After the Storm 0.9.17 [Wesnoth 1.12]

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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MalGalas
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Re: After the Storm 0.9.0 [Wesnoth 1.10.x/1.11.1] (complete!

Post by MalGalas »

Thanks. shadowmaster, where did u find inspiration for these 2 great campaigns? :P

Kiith-Sa
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Re: After the Storm 0.9.0 [Wesnoth 1.10.x/1.11.1] (complete!

Post by Kiith-Sa »

Played through the campaign to the end.

I consider this to be _the_ best Wesnoth campaign (better than any other unofficial
campaigns I played, or than


I like the change of style from IftU. The story/characters are much less simplistic and
gameplay seems to have been improved from the faults of IftU
(example; the ability to always recruit up to N units in the later RPG-style scenarios
compared to IftU where you had a fixed number of units and couldn't afford to lose
any of those. Doesn't make sense from the "realism" standpoint, but removes the
need for save-load.).

I actually consider the story to be among the best game stories I've seen
(certainly among the best strategy game stories). Sometimes it slightly
reminded me of Xenogears (is this just my imagination?). It feels like a
JRPG story without some of the mood-breaking crap common in
JRPGs/japanese stuff in general. I think it could make a base for a good
RPG (J or W, doesn't matter), and it feels like some of the levels are
going in that direction. It isn't without flaws, though
(e.g. the too-obvious use of the "we have you so we're gonna tell
you all our uber-secret plans before killing you" trope).

Also, I can't see how anyone would get the idea that the story is
concluded; the last missions were pretty much a big capital
"to be continued", and the epilogue might as well be called a prologue.
Obviously I hope you continue it some day (in whatever form),
although I can imagine you'd be burnt out after so many years working
on one project.

Didn't look for bugs/issues yet, so can't give much constructive criticism
right now. One thing that comes to my mind: in one of the Destiny scenarios,
after you capture the fortress and Shaxthal spawn on the Shaxthal hive terrain,
the Shaxthal attack seemed too easy to defend against. I've got the impression
that I was supposed to lose more units while conquering the fortress, but
from the start of the scenario I was almost equal unit-count wise with the enemies
due to gold carryover.

There were balancing issues elsewhere as well, can't remember right now, though.

Sorry for wall of text, going to sleep.

darkevilshamallow
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Re: After the Storm 0.9.0 [Wesnoth 1.10.x/1.11.1] (complete!

Post by darkevilshamallow »

Hi there,

I hope my english won't betray me :)

I had to register but i believe it's worth it ! I really wanted to say (a biiig) thank you for both AtS AND IftU.
Past saturday i saw the release of the last scenarii and i begun as soon as i saw them. It was a bit late so i had to stop but i HAD TO finish it on sunday, i really craved to know what would happen. And i kind of curse you because i clearly didn't see the hour running and i almost missed school... :)
Those campaigns were both different from one another and any other campaign i could have played before which is already a great point ! Well... both could have been unique in a bad way of course but it's not the case and to me you outdid yourself. You say you gave your all in AtS which i believe is true because i really felt you had a passion for this story while i was seeing it reveal itself before my eyes.

I loved all the characters who were all conceived in depth (i'm not if that turns about right in english :/), except maybe for both Ergea (which is not too bad since she's not that important) and Anya but that's maybe because they arrive a bit late compared to their importance (this is probably my fault though since i played both IftU and Ats in a very short amount of time). I'd also take a guess saying that Elynia was your favourite character, maybe i'm wrong but i feel like she was the character where you emphasized most of your interest in that story ; seeing how well you described it through her eyes feelings and emotions. At least i'm sure she was my favourite and it was a wise choice to tell the story through a subjective view to give it more colours (and what colours !!).

In the end i have to say that i wasn't playin' for the game anymore because i kinda rushed the "armies part" and focused on the "dungeons part" which were the moment when you fully unleashed you abilities through storytelling and artwork.

And what astonished me the most and probably supported your storytelling the most was not the game itself but in fact all of the artwork :

- music (omg)
- "painting" (tremendous)
- animations (awesome)
- i believe you get my point ...

That's why I also want to thank all those who helped you even for the "smallest" parts.

