The Earth's Gut for BfW 1.16

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Re: The Earth's Gut for BfW 1.11/1.12

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

Continuation of my play through of The Earth's Gut.
Scenario 6
  • Had to reload from start as I screwed up the first time.
  • I. Hate. Bats.
  • Getting through the "red" cave portion was a joke. Drakes were butchered and milked for XP
  • The Lich sure loved spamming Wraiths.
  • TEG-The bridge is broken replay.gz
    (55.64 KiB) Downloaded 222 times
Scenario 7
  • The loyal Ulfserker is very overpowered but I guess having one did make the scenario a lot easier
  • The loyal troll was attacking undead even when he was incarcerated in the cage. Rather nonsensical.
  • TEG-Lost replay.gz
    (45.13 KiB) Downloaded 215 times
scenario 8
  • The Side 5 undead leader starts by yelling "Death to the Living", and yet...he has Dark Adepts (living humans) as recruits.
  • It is very nonsensical that the undead and rebel trolls are allied to one side.
  • The wolf riders are fine, but they do little against trolls. Almost free XP
  • Side 4 ally stole most of my kills :(
  • TEG-Unusual allies replay.gz
    (52.7 KiB) Downloaded 220 times
Scenario 9
  • Forcing me to choose which recalls I want to take? Harsh.
  • Why can't I have a third Troll Whelp? :(
  • Took 1x Troll, 1x Troll Whelp and 3x Troll Mystic (or that level 1 shaman, whatever it was called)
Scenario 10
  • Scenario's map generator is broken.
  • Why are the orcs and goblins here? Makes no sense.
  • Goblins in caves sound believable but orcs? Nope.
  • Trolls and Undead castles spawned right next to Hamel's castle.
  • Cannot win scenario. Broken.
  • Makes zero sense why undead and trolls are allied to each other.
  • Screenshot 2020-12-17 at 01.25.21.png
  • Screenshot 2020-12-17 at 01.24.23.png
    TEG-Old friends.gz
    (19.64 KiB) Downloaded 213 times
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Re: The Earth's Gut for BfW 1.11/1.12

Post by egallager »

Lord-Knightmare wrote: December 16th, 2020, 1:20 am It is I.
Playing on Normal difficulty. Wesnoth 1.14.14 (Mac OS X)
Intro Cutscene
This could be made more appealing by utilising theme=Cutscene_Minimal
This still uses the old map from 1.10/1.12. Maybe change that for the new one (like the one on the main menu)?
The scenario names could be...more conventional (maybe like: Towards the West Gate)
Intro Cutscene
  1. Where does that theme= key go, just in the top level scenario tag?
  2. I dunno, I kinda like the old map better, tbh... it was easier to read
  3. Yeah capitalization was a consistent issue throughout this campaign; I tried to fix some of the miscapitalizations I noticed, but apparently some slipped thru... I guess I'll have to make another pass at it...
Scenario 1
  • No Dwarven Scouts as recruits :(
  • I exploited those patches of lit hexes and butchered the orcs.
  • Hamel with Level 1 leadership is useless. Level 2 Hamel is cool.
  • Replay: TEG-Towards the west gate replay.gz
Scenario 1
Yeah sorry about no scouts at this point; I think they became recruitable at some later point, though?
Edit: yeah, you get scouts in Scenario 4, "Up The Mountain"
Scenario 2
  • Chose to continue my slaughtering and subjugation of the Orcish race
  • Thank you for the loyal mage but I am skeptical why she was kept a prisoner rather than killed off.
  • Gave ring to Hamel (obvious choice)
  • The 'Usual Monster"? Killed my immersive mode.
  • replay: TEG-Breakthrough replay.gz
Scenario 2
  1. Yeah I dunno why the mage was kept prisoner, either, but whatever
  2. Heh, it's not like it matters much who gets the ring at this stage, anyways...
  3. It's a Wesnoth campaign! But yeah the monster came named like that; I think a little bit of fourth-wall breaking is okay
Scenario 3
  • Didn't give away my gold. That yeti can kiss my axe! (and he did)
  • Took northern path but milked the bandits for XP
  • TEG-Up the mountain replay.gz
Scenario 4 - Blowing Snow
  • Scenario difficulty is amazingly poor. On Normal.
  • Mobs presented no challenge at all
  • The thing with Dulatus disappearing was rather...weird. How does a Dwarven Sentinel with 4 MP standing near the Direwolf leader's castle get all the way near the chasm in a fraction of a section? It's very silly.
  • TEG-Blowing snow replay.gz
Scenario 4
  1. The other scenario at this branching path is a bit harder if you wanted to try that one instead (I think you might have needed to pay the yeti in the previous scenario to be given the choice to take that one instead though)... also you can try playing on HARD as well. If it's still too easy for you on HARD then maybe I'll consider making it harder, not until then, though.
  2. Yeah I don't get the Dulatus thing, either; I want to come up with some way to improve it, but I'm not quite sure how...
Scenario 5
  • This one gave me some trouble as I had less units available for recall.
  • Those spiders were very pesky.
  • TC of Ice Troll unit is broken.
  • team_names for the enemy sides are all cave_occupants
  • TEG-The great gates replay.gz
Scenario 5
  1. Yeah spiders are kinda annoying, I agree. Edit: would lowering the cap on them set under {TEG_LIMIT_CONTEMPORANEOUS_RECRUITS_DIFFICULTY_DEPENDANT} be a good enough fix for their annoyingness?
  2. "TC"? Sorry, forgetting my acronyms here... Edit: right, "Team Color"... what's it supposed to be again?
  3. What would you suggest doing with the team_names instead? I'm open to changing how they display, I'm not quite sure if I want to actually change the team groupings in terms of gameplay, though (i.e. making the enemies fight each other), as that might unbalance things...
I shall respond again once I have played a few more scenarios. Nice to see TEG is back.
Last edited by egallager on December 20th, 2020, 2:23 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Earth's Gut for BfW 1.11/1.12

