The Earth's Gut for BfW 1.16

[Anonymissimus]

uploaded 0.0.6
Scenario 16 is now free for the player. You need to board ships to cross the great river.

[zaimoni]

I don't think this bug can be tripped by normal play even on Easy:

In Unknown Tunnels, if Clarissa kills her first undead after its side's leader is killed, the game hangs somewhere in the unshroud macro for the leader. (It's theoretically possible, but I don't think any rational player playing fair would risk splatting a Steelclad without adequate backup.)

[Anonymissimus]

Wow, thanks a lot for reporting this bug. Fixed.

This is very interesting. It seems that

Code: Select all

	[store_locations]
		variable=...
		x=$null
		y=$null
		radius=1
	[/store_locations]

hangs, then. It seems I was assuming it'll simply return an empty array. So one could also consider this an engine bug.
Btw, has [remove_shroud] been fixed ? When I wrote that macro it did only accept coordinate ranges, not a SLF.
The changelog claimes it has been fixed in 1.5.8 which was uploaded at sourceforge Sun Jan 18 2009, but there was some thread last spring with some developer looking at the source and stating that remove_shroud only takes coordinate ranges...

/edit
yes, finally found the thread, the developer was shadowmaster:
http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... ud&start=0

[zaimoni]

Looking through the WML a bit (have not played this campaign properly yet):

You're managed to create a campaign that plays very differently on Easy, Medium, and Hard: thanks. I won't be able to judge balance as I'm not a good player.

[Anonymissimus]

I won't be able to judge balance as I'm not a good player.

Being a good player should not be a prerequisite to judge balance. Play on easy then, and tell if you find it managable (or too easy). Someone who can read the code is usually already a good player anyway.

[zaimoni]

Ok...now that I actually see what the unit distribution is on Easy when playing correctly:
* The scenarios though "The Great Gates" appear to be winnable while denying significant chance-to-kill (Path taken is "Unknown Tunnels"; "Up The Mountain" was won by obliterating both opponents from the map.) "The Bridge is Broken" -- not sure yet.
* The recall list indicates I overrecruited in "Up The Mountain" by a couple of turns (I naively recruit until I run out of gold)
* As a matter of efficiency, Hamel should be trending south-ish in "Unknown Tunnels" from the main hall. When the earthquake event fails to open the passage from the north, the time cost is impressive. (It used to, but apparently the scenario is so complex that fixing Clarissa's speech took out the earthquake's benefits.)
* It matters who has the regeneration ring.

Spoiler:

First, the ring gives a free recall if it's not on a wrong person in "Unknown Tunnels".

Second, Hamel has a much easier time in the later missions if he has the regeneration ring.

* "Under pressure" is missing foreshadowing. There is no in-scenario explanation of which hallways have which kind of threat, and misallocating forces will cause noticeable casualties.

Spoiler:

As in: savescumming won't prevent them.

North: regenerators (due to the poisoning undead)
West: Guardsmen line backed by proper healing; only side suitable for training first-level units.
East: Dwarvish Lords screen Steelclads, backed by proper healing.
South: clear.

[Anonymissimus]

* The scenarios though "The Great Gates" appear to be winnable while denying significant chance-to-kill (Path taken is "Unknown Tunnels"; "Up The Mountain" was won by obliterating both opponents from the map.)

What do you mean ? "Unknown Tunnels" is meant to be harder, because getting there is easier - you don't need to kill or pay the yeti in the previous scenario.

* As a matter of efficiency, Hamel should be trending south-ish in "Unknown Tunnels" from the main hall. When the earthquake event fails to open the passage from the north, the time cost is impressive. (It used to, but apparently the scenario is so complex that fixing Clarissa's speech took out the earthquake's benefits.)

I'm afraid you got it completely wrong. The three things - Clarissa's speech, the earthquake and the position of the exit - have nothing to do with each other. The position of the exit (north/south) is determined at scenario start. When moving a unit near the northern or southern exit of the central hall, you get a hint where it is. It should be highly unlikely to miss this hint when playing normally.

