just weak, nothing like akula's.
Anywa, thanks for the amazing job, that campaign made me play wesnoth again even though i usually hate turn-based games.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

William Ernest Henley
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 9 is out)

Post by Dugi »

jeffgreen wrote:After Akula's Place, Armageddon and Epilogue,LOTI1 ends ands shows the credits I thought there used to be an option to continue.
Wesnoth 10.5, latest LOTI, Ubuntu.
It is intended to be impossible to continue from chapter 5 to chapter 6. There are some changes in the rules, storyline reasons for a reset and your army couldn't keep growing stronger, normal enemies would be no match for your highly advanced and well geared units.
It's quite awesome that LotI works also on wesnoth 10.5, when it was designed for 1.10.
Raijer wrote:Thanks a lot for the answer. Kinda annoys me though, since i wanted to destroy lvl 7 adjacent units.
If the maximum level was 16, it would annoy that you wouldn't be able to absorb level 8 units. Where did you encounter max redeem level limit, btw? There is no specific reason why it shouldn't be increased to 20.
Raijer wrote:Out of that, does redeem inflict damage if it fails (when the attack hits, but it says "redeem failed") ?
Yes, it does. It is an attack that does 1 damage in 1 attack, with a redeem weapon special, so if the weapon special fails, it still has 1 damage.
Raijer wrote:Also, i was wondering, are plants supposed to be exp/redeem feed or it's just easy mode that does that ? Same thing for the drones, they're just weak, nothing like akula's.
It's possible that the level of plants might have to be lower.
With redeem, it's quite a problem because there should be some kind of low level cannon fodder. If you use redeem on them, you get cheap redeem score, but it is needed for the case if your redeem level was neglected and you needed it, and by using redeem on cannon fodder will remove the advantage of redeeming something whose disappearance would actually help you to defeat the enemies.
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 9 is out)

Post by Silux »

@jeffgren
Happens also for me.Not bad as i was growing tired of carrying on millennia old liches:)

@dugi
i don't know exact rarity or price of gems and material:/
I was thinking crafting to make whole new pieces of equipment, just putting gems together(we are in a magical world anyway).
I'd have thought as an improvement if items would have names like "fire enchanted sword" or "dark infused bow".
About design of new objects i was thinking to a more traditional system where you craft the full weapon like:
-Bow of focus (2wood, 1iron, 1emerald)
-Rightful mace (3iron, 3stone, 3diamond)
-Warlord Crown (7iron, 3leather, 4ruby)

That's because it seemed really strange to me to use 6 or more gems to make a new object(a twinklier unit is more powerful?).

Current item are balanced enough for the costs and the benefits.
The only items i craft time to time are;
-Konrad's Might and Equality as weapons
-Lightning agility for the move points
-Deflector of light and Purity as the chaotic alignment is really useful in caves and improved light debuff greatly most of the enemies.
I craft these mainly because they have the best bonus/cost ratio and an almost complimentary gem cost.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

When crafting, you're adding magical properties to items, not creating the items themselves (swords, helmets and axes are widely available, you can recruit a unit using them at any time, or you are just putting them into the weapon of a unit). Enchanting these items requires some specific symbols, that have to have some special gems incorporated into them. Or it might be simply that magical power can be stored in precious gems much better than it can be stored in steel, so you need some gems to hold the enchantments (Eragon series' logic, but Eragon series' magic system was made up the best of all fantasy stuff I have ever seen).

LotI crafting was loosely based on Diablo II's crafting system, where you could insert a ruby into an item to add fire damage to it, a sapphire to add cold damage to it, and so on, and also you could insert some specific combination of runes (who had some small magic effect themselves) into items to create some specific effects (if you put runes hel, ohm, um, lo and cham into an axe, its damage and speed increased greatly, created a freezing aura, created volcanoes when you attacked and a few more things). I decided to use some kind of combination of this, and it makes an interesting and quite balanced feature.
Raijer
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 9 is out)

Post by Raijer »

Dugi wrote:If the maximum level was 16, it would annoy that you wouldn't be able to absorb level 8 units.
That's true... Well, i suppose i hoped it would increase infinitely, though now that i think about it, that would make it a little too powerful, maybe lvl 15 is good enough.
Dugi wrote:Where did you encounter max redeem level limit, btw?
I think i said it in my first post. In "heart of steelhives" but i could have done it earlier by exploring inferno a little more.
Dugi wrote:There is no specific reason why it shouldn't be increased to 20.
That seems hard to get... Will there be any really strong units in the next chapters ? (more lvl 18 or 25?)

Would there be any way to add special powers to already existing weapons with gems (since you spoke about diablo)? Like adding "hit and run" to one of the best swords, and not the cunctator's. Or maybe fuse 2 items using gems?


I really liked the end of chapter 9, but shouldn't the last scenario be made a lot harder ? Since some people do not need the help and can't really die fighting units that aren't incredibly strong.
Oh and also. I'm sorry for asking but... Do you have an idea of when chapter 10 will be finished ?
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

William Ernest Henley
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Raijer wrote:Would be awesome, but really hard to get. Will there be any really strong units in the next chapters ? (more lvl 18 or 25?)
Nope, they will not be stronger.
I really liked the end of chapter 9, but shouldn't the last scenario be made a lot harder ?
All the difficulty levels in chapter 9 were just a guess, I was already told to increase it, and I said I will. Anyway, the last scenario will just keep getting harder until one of your leaders die, but it seems that the final defeat will not come early enough.
Raijer wrote:Oh and also. I'm sorry for asking but... Do you have an idea of when chapter 10 will be finished ?
I am quite busy in these days, and is not very likely to change soon (I just check the forums regularly, but that does not mean I have a lot of time). Also, after the 50 scenarios of chapter 9, I am really fed up with writing scenarios and I will need some time before starting to write something again. Don't expect it before summer. And chapter 10 will be the final one.
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by gfgtdf »

i think i'd appreciate givng the nomral units more hitpoints and the heros less. Maybe only 2 per advancement for heros and 5 for normal units.
Dugi wrote:WML code doesn't support checkboxes :(
you sure? i think the wml dialogs are quiet powerful.
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

5 for normal units is too much in my opinion, 4 might be better. 2 for heroes does not look as a bad idea, because one of the AMLA paths they can obtain adds maximum hitpoints if they want more.

I am sure WML does not support checkboxes. You can have a list of options to select one from, you can have a box to write text into, but checkboxes are available only in GUIs (windows shown by the game, in fact). GUIs are written in WML, but they can't be used by WML because it lacks several vital functions to manipulate it. They are also severely bugged and nobody knows exactly how to use them. I know how to make it work in WML, but I don't want to use in my code something too alien and very hard to reuse (I change the size of a picture and it starts to crash, working with it is a terrible pain if you don't have experience with it, and it is a pain even if you have the experience), so it would just confuse people who are trying to learn something from the code like Silux.
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Silux »

i've read the code for the interface, but i dropped at editing it after some tries, as it's way more complex as it seems, and there are no comments.
Don't mind messing up with code, just put comments^^

I found myself to understand harder and more complex code, but now i don't have enough time to dive in.
The language i find more hard to understand is hardcore C, with lots of go-to and proxy pointers.
I've even hacked some assembly to get a driver working, but don't ask me to do it again...

Android crashes for really little, but GUI cod...
*reads the gui text for wesnoth*
AAAhaAhaA! get me out of there! this code is a wall of pointers!
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