Post by egallager »

Lord-Knightmare wrote: December 16th, 2020, 7:38 pm Continuation of my play through of The Earth's Gut.
Scenario 6
  • Had to reload from start as I screwed up the first time.
  • I. Hate. Bats.
  • Getting through the "red" cave portion was a joke. Drakes were butchered and milked for XP
  • The Lich sure loved spamming Wraiths.
  • TEG-The bridge is broken replay.gz
Scenario 6
  1. Yeah I agree the bats are annoying here. I'm not really sure how to fix that, though.
  2. Oh you got drakes in that portion? I got saurians; didn't test the drakes option, tbh...
  3. Yeah that lich was kind of annoying, too. I don't think he should be spamming wraiths, though, as the AI has a recruitment pattern that should provide some variance? I dunno...
Scenario 7
  • The loyal Ulfserker is very overpowered but I guess having one did make the scenario a lot easier
  • The loyal troll was attacking undead even when he was incarcerated in the cage. Rather nonsensical.
  • TEG-Lost replay.gz
Scenario 7
Yeah I agree that from a flavor standpoint it does seem kind of weird for the troll to be attacking from inside the cage; from a gameplay standpoint, though, I found it helpful, as I might have had to worry about him dying otherwise
scenario 8
  • The Side 5 undead leader starts by yelling "Death to the Living", and yet...he has Dark Adepts (living humans) as recruits.
  • It is very nonsensical that the undead and rebel trolls are allied to one side.
  • The wolf riders are fine, but they do little against trolls. Almost free XP
  • Side 4 ally stole most of my kills :(
  • TEG-Unusual allies replay.gz
scenario 8
  1. Re: Dark Adepts: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (I might have noticed it at one point and just forgot to change it; I forget... I'll consider changing the dialogue there later)
  2. Yeah I didn't really get the undead and rebel trolls being allied, either, but making them enemies who fight each other might have required other rebalancing, and I was just taking things lazily on my first time thru... maybe I'll change that in an update...
  3. Re: killstealing: I've been frustrated with the AI doing that in other campaigns, too; when I encountered it in ANO I asked how to fix it on Discord, the explanation CelticMinstrel gave me was rather complicated, so I've just opened an issue for it in my ANO repo in the meantime until I figure it out: https://github.com/cooljeanius/A_New_Order/issues/1. I guess writing an AI that avoids killstealing could be generally useful, though, so maybe I'll want to open a bug about it in the main Wesnoth repo as well...
Scenario 9
  • Forcing me to choose which recalls I want to take? Harsh.
  • Why can't I have a third Troll Whelp? :(
  • Took 1x Troll, 1x Troll Whelp and 3x Troll Mystic (or that level 1 shaman, whatever it was called)
Scenario 10
  • Scenario's map generator is broken.
  • Why are the orcs and goblins here? Makes no sense.
  • Goblins in caves sound believable but orcs? Nope.
  • Trolls and Undead castles spawned right next to Hamel's castle.
  • Cannot win scenario. Broken.
  • Makes zero sense why undead and trolls are allied to each other.
  • Screenshot 2020-12-17 at 01.25.21.png
  • Screenshot 2020-12-17 at 01.24.23.png
    TEG-Old friends.gz
Scenario 10
Hm, I'm not really sure how to fix the map generation here... I guess I'll open an issue about it on GitHub to track it for now: https://github.com/cooljeanius/The_Earths_Gut/issues/5
Edit: if Hamel died... did the event where he gets guards if he's attacked at least get triggered first?
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Re: The Earth's Gut for BfW 1.11/1.12

