1.8 SP Campaign: Bad Moon Rising 1.0.4

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pixnaps
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Re: 1.8 SP Campaign: Bad Moon Rising 0.9.6

Post by pixnaps »

Raenna's death causes defeat, even though this isn't listed in the scenario information. (Noticed on 'Camp'.)

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doofus-01
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Re: 1.8 SP Campaign: Bad Moon Rising 0.9.6

Post by doofus-01 »

Will fix. Thanks.
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gabba
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Re: 1.8 SP Campaign: Bad Moon Rising 0.9.6

Post by gabba »

Um, I thought this would be a known bug, but I don't see it reported anywhere.
The problem happens in BMR II, in the scenario when you fight in the forest and try to prevent the enemy from reaching your base camp, and the battlefield is separated by a North-South river.

The AI takes litteraly an INSANE amount of time to play its turn: I've counted up to 15 min per turn, with the moves slowly trickling in. I've played a lot of Wesnoth scenarios and campaigns, and I've never seen that. It was with a recent svn version, so the cause could be an engine bug, but it's still worth checking.
I was playing wesnoth under Ubuntu Karmic 64 bits, in case you'd like to know. And all other BMR I and II scenarios up to this one worked fine, this was my first problem with the campaign.

edit: spelling
Last edited by gabba on March 27th, 2010, 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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doofus-01
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Re: 1.8 SP Campaign: Bad Moon Rising 0.9.6

Post by doofus-01 »

gabba wrote:The AI takes litteraly an INSANE amount of time to play its turn: I've counted up to 15 min per turn, with the moves slowly trickling in. I've played a lot of Wesnoth scenarios and campaigns, and I've never seen than.
That certainly was not the case when I last checked (not that recent, maybe 1.7.7). There is nothing particularly special about the AI in that scenario, so if there is something wrong with the [ai] stuff below, more scenarios will have the same problem. But I haven't seen it yet.

I don't use svn, so something could have been changed recently. Thanks for letting me know.

Code: Select all

	
# cut & paste from 1st AI side
        [ai]
	aggression=0.6
	caution=0.8
	grouping=offensive
#        recruitment_pattern=fighter,archer,scout
	[protect_location]
	x=53-65
	y=10-30
	value=100
	[/protect_location]	
	[/ai]

# cut & paste from 2nd AI side

	[ai]
	aggression=0.7
	caution=0.5
	grouping=offensive
	village_value=0
	[protect_location]
	x=44-65
	y=4-30
	value=900
	[/protect_location]	
	[/ai]
EDIT: I just checked the change-logs and see mention of changes to [protect_location] in 1.7.13 and 1.7.14, so if that has anything to do do with it I should be able to reproduce it.
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pixnaps
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Re: 1.8 SP Campaign: Bad Moon Rising 0.9.6

Post by pixnaps »

I can confirm that AI turns on 'Camp' scenario are noticeably slow on 1.7.14 too (though nothing as extreme as gabba reports -- my waits were like a minute or two -- still much worse than most scenarios though).

adm
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Re: 1.8 SP Campaign: Bad Moon Rising 0.9.6

Post by adm »

I found 2 skirmish bugs

1. If you kill the enemy leader while there are still units left on the map and these units escape then the skirmish never ends.

2. Let's say you start the skirmish with Reanna and you recall Duval and Duval gets killed then the game isn't over even though
the campaign actually can't continue without him. that also works the other way around.

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doofus-01
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Re: 1.8 SP Campaign: Bad Moon Rising 0.9.6

Post by doofus-01 »

adm wrote:I found 2 skirmish bugs
Thanks for catching those.
pixnaps wrote:I can confirm that AI turns on 'Camp' scenario are noticeably slow on 1.7.14 too (though nothing as extreme as gabba reports -- my waits were like a minute or two -- still much worse than most scenarios though).
I think there is some delay as the units move around in the fog, but I did not notice anything unusual. I didn't play very many turns though.

In any case, it looks like the ai will need to updated, so I will get that started next time. Hopefully that fixes it.
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Re: 1.8 SP Campaign: Bad Moon Rising 0.9.6

Post by doofus-01 »

0.9.7 just went to the server. The biggest changes are to the skirmish scenarios. I think the bugs noted just above are fixed. I am also trying to scale the enemy strength differently, so that it is a function of your gold amount, how many upper level units are on your recall list, and how many skirmishes you have fought in a given section. It is not fully implemented, except for the first worldmap section of Part II.

I made a lot of bugs in the process, but I think I caught them. If anyone finds one, please let me know. You will need to use the latest Archaic Era version (also uploaded today).
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adm
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Re: 1.8 SP Campaign: Bad Moon Rising 0.9.7

Post by adm »

The amount of gold you have if you're not in a skirmish you mean?