You can really be proud of what you did or at least i'd be if i were you ! I don't think i would have worked that hard for free and that's all to your honor (hope it turns right once more as i don't know another way to explain :/)

I'll probably stop there because "your ankles would inflate" (french expression to say that you'd probably boast a bit much after reading this :p)

If you ever do a sequel please feel free to say what medium you'll use as i do wish to know how it'd be :)

Once more but not once too many : thanks a lot.

I go check that last release you did right now !

EDIT : well that's just to say that i really liked the badass music in the epilogue !

Rhylla
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Re: After the Storm 0.9.0 [Wesnoth 1.10.x/1.11.1] (complete!

Post by Rhylla »

I just played through this campaign last week, and finished the epilogue today, and I must say that out of all the campaigns, both official and un-official, this is the best I have ever played, even better than IftU. I love this campaign so much, that I started playing not for the fun of building armies, but the fun of reading the story line. You have really done a good job on this, and even though you say it is not perfect, it is probably as close to perfect as a human could make it, and I love it just the same.

I think that, like I just said, you have done a great job on it, and thank you very much for making such a wonderful campaign. Though I must admit I almost broke my computer when you decided to kill off several of the characters,
Spoiler:
and they are supposed to have their loved ones and friends die, it make sense, and it helps to stress that point.

I love how all the characters talk, and I like how you made all these different characters for the two campaigns- Shaxthals, Demons, and then the heroes like Elyssa, Elynia, Galas, and Malin, and their pictures. Pretty much, I can find no fault with your campaign, and can only say I wish I had another one, that recounted everyone's adventures, and they finally settle down to an almost normal life then the End.

Putting all that aside, I must thank you one more time. Thank you so much for writing this campaign and going through the whole thing. I really appreciate it. I think now I'm going to go through IftU and AtS all over again and play them through again. :D

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WYRMY
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Re: After the Storm 0.9.0 [Wesnoth 1.10.x/1.11.1] (complete!

Post by WYRMY »

Ok just finished part 2, it was very good.

my 5 cents of suggestions

"to perfect" should be "too perfect" (The Betrayal)
the enemies in "And then there was chaos" act very suicidally and attack funny eg. suicide. Dunno if this was on purpose. (actually for me this was good because I was hugely outnumbered and otherwise would have died :P )
after fake LoL is defeated, on scen obj. still says defeat after 5 turns (The Betrayal)

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I love this campaign

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Iris
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Re: After the Storm 0.9.0 [Wesnoth 1.10.x/1.11.1] (complete!

Post by Iris »

Thanks for the feedback!

Now I’m going to address a few specific points.
Kiith-Sa wrote:[...] the story [...] Sometimes it slightly reminded me of Xenogears (is this just my imagination?) [...] It feels like a JRPG story without some of the mood-breaking crap common in JRPGs/japanese stuff in general.
I have never played Xenogears, or any other RPG-style games for that matter.
Kiith-Sa wrote:Didn't look for bugs/issues yet, so can't give much constructive criticism right now. One thing that comes to my mind: in one of the Destiny scenarios, after you capture the fortress and Shaxthal spawn on the Shaxthal hive terrain, the Shaxthal attack seemed too easy to defend against. I've got the impression that I was supposed to lose more units while conquering the fortress, but from the start of the scenario I was almost equal unit-count wise with the enemies due to gold carryover.
This is something that I need to balance further — which isn’t as hard as it sounds since the relevant code is built around a very simple pair of mathematical formulas. I kind of rushed testing of that scenario and forgot to adjust the parameters for the survival phase on Normal difficulty so they would differ from Easy. On Easy difficulty, though, it is more or less intentionally a cakewalk.
darkevilshamallow wrote:I loved all the characters who were all conceived in depth (i'm not if that turns about right in english :/), except maybe for both Ergea (which is not too bad since she's not that important) and Anya but that's maybe because they arrive a bit late compared to their importance (this is probably my fault though since i played both IftU and Ats in a very short amount of time)
Ergea is supposed to remain a mysterious character for the most part, and her intentionally minimal characterization is built around her actions and the description for her unit type in the help system. Some lines from Elynia in Divergence (E3S6) also serve as hints about her motives. I may add more lines about her (or from her) in a future release.