Post by egallager »

I published an update (0.2.19) to the add-ons server incorporating some of Lord-Knightmare's feedback. Specifically:
  • Used theme=Cutscene_Minimal when relevant
  • Changed capitalization of various things, including scenario titles. Note that this may possibly break savefile compatibility on case-sensitive filesystems, but I don't actually have any such filesystem myself, so I can't check to confirm.
  • Various other copyediting
  • Notify the player in more places if debug mode is on, as that can cause unexpected behavior
  • Update AI parameters to use the new [goal] syntax more
  • Widen the map a bit in S10, and give Hamel more guards in it
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Re: The Earth's Gut for BfW 1.11/1.12

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

I have returned.
Scenario 10
  • The scenario can be passed now.
  • I still don't see why Undead and Trolls and Orcs and Goblins share the same team. This is nonsensical.
  • Hamel kept spamming Dwarven Alchemists for some reason
  • TEG-Old friends replay.gz
    (48.65 KiB) Downloaded 200 times
Scenario 11
  • The Dwarven Scout Gomating spawned right in the middle of the Undead hordes.
  • The above thing is because I moved my entire army to the southern corridor for a better defensive position
  • TEG-Under Pressure replay.gz
    (46.52 KiB) Downloaded 212 times
  • Screenshot 2021-01-13 at 16.50.43.png
Okay, so now...your update broke any chance of me getting further progress since the cutscene_minimal theme removes most UI...I had no "End Scenario" button to click.
Spoiler:
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Re: The Earth's Gut for BfW 1.11/1.12

Post by egallager »

Lord-Knightmare wrote: January 13th, 2021, 11:20 am I have returned.
Scenario 10
  • The scenario can be passed now.
  • I still don't see why Undead and Trolls and Orcs and Goblins share the same team. This is nonsensical.
  • Hamel kept spamming Dwarven Alchemists for some reason
  • TEG-Old friends replay.gz
Scenario 10
OK, re: the Alchemists, I'll increase recruitment_diversity a bit; hopefully that will fix it
Scenario 11
  • The Dwarven Scout Gomating spawned right in the middle of the Undead hordes.
  • The above thing is because I moved my entire army to the southern corridor for a better defensive position
  • TEG-Under Pressure replay.gz
  • Screenshot 2021-01-13 at 16.50.43.png
Scenario 11
Hm, I don't really know what to do about Gomating's spawn location... The strategy you used seems kind of unexpected, so I'm not necessarily sure I want to cater to it... Actually, I guess I could give him skirmisher to ensure he doesn't get ZOC-locked...
Okay, so now...your update broke any chance of me getting further progress since the cutscene_minimal theme removes most UI...I had no "End Scenario" button to click.
Spoiler:
OK, I'll fix that.
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Re: The Earth's Gut for BfW 1.14

Post by egallager »

OK I pushed 0.2.20 to the add-on server, which fixes the latest issues identified by Lord-Knightmare
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Re: The Earth's Gut for BfW 1.11/1.12