Not related to my question above. i played "Old Guardian" not long ago. Is it necessary to kill both enemy leaders? I killed both just to be save but it would have been possible to ignore Skurrior.

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Re: 1.8 SP Campaign: Bad Moon Rising 0.9.7

Post by doofus-01 »

adm wrote:The amount of gold you have if you're not in a skirmish you mean?
Right.
adm wrote:Is it necessary to kill both enemy leaders? I killed both just to be save but it would have been possible to ignore Skurrior.
You need to kill him to get the other guy to show up. I did that so the ghosts would attack by the chasm. I didn't think it was possible to ignore him.
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adm
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Re: 1.8 SP Campaign: Bad Moon Rising 0.9.7

Post by adm »

Are you sure that this is a good idea ? Let's say you actually have 1000 gold. With this amount of gold you could most likely recall all your strong units. But with 80 gold from the skirmish you can only recall up to 4 units. Wouldn't that result in an enemy force that is way too strong ?


Well i couldn't ignore his skeletons but i could have moved on without killing Skurrior himself. I think updating the scenario objectives when you discover him wouldn't hurt.
Also what about a keep halfway through the map ? If i wouldn't have had serveral healers with me then i'm not sure how many of my units would have survived.

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Re: 1.8 SP Campaign: Bad Moon Rising 0.9.7

Post by doofus-01 »

adm wrote:Are you sure that this is a good idea ?
Yes, it's a great idea! But you're right, the player could get screwed with only 80 gold. So 0.9.8 went to the server. It has what I think is a fix for this: You can only recruit one of each type from the recruit list, and you can recall as much as you want but it gets more expensive each time. How much more expensive depends upon the amount of gold you had going into the skirmish. The reward is also a randomized amount now, not fixed 85g. I plan to replace the recruit cap with an increase in recruitment cost, similar to what happens in some UtBS scenarios. But I don't like the method used in UtBS, and suspect there is a better way though I don't know how to do it just yet.

The arithmetic may need to be altered on all of this, but I think the basic idea is sound. The recall penalty is not in effect for the ghost attacks on the road, only the off-road stuff. There was a bug in 0.9.7 that could sometimes cause the game to quit when the ghosts attacked, but that is now fixed.
adm wrote: Well i couldn't ignore his skeletons but i could have moved on without killing Skurrior himself. I think updating the scenario objectives when you discover him wouldn't hurt.
Also what about a keep halfway through the map ? If i wouldn't have had serveral healers with me then i'm not sure how many of my units would have survived.
Skurrior's keep is sort of mid-way, at least closer than the starting keep. I guess I could put a gate between him and the chasm area, so that you are forced to kill him and put someone on his keep to proceed.
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adm
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Re: 1.8 SP Campaign: Bad Moon Rising 0.9.8

Post by adm »

Let's assume you've lost most of your units after the fight with the ghosts and the skeletal dragon, then i don't think that there is enough time to go back to the keep and recruit new units. It wasn't so much about forcing the player to kill Skurrior.

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Re: 1.8 SP Campaign: Bad Moon Rising 0.9.8

Post by hagabaka »

I played some scenarios a second time and found a problem. In "Rescue", I killed both enemy leaders before they explored the villages, so Raenna and her archers did not show up, although the "You are Raenna, right? ..." dialog still pops up. In the next scenario, I don't have Raenna as a accompanying hero or in the recall list :(

Also in "Camp", am I supposed to run my units to the bridge before the thieves? It doesn't seem doable...
My favorite addon campaigns (made by others): Swamplings | Galuldur's First Journey | To Lands Unknown | The Devil's Flute

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Re: 1.8 SP Campaign: Bad Moon Rising 0.9.8

Post by doofus-01 »

hagabaka wrote:In "Rescue", I killed both enemy leaders before they explored the villages, so Raenna and her archers did not show up, although the "You are Raenna, right? ..." dialog still pops up. In the next scenario, I don't have Raenna as a accompanying hero or in the recall list :(
I'll look at it again.
hagabaka wrote:Also in "Camp", am I supposed to run my units to the bridge before the thieves? It doesn't seem doable...
You should be able to get runners and dogs to the river quickly enough, giving slower units some time to get there. Remember that runners and dogs are better on frozen terrain than are the outlaws. I wouldn't go too much further without Raenna though, the campaign will not work very well.
adm wrote:Let's assume you've lost most of your units after the fight with the ghosts and the skeletal dragon, then i don't think that there is enough time to go back to the keep and recruit new units.
OK, maybe a small keep near the top of the chasm for easy & normal. I'll look at it again.
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