* "Under pressure" is missing foreshadowing. There is no in-scenario explanation of which hallways have which kind of threat, and misallocating forces will cause noticeable casualties.

Umm, yes, that's probably right. But I can't think of a sensible reason why the heros should know where which enemies are at the moment.

[zaimoni]

What do you mean ? "Unknown Tunnels" is meant to be harder, because getting there is easier - you don't need to kill or pay the yeti in the previous scenario.

Empirical maximum number of lost units on Easy, with the gold bonus for clearing both leaders, for "Unknown Tunnels" is three: one from the assault on Mal_Ashfahl, one from the assault on Mal Fanal, the other from taking the main hallway. Other than that maintaining 0% chance to kill is feasible on Easy for this.

I also risked losing two fighters in "Towards the West Gate", but the chance-to-kill on those was under 2% each time.

I'm afraid you got it completely wrong. ... It should be highly unlikely to miss this hint when playing normally.

I've never missed the hints, but also never guessed the hints were anything more than flavor text (without reading the WML carefully). They're logical enough, however.

[zaimoni]

More commentary on Easy:
* "Bridge is Broken": casualties on the trap guard assault appears to be 0-2.

Spoiler:

Inspecting the WML indicates that I only tested the right-hand Saurian path.[/spolier]
* "Lost": No real difficulties completing.
* "Unusual Allies": total casualties seems to be 2-5 (2-3 for the Rocklobber assault, 0-2 for the Nightmare assault). Krolck's forces disposed of Reck before I could get there.
* "Old Friends": not sure about expected casualty range.
* "Council": no comment (I do hope that when the campaign is fleshed out properly that this will be an interesting choice as well as an in-character scene)
* "Under Pressure": My naive playstyle caught up with me: the trolls are XP-deficient. I also botched eastern recall choice on turn 1, but that doesn't bother me as much.

[Anonymissimus]

I've uploaded the campaign to the 1.8 server. I need to playtest it now but it'll take a while so it's up now anyway since wmllint and all scenario loadings are ok. Hope that everything works.

some changes I remember
-all woses have traits
-StandYourGround's names and texts for the healer line have been worked in. Old savefiles should be compatible.

@StandYourGround
Would you mind to write some texts in the same way for the dwarf leader line, please ? I feel that it needs this, too. It is meant to be a unique unit and will stay, so you can personalize this for Hamel.

I leave the 1.6 version up for now, but unless severe bugs in the 1.8 engine are revealed I will no longer maintain it.

[StandYourGround]

BOOYAH, my first commit! That makes me so happy.

Sure, I'll write up something for the Dwarf Leader line. Should it be general (Hamel is unique, but perhaps not the only of his type), or should it mention Hamel by name as a legend-in-his-own-time?

[Anonymissimus]

Should it be general (Hamel is unique, but perhaps not the only of his type), or should it mention Hamel by name as a legend-in-his-own-time?

I'm not sure...Hamel appears in Northern Rebirth as a normal Dwarf Lord after the time of this campaign, so to be consistent we should probably not make him too "unique"...

[Turuk]

The campaign is not bad, some of the maps are interesting, but you may want to see if you can find someone to proofread and upgrade your story text, as well as the dialogue. It would help make the story more convincing.

[StandYourGround]

Anonymissius, I will have some unit descriptions for you soon. Will you mind if I make changes to unit names as I did with the healer line? I'm thinking of ideas for a more distinct naming convention for the advanced dwarf line then just Advanced Dwarvish Fighter, etc.

In the mean time, I took a whack at editing the scenario text of the first story section and dialogue campaign. I did expand the storyline segment a bit, to flesh it out better and not make it feel rushed. Is this is an improvement, and should I perhaps continue rewriting before I tackle the leader unit line?

"The Old Home" rewrite

--

I just rewrote "Towards the West Gate" as well...

"Towards the West Gate" rewrite

[Turuk]

"The Old Home" rewrite

--

I just rewrote "Towards the West Gate" as well...

"Towards the West Gate" rewrite

Definitely an improvement, but you might want to run a spellcheck over that text.