Anya’s characterization, on the other hand, is there, although it’s deliberately rushed because until Episode III Elynia does not trust her fully and does not allow her to interact with her enough. And since Elynia is our point-of-view character for most of the campaign...
darkevilshamallow wrote:I'd also take a guess saying that Elynia was your favourite character, maybe i'm wrong but i feel like she was the character where you emphasized most of your interest in that story ; seeing how well you described it through her eyes feelings and emotions. At least i'm sure she was my favourite and it was a wise choice to tell the story through a subjective view to give it more colours (and what colours !!).
Elynia is the hardest and most tedious character to write and I would have loved to kill her off in E2 and she’s certainly not my favorite character.

My favorite character actually is Igor from IftU. Whatever happened to that guy? Unlike Erathan, I don’t remember ever confirming or denying his death. Shouldn’t he be some kind of war hero by now? Maybe he could even get his own campaign!
Rhylla wrote:I love how all the characters talk, and I like how you made all these different characters for the two campaigns- Shaxthals, Demons, and then the heroes like Elyssa, Elynia, Galas, and Malin, and their pictures.
By pictures you mean their dialog portraits? Those are all carried over from IftU and made by kitty years ago (which is why every major AtS-specific character lacks portraits). Now if you mean their map sprites, yeah, I made those myself — except for Mal Keshar, of course, who looks like a generic Ancient Lich (for now).
WYRMY wrote:"to perfect" should be "too perfect" (The Betrayal)
The line in question:
???: What do you think of our first true infiltrator? She was incredibly hard to build, and to perfect.
Here I am using the verb “to perfect”, not the adjective “perfect”.

The line is awkward either way, so I will see what to do about it.
WYRMY wrote:the enemies in "And then there was chaos" act very suicidally and attack funny eg. suicide. Dunno if this was on purpose. (actually for me this was good because I was hugely outnumbered and otherwise would have died :P )
They are intended to be a tad suicidal, but they are also meant to pose a challenge to the player — the latter point is not the case at this time and this is yet another thing that needs to be fixed during the (0.9.0, 1.0.0] version interval.
WYRMY wrote:after fake LoL is defeated, on scen obj. still says defeat after 5 turns (The Betrayal)
Does this persist when you bring up the objectives screen manually again? I do see that the objectives are set before the turn limit is changed in the scenario code, but I don’t think this is supposed to make a difference in practice. What Wesnoth version are you using to play?
I’m going to take this opportunity to note that some cutscenes (in particular the one in the middle of E3S8A (Interim), and the Epilogue scenario) are subtly broken on Wesnoth 1.11.1+svn, and probably 1.11.1 as well. They work as intended for the most part, but certain (emulated) animations do not run correctly, only displaying their first ‘frame’ while other actions continue running. This problem does not occur on 1.10.x.
Technobabble:
EDIT: Confirmed that the bug in question does not affect 1.11.1.
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.

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vultraz
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Re: After the Storm 0.9.0 [Wesnoth 1.10.x/1.11.1] (complete!

Post by vultraz »

WYRMY wrote:"to perfect" should be "too perfect" (The Betrayal)
Actually, "to perfect" is correct, since in the sentence in question, "perfect" is being used in the sense of making her perfect (the verb) and not saying that she is perfect (the noun).

EDIT: ninja'd
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Re: After the Storm 0.9.0 [Wesnoth 1.10.x/1.11.1] (complete!

Post by Battlecruiser_Venca »

It is true, that in 1.11.1+svn in final cutscenes there sometimes happens a lag, where nothing happens at all

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Iris
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Re: After the Storm 0.9.0 [Wesnoth 1.10.x/1.11.1] (complete!

Post by Iris »

Battlecruiser_Venca wrote:It is true, that in 1.11.1+svn in final cutscenes there sometimes happens a lag, where nothing happens at all
This is not what I meant in my post. Some cutscenes have intentionally long delays interspersed and this is not a bug.

EDIT: edited the description of the actual bug above.
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.

Rhylla
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Re: After the Storm 0.9.0 [Wesnoth 1.10.x/1.11.1] (complete!

Post by Rhylla »

Yes, that is what I meant by saying that, I meant portraits. It's nice that you have someone to do them for you, as if I were to ever do a campaign, I wouldn't. :lol2: I noticed that Malin Keshar did look exactly like the normal Ancient Lich, and I was kind of wondering about that, because as all of your other heroes are different (Lady of Light, Sylvan Warden, Night Faerie, etc) except for Galas- well, I take that back. In IftU he was a normal character, but in AtS he was a custom unit, that somehow reminds me of Kaleh, I think that was the name of the leader of the Elves from Under the Burning Suns? Well, anyway, it reminded me of Kaleh, because both Galas and Kaleh can have upgraded abilities. Just a thought of mine :D

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WYRMY
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Re: After the Storm 0.9.0 [Wesnoth 1.10.x/1.11.1] (complete!