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

Scenario 14 - Forest Fire
  • This was fun. Best part was realising that one water particle could extinguish 5 adjacent hexes of Fire
  • Wose Saplings have no TC on them
  • Wose Shaman is level 1, but everywhere else it is level 2 and advances from Wose, not Wose Sapling
  • Wose Shaman looks like a twig stack
  • The scenario got winnable after I managed to take down those pesky pillagers.
    TEG-Forest Fire replay.gz
    (38.58 KiB) Downloaded 201 times
Scenario 15 - Save the Heir
  • Konrad reunites with Delfador and meets Kalenz after retaking Elensefar. Here, he is somewhere south of the Gray Woods. I guess it's somewhat believable for this happen.
  • The orc leader kept spamming Orcish Assassins like no tomorrow.
    TEG-Save the Heir replay.gz
    (69.62 KiB) Downloaded 205 times
Scenario 16 - Ferry Crossing
  • Unique scenario. However...
  • One good thing is I was not derived of my mages and woses by some "left behind" thing.
  • The capture weapon special is nonsensical. Like pirates trying to board a transport galleon should be met with resistance not "Ah, I am helpless and no!!"
  • How exactly do they build ships so fast? This was very WTF in terms of the passage of time and where Hamel get the labor resources to construct ships.
  • Funny, how Woses stood there as trees got cut down to make boats and ships.
    TEG-Ferry Crossing replay.gz
    (50.89 KiB) Downloaded 194 times
Scenario 17 - The Return
  • This was cool. No negative feedback or criticism on this one.
    TEG-Return replay.gz
    (52.63 KiB) Downloaded 189 times
Scenario 18 - The Investigation
  • Bat spawns...really? just really?
  • One thing which is very stupid in this scenario...Elara says she needs a source of fire to open this magic door...So...I just want to put it out there.
    Red Mage/Arch Mage/Silver Mage/Mage: Am I a joke to you?
    Troll Shaman/Fire Wizard: Am I a joke to you?
    Dwarven Dragonguard: Am I a joke to you? (They do use ignition/controlled explosion of some sort to make their thundersticks blast projectiles really fast)
    Elara used an extinguished brazier as the source...which made no sense. At All.
    TEG-The Investigation replay.gz
    (50.06 KiB) Downloaded 219 times
Scenario 19 - Prison
  • Got owned the first time since I have a knack for exploration
  • Second attempt was more direct so I skipped a few skippable chambers
  • Ah, yes...lvl 3 dwarven Sentinels on castle hexes and they don't move...Yeah...this was the evilest thing a scenario designer could do.
  • You made me watch my recall list get slaughtered by a scenario mechanic... :( :augh:
    TEG-Prison replay.gz
    (68.53 KiB) Downloaded 215 times
Scenario 20
  • Making me pick from my leftover recall list to send a pseudo-suicide mission? Evil.
  • I just sent some trolls and dwarven lords.
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Re: The Earth's Gut for BfW 1.11/1.12

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

Sorry for the double post, but I sort of hit the attachment limiter on the previous one...
Scenario 21 - Wesnoth Soldiers
  • Is this scenario a meme? Seriously, tell me. This was a meme, wasn't it?
  • Lancer spam... :x :x Just why?
  • TEG-Wesnoth Soldiers replay.gz
    (64.57 KiB) Downloaded 195 times
Okay, so. I guess that's the end of playable scenarios. Any chances of you finishing it?
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Re: The Earth's Gut for BfW 1.11/1.12

Post by egallager »

