Invasion from the Unknown (1.80.2) for Wesnoth 1.8

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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StandYourGround
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown (1.70.2) for Wesnoth 1.7/1.8 ONLY

Post by StandYourGround »

Don't know if it's a bug, but the troll and drake I freed at the first scenario in the Dark Hive did not come with me for the rest.
I will now resume lurking silently.
pilpilon
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown (1.70.2) for Wesnoth 1.7/1.8 ONLY

Post by pilpilon »

shadowmaster wrote:It's a feature IMHO. I could make the script give the ring to any unit if they haven't picked it up before turns run out, but then the player might not be happy that they weren't given a choice.

On the other hand, I could make the scenario last indefinitely until the ring is picked up (meanwhile, the player cannot use or receive gold/income), but the time of day sequence would continue... and the result would look rather awkward.
In that case I think the simplest fix would be to add to Scenario Objectives, something like, "Pick up the ring Rebel Leader Left you"
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StandYourGround
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown (1.70.2) for Wesnoth 1.7/1.8 ONLY

Post by StandYourGround »

After a crushing defeat somewhere deep in the dark hive, I've recently decided to give IFtU another go. I'm paying a lot more attention to strategy (particularly in gold conservation), and I noticed an interesting thing about the AI teams with the Chaos faction. They recruit based on my initial recruits, and I can thus determine how easy/hard a scenario will be based on my initial recruit.

A perfect example is the first scenario. In my first attempt, I recruited 2 Hunters, A Fighter, an Archer, a Scout, and a Shaman. Fairly balanced, 3 units with proficiency in Melee, 2 in Ranged, and one healer (the Hunters are good enough to count for Ranged proficient as well, as their slow attack really helps soften the Invaders). In response, both Chaos teams spammed Chaos Invokers, with about 1 melee unit for every 5 Invokers. I formed defense lines with terrain advantages, and let them come. I couldn't even finish off the first few quick units before the horde arrived, because I had a curious problem with being able to land a killing blow on an Invoker. I could cut it down to the red, but then simply run out of hexes to land a killing blow from. I lost about 4 units for every unit I killed.

So I started over. This time, I recruited 4 Archers and 2 Shamans as my initial recruit. Voila! Both Chaos teams responded by primarily recruiting melee units, with only about 2 or 3 Invokers total from each team in the advancing horde. The result was a complete opposite of my last try, even though my final army and tactics were pretty much the same. The melee units dropped like flies to my arrows, and the smaller number of Invokers was easy to handle. I killed about 9 or 10 units for every elf I lost (3 total). Quite a difference. The key was my initial recruit. Recruit balanced, and the enemy spams a unit that is a pushover alone, but overpowering in a group. Spam archers, and the enemy plays into my hands. I don't know what can be done to balance the Chaos faction better, as it really is fairly balanced when the recruiting plays out well.
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DarkApple
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown (1.70.2) for Wesnoth 1.7/1.8 ONLY

Post by DarkApple »

There are 2 issues I have with the campaign so far.

1) Elvish hunters aren't well balanced against elvish fighters. There is too little motivation to use elvish fighters. Their melee attacks are identical. They both have a ranged attack that does 'a relatively small amount of damage' the difference isn't all that relevant (therefore, by the same token, are less effected by unit resistances). However, the slow effect the hunters have is very significant in comparison. Significant enough that 4 less hp and 2 extra gold cost is ignorable. Oh yeah, and on top of that the hunters can use sand/hills effectively, and have 1 extra movement.

I propose 2 different solutions.
a) Reduce hunter melee damage from 5-4 to 4-4. This keeps fighters still useful for being the best melee hitters.
b) Reduce hunter ranged damage from 4-2 to 2-2, and some other light nerf (I'm thinking either in the hp or movement speed or maybe in the terrain department.) This leaves fighters useful for being a melee unit that can cause a reasonable amount of ranged damage (particularly against those that are pierce weak), plus being a better tank.

Addendum: Yes, I do realize that even in the current state, fighters are still useful for their promotions.

2) The original human units used by Chaos are still Lawful? That's just crazy.

Edit: Just the tiniest nitpick that I felt I might as well put out there, too. Woohoo typos/misspellings! A correction the Demon/demoness unit description, "...a separate plane, WHERE they would be..."
Sandermatt
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown (1.70.2) for Wesnoth 1.7/1.8 ONLY

Post by Sandermatt »

I have played this campaign some time ago. I wanted to try it again, and wonder why some units like the elvish protector or the second scout advancment were removed.
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Jetrel
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown (1.70.2) for Wesnoth 1.7/1.8 ONLY

Post by Jetrel »

DarkApple wrote:1) Elvish hunters aren't well balanced against elvish fighters. There is too little motivation to use elvish fighters. Their melee attacks are identical. They both have a ranged attack that does 'a relatively small amount of damage' the difference isn't all that relevant (therefore, by the same token, are less effected by unit resistances). However, the slow effect the hunters have is very significant in comparison. Significant enough that 4 less hp and 2 extra gold cost is ignorable. Oh yeah, and on top of that the hunters can use sand/hills effectively, and have 1 extra movement.
Elvish hunters were a [censored] unit addition in UtBS for precisely that reason. They overlap not just with the fighter, but also with the shaman. Frankly, though, the guy who originally wrote UtBS was a complete [censored], so that's not surprising.