Post by WYRMY »

vultraz wrote:WYRMY wrote:
"to perfect" should be "too perfect" (The Betrayal)


Actually, "to perfect" is correct, since in the sentence in question, "perfect" is being used in the sense of making her perfect (the verb) and not saying that she is perfect (the noun).

EDIT: ninja'd
Haha looks like I read it to quickly and skimmed over the sentence.

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Teapot
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Re: After the Storm 0.9.0 [Wesnoth 1.10.x/1.11.1] (complete!

Post by Teapot »

Hello,

Ahrr, I wanted to give you critical feedback by reporting every encountered bug but it seems you had more reliable people available!

Well then again, before giving you precise feedback, AtS is a *very* nice campaign, probably the one I have longed so much for (the one for which I regularly update BtW, heh). So please do not say we were not demanding, it is probably just that we are too scared to give you feedback on the forum :mrgreen:

By the way, do you need some kind of help to make descriptions ?

Moving on, I played E3 S1--8D (stopped at the beginning of 8D so that you may get feedback earlier)

Spoiler:
Error 418

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Iris
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Re: After the Storm 0.9.0 [Wesnoth 1.10.x/1.11.1] (complete!

Post by Iris »

Teapot wrote:By the way, do you need some kind of help to make descriptions ?
I will deal with rewriting all (okay, most) unit type descriptions later when I feel like it, but thanks for the offer.

The “Invalid WML found” messages you found were fixed in 0.9.0, which is the current released version; then again:

Code: Select all

<WML> Error: [AtS] BUG: 1.11.x side persistence bug workaround data missing, scenario may not work as intended!
This suggests that you did not follow my instructions with regards to upgrading correctly. You need to replay E3S7B from the start of scenario save itself in order for the workaround code to be deployed.
Teapot wrote:Shapeshifters under cover are not blown up by exploding barrels.
Not a bug.
Teapot wrote:Dryads are totally broken in front of Forest Spirit. (resists and melee *much* better, and overmighty Sylvan spark for a 2-5 small ranged improvement). Balance please !
I am not sure how I am supposed to interpret this comment. What is broken and why, again?
Teapot wrote:Awesome art for Cron !!
Cron is a mainline unit with mainline sprites and a mainline portrait.
Spoiler:
I do not want to read about “missing portrait issues” in general unless you are certain than a portrait already exists — and for now, as I have said countless times, there are no portraits for any AtS-specific characters, and that will probably remain the case for a long amount of time. Really long, in fact.

Generic units generally get their portraits last and you shouldn’t count on those existing or not existing.
Teapot wrote:Missing portrait of Demon Zephir. Demon portrait should do nicely enough.
Now this one in particular does have a portrait that Sleepwalker hasn’t finished because—just like the other Demon line portraits—he was working on it on his free time without a commission. I am in no position to force him to continue working on that at this time given that he has a commission of his own to complete for mainline, and I cannot afford commissioning art for my own campaign, nor do I really look forward to working with external artists unless they have shown a genuine interest in the campaign before.
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.

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Re: After the Storm 0.9.0 [Wesnoth 1.10.x/1.11.1] (complete!

Post by bumbadadabum »

Teapot wrote: Dryads are totally broken in front of Forest Spirit. (resists and melee *much* better, and overmighty Sylvan spark for a 2-5 small ranged improvement). Balance please !
I don't think it's that broken. I usually choose Dryad for the extra 17(!) ranged damage. Sure, Sylvan Spark is nice to have, but I find the unit pretty weak.

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Re: After the Storm 0.9.0 [Wesnoth 1.10.x/1.11.1] (complete!

Post by Iris »

bumbadadabum wrote:I don't think it's that broken. I usually choose Dryad for the extra 17(!) ranged damage. Sure, Sylvan Spark is nice to have, but I find the unit pretty weak.
I find that having a resilient Forest Spirit around is extremely useful when dealing with shaxthal units, since they are have better resistance to impact attacks and are immune to poison.
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.

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