Lord-Knightmare wrote: January 18th, 2021, 1:05 am
Scenario 14 - Forest Fire
  • This was fun. Best part was realising that one water particle could extinguish 5 adjacent hexes of Fire
  • Wose Saplings have no TC on them
  • Wose Shaman is level 1, but everywhere else it is level 2 and advances from Wose, not Wose Sapling
  • Wose Shaman looks like a twig stack
  • The scenario got winnable after I managed to take down those pesky pillagers.
    TEG-Forest Fire replay.gz
Scenario 14 - Forest Fire
  • Yeah I dunno how to fix those issues with the woses...
  • There's some ifdef-ed out code limiting the number of contemporaneous pillagers; should I add it back in?
Scenario 15 - Save the Heir
  • Konrad reunites with Delfador and meets Kalenz after retaking Elensefar. Here, he is somewhere south of the Gray Woods. I guess it's somewhat believable for this happen.
  • The orc leader kept spamming Orcish Assassins like no tomorrow.
    TEG-Save the Heir replay.gz
Scenario 15 - Save the Heir
Re: the Assassins: Huh, I didn't notice that... I guess since I only tested on Easy and the orcs can only recruit them on Normal and Hard...
Scenario 16 - Ferry Crossing
  • Unique scenario. However...
  • One good thing is I was not derived of my mages and woses by some "left behind" thing.
  • The capture weapon special is nonsensical. Like pirates trying to board a transport galleon should be met with resistance not "Ah, I am helpless and no!!"
  • How exactly do they build ships so fast? This was very WTF in terms of the passage of time and where Hamel get the labor resources to construct ships.
  • Funny, how Woses stood there as trees got cut down to make boats and ships.
    TEG-Ferry Crossing replay.gz
Scenario 16 - Ferry Crossing
It's a video game; just roll with it. I don't think all the mechanics need to be overly justified as long as they're cool.
Scenario 17 - The Return
  • This was cool. No negative feedback or criticism on this one.
    TEG-Return replay.gz
Scenario 18 - The Investigation
  • Bat spawns...really? just really?
  • One thing which is very stupid in this scenario...Elara says she needs a source of fire to open this magic door...So...I just want to put it out there.
    Red Mage/Arch Mage/Silver Mage/Mage: Am I a joke to you?
    Troll Shaman/Fire Wizard: Am I a joke to you?
    Dwarven Dragonguard: Am I a joke to you? (They do use ignition/controlled explosion of some sort to make their thundersticks blast projectiles really fast)
    Elara used an extinguished brazier as the source...which made no sense. At All.
    TEG-The Investigation replay.gz
Scenario 18 - The Investigation
  • I actually turned down the frequency of the bat spawns from what they were originally because I was annoyed by them, too
  • If I just let any unit with fire open the door that'd defeat the entire point of the scenario
Scenario 19 - Prison
  • Got owned the first time since I have a knack for exploration
  • Second attempt was more direct so I skipped a few skippable chambers
  • Ah, yes...lvl 3 dwarven Sentinels on castle hexes and they don't move...Yeah...this was the evilest thing a scenario designer could do.
  • You made me watch my recall list get slaughtered by a scenario mechanic... :( :augh:
    TEG-Prison replay.gz
Scenario 19 - Prison
  • Yeah I increased the number of turns you have to explore because I was kinda slow on my first playthru, too
  • I didn't think the sentinels were that bad because by that point you should have a pretty overpowered party that can handle them
  • I know, I hate the execution mechanic, too! But I feel like you're SUPPOSED to hate it; like, it's supposed to have an emotional impact to drive home the fact that the undead here are really bad guys.
Scenario 20
  • Making me pick from my leftover recall list to send a pseudo-suicide mission? Evil.
  • I just sent some trolls and dwarven lords.
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Re: The Earth's Gut for BfW 1.14

Post by egallager »

Lord-Knightmare wrote: January 18th, 2021, 1:07 am Sorry for the double post, but I sort of hit the attachment limiter on the previous one...
Scenario 21 - Wesnoth Soldiers
  • Is this scenario a meme? Seriously, tell me. This was a meme, wasn't it?
  • Lancer spam... :x :x Just why?
  • TEG-Wesnoth Soldiers replay.gz
Scenario 21 - Wesnoth Soldiers
  • I... don't know if it's a meme or not? What do you mean in asking?
  • Should I do a {LIMIT_CONTEMPORANEOUS_RECRUITS} on the Lancers?
Okay, so. I guess that's the end of playable scenarios. Any chances of you finishing it?
I mean theoretically I could finish it but so far all my modding of Wesnoth has just been editing other people's scenarios; I haven't actually made a scenario of my own from scratch yet... I guess the next scenario is supposed to be in the Caverns of Flame; is that a place that already has an existing map for it somewhere? I dunno, I'm tempted just to do a simple "Rocks fall, everybody dies" cutscene for the final scenario, just because I'm lazy and that'd be easier than having to create and test an actual final scenario... if anyone wants to help me come up with something better, advice and contributions are welcome!
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Re: The Earth's Gut for BfW 1.11/1.12