A better unit design would be an elven spearman, with better defense of some kind, but no ranged attack. Perhaps for interest, it could be unusually good at defending on open ground; or maybe it could just have better resistances. Who knows.

That's just an off-the-cuff suggestion, but it's kinda painful to see that mistake imitated by a different campaign.
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silent
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown (1.70.2) for Wesnoth 1.7/1.8 ONLY

Post by silent »

probably a moot point given in the later stages only the slyph, and maybe the marshal, before the final few scenarios, are of any notable use vs the chaos hordes, under the assumption you actually level certain aragwaithi.
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown (1.70.2) for Wesnoth 1.7/1.8 ONLY

Post by Iris »

Just passing by to announce that I've finally decided to drop maintenance of this campaign for an undefined amount of time. With luck I may get Espreon to help me with a last release.
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm (now available for Wesnoth 1.14.x and 1.15.4+).
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SouthernOracle
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown (1.80.0.1) for Wesnoth 1.8

Post by SouthernOracle »

I'm sorry to hear about your plans, but I understand this decision. I haven't really looked around these forums for awhile, being so busy as well in my personal life. However, I just learned of the new stable release for Wesnoth and seeing your campaign in the iphone version was pretty cool. I'm sorry as well that I never finished that assignment you gave me, but my many attempts weren't satisfactory to my expectations. That being said, if you need any help with editing/proofreading for AtS I humbly offer my assistance. Sending me a PM would probably be the fastest way of letting me know, as I don't cruise all of the threads like I used to.

Lastly, thank you for an awesome epic campaign (I don't think I ever said that).
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sur.nhm
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown (1.70.2) for Wesnoth 1.7/1.8 ONLY

Post by sur.nhm »

shadowmaster wrote:Just passing by to announce that I've finally decided to drop maintenance of this campaign for an undefined amount of time. With luck I may get Espreon to help me with a last release.
Does anybody else maintain this? I have recently started to translate it to Hebrew and would like to see it get committed.
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Lord-Knightmare
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown (1.80.0.1) for Wesnoth 1.8

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

StandYourGround wrote:Don't know if it's a bug, but the troll and drake I freed at the first scenario in the Dark Hive did not come with me for the rest.
Hey, I also encountered the same problem. It should be fixed. A troll warrior (chaotic unit) would be really helpful in later scenarios. And A scout (Hurricane Drake) would also be helpful.
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masterofmind
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown (1.80.0.1) for Wesnoth 1.8

Post by masterofmind »

Hi I am New to the forums I heard IFTU has 2 parts, is that true?
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Iris
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown (1.80.0.1) for Wesnoth 1.8

Post by Iris »

Yes, it has two episodes. They can be played separately, or in a row (preserving the recall list and character stats).
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm (now available for Wesnoth 1.14.x and 1.15.4+).
Wyrm
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown (1.80.0.1) for Wesnoth 1.8

Post by Wyrm »

Well, I got to the 3rd mission, the first cave mission, and a glitch came up. I was going through the dungeon, got the the end, lead the boss off his platform and hoped to kill him in one round before he could do much damage. (Normally I stray away from mindless details, but who knows, it might be a random occurrence that only happens when this chain of events happens.) I got behind him with a Hunter to slow him, hit him with Anlinde, then brought in a Hero that had Holy Water equipped. The Hero dealt the final blow, and a Ranger just appeared right next to him, then the game closed itself. No error message, nothing, just closed. I did it 3 more times, and it did the same thing each time.

I'm running Mac OS, and Wesnoth 1.8.5. I've been sticking to main campaigns, and this is my second add-on. THe first was Brotherhood of Wesnoth, which gave me an error message after completing the first mission, and would not let me proceed. Is there just a generic problem which add-ons and Macs? Help?
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Kapoue_II
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown (1.80.0.1) for Wesnoth 1.8

Post by Kapoue_II »

No,wesnoth on mac works beutifully (i have one). My guess is that you downloaded 2 buggy add-ons. Try a gryphons tale-its a campaign that i downloaded for my mac, it worked perfectly, and i liked it enough that i took over control of it (note that i havn't changed anything yet)
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