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

I... don't know if it's a meme or not? What do you mean in asking?
Should I do a {LIMIT_CONTEMPORANEOUS_RECRUITS} on the Lancers?
The scenario just heralds the start of some big battle and then the enemy just retreats? That was a bit disappointing...for my Dwarven Lord squad.
Not really...The Lancer spam is fine as it quickly reduces my veterans but sort of sad seeing the mighty Lords of Dwarfdom get taken out so easily.
There's some ifdef-ed out code limiting the number of contemporaneous pillagers; should I add it back in?
Hmm, not really. I had to use Kalenz and Delfador to take out one every turn so they got extinguished before becoming a real problem.
I mean theoretically I could finish it but so far all my modding of Wesnoth has just been editing other people's scenarios; I haven't actually made a scenario of my own from scratch yet... I guess the next scenario is supposed to be in the Caverns of Flame; is that a place that already has an existing map for it somewhere? I dunno, I'm tempted just to do a simple "Rocks fall, everybody dies" cutscene for the final scenario, just because I'm lazy and that'd be easier than having to create and test an actual final scenario... if anyone wants to help me come up with something better, advice and contributions are welcome!
My thoughts on what the last scenario(s) should be like:
Spoiler:
Misc
Additionally, please request one of the esteemed forum moderators to edit the title of the Forum Topic. TEG is still shown with Wesnoth 1.11/1/12.
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Re: The Earth's Gut for BfW 1.11/1.12

Post by egallager »

Lord-Knightmare wrote: January 18th, 2021, 11:13 am My thoughts on what the last scenario(s) should be like:
Spoiler:
You mean 17? 16 is "Hasty Alliance"; 17 is "Scepter of Fire"... Anyways, between HttT's and SoF's portrayals of the Caverns of Flame, I think I'd prefer stealing from HttT's, as it's bigger and gives more space to explore... it's also randomly generated, though, but apparently I can get around that by just saving the map? Looking at the map, though, it's not as lava-filled on the first turn as I remembered; I guess the lava-spreading mechanic takes a while to do its job... how many turns of lava-spreading do you think would be enough to create a decently flame-y map?
Misc
Additionally, please request one of the esteemed forum moderators to edit the title of the Forum Topic. TEG is still shown with Wesnoth 1.11/1/12.
Yeah I agree; which moderator do you think would be best?
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Re: The Earth's Gut for BfW 1.11/1.12

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

Anyways, between HttT's and SoF's portrayals of the Caverns of Flame, I think I'd prefer stealing from HttT's, as it's bigger and gives more space to explore... it's also randomly generated, though, but apparently I can get around that by just saving the map? Looking at the map, though, it's not as lava-filled on the first turn as I remembered; I guess the lava-spreading mechanic takes a while to do its job... how many turns of lava-spreading do you think would be enough to create a decently flame-y map?
Why not just take the HttT one and add lava pits/chasms via the application of a [terrain_mask][/terrain_mask]?
or, just edit in Lava pits/chasms with a saved map of HttT's S17 using the map-editor.
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egallager
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Joined: November 19th, 2020, 7:27 pm
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Re: The Earth's Gut for BfW 1.11/1.12

Post by egallager »

Lord-Knightmare wrote: January 18th, 2021, 7:45 pm
Anyways, between HttT's and SoF's portrayals of the Caverns of Flame, I think I'd prefer stealing from HttT's, as it's bigger and gives more space to explore... it's also randomly generated, though, but apparently I can get around that by just saving the map? Looking at the map, though, it's not as lava-filled on the first turn as I remembered; I guess the lava-spreading mechanic takes a while to do its job... how many turns of lava-spreading do you think would be enough to create a decently flame-y map?
Why not just take the HttT one and add lava pits/chasms via the application of a [terrain_mask][/terrain_mask]?
or, just edit in Lava pits/chasms with a saved map of HttT's S17 using the map-editor.
OK, I'm doing the second one, and that seems to be working so far... I pushed some commits to GitHub getting something started that way which you can check out if you'd like.
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