The Sojournings of Grog (3.6.1 is out)

[shadowblack]

Okay, I've filed a bug report here. I hope that is good enough.

[Eros]

Ok, sorry for the long absence I am down with bronchitis and that puts wesnoth a long way down the list of priorities.

A suggestion for the Homecoming scenario: If the player took the shorter route (and thus did not kill the ants in the south) give him the task to clear the path south. It was really weird seeing Grog walk right through an ant at the end of the scenario, you know... Or just give the player a signpost he must reach instead of automoving Grog, Zhurg and Elyssa

Reason why I did it my way was that it would be endlessly boring for the player to have to move Grog himself with endless end turns. Not moving him at all is confusing as the player then doesnt understand the geography so well. Best of all would be just to kill the ants silently. (should have done it when I wrote the scenario)

On Hard the scenarios did not seem all that hard despite my atrocious luck (in fact the first one was a bit easier because instead of Walking Corpses there are Souless and so the Naga needed more time and more units to kill them than on lower difficulties). But that might be partially due to me having played the campaign before and having some idea what to expect and how to deal with it

I havent had time to play the newest version but I think hard needs to be HARD. I am a competent BfW player but I am not brilliant and I think that I ought to find hard difficult, challenging etc. Just if its difficult in a less boring way than NR thats good.

A4: raise Bats' gold, decrease Zurg's and Grog's gold, raise swimming Walking Corpses on Medium and both Walking Corpses and Soulless on Hard, increase the amount of turns to resist before opening tunnels.
- A5: Nagas. On Hard, the L2 Assassin could be useful, but as you know its sprite is just a non animated frankenstein, and that's why we removed it. I also have another solution: Vendanna made the sprite (animated) of a female Naga that has a magical attack, like the Mermaid Initiate. (link) I think that it may be useful also for B7, where it can be added to the Nagas' recruit list: opinion?

A4 - wouldnt touch side 1's gold as thats to crucial a factor but income maybe other than that I agree. Wouldnt recommend touching number of turns to resist as it just gets boring then.
A5 - I dont know the sprite maybe you could post it?

KUtGW

[Elvish_Hunter]

Ok, sorry for the long absence I am down with bronchitis and that puts wesnoth a long way down the list of priorities.

I wish you a quick heal.

Best of all would be just to kill the ants silently. (should have done it when I wrote the scenario)

Already done.

I havent had time to play the newest version but I think hard needs to be HARD. I am a competent BfW player but I am not brilliant and I think that I ought to find hard difficult, challenging etc. Just if its difficult in a less boring way than NR thats good.

I'll try, but it isn't so easy to do. We can always alter gold settings a second time, if needed.

A4 - wouldnt touch side 1's gold as thats to crucial a factor but income maybe other than that I agree. Wouldnt recommend touching number of turns to resist as it just gets boring then.

OK.

A5 - I dont know the sprite maybe you could post it?

Direct link to the zipped sprites.

Okay, I've filed a bug report here. I hope that is good enough.

Maybe adding also the replay file will be useful; other than that, I think that it's perfect.
Just because I'm an Elvish Bug Hunter , I started playing UtBS on Hard to file a bug report for SCATTER_UNITS (it's used several times in Across the Harsh Sands). And what I found? Two more bugs! One was that, on Medium and Hard, the Ghosts didn't flee after killing them: it was a similar bug to the one of our units recruited with XP, and I already posted a patch for it. The second is that I noticed that, if a dehydrated unit picks the Traveler's Ring, such unit is not rehydrated, and will never be until it levels up. I already prepared some savegames, and I'm currently trying to understand where the code breaks to see if I can patch it before reporting it. Just if someone is interested, my stderr says:

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20101217 11:24:24 warning engine: variable_info: invalid WML array index, hydrating_units[].attack.length
20101217 11:24:24 warning engine: variable_info: invalid WML array index, hydrating_units[].variables.original_attack[].damage
20101217 11:24:24 warning engine: variable_info: invalid WML array index, hydrating_units[].x
20101217 11:24:24 warning engine: variable_info: invalid WML array index, hydrating_units[].y

In other words, I was looking for one bug, and I found other two. Of course, I'll file a proper report once that I finished investigating it.
EDIT: I just posted the patch for this second bug. It was a nested event that created such problem. Removing it, using [filter_condition] and a variable check fixed it. Maybe there is a more efficient way to code this, but this one works.
EDIT2: the two bugfixes above were committed by silene. Apart from this, I added levels to A4. I increased the amount of turns to resist, but just a bit, 2 more on Normal, and 4 more on Hard, to make it harder without making it boring. However, it seems to me that the carryover is making scenarios a bit easier than they should: with 40% carryover, I started A4 with 214 gold (I finished A3 in 9 turns), so I should decrease starting gold in every scenario, even on Easy; and maybe, add back the cave path only on Hard (in A3). Do you agree?

A4-Siege_Perilous.cfg

(20.18 KiB) Downloaded 205 times

Finally, a note for Daravel: I added your corrections to Prologue. The "from History of Quenoth..." screen is copied directly from UtBS; so, I can't change it, unless it is changed also in UtBS, or I remove such screen and replace it with a completely rewritten from scratch text. Other than that, it's a very good work.

[Daravel]

Attached are the changes for Scenario 4: Homecoming.

I'm playing on 1.9.2, not sure on the version of the campaign, but it's before you added any difficulty levels

- Scenario 2 (boats): It's pretty easy and there wasn't much danger of losing any units. A lot of the scenario is spent moving the ship and fighting non-important enemies (naga's and the zombies). Maybe have it so the Mermen have to engage the Naga's so you can sail through safely.

- Scenario 3: Again, it's fairly easy and straightforward. You can pick your fights and ensure that no units are in danger. It needs to be a lot tougher and make the player react a bit more - have some secondary objectives. It'd be good if the bandits were hidden in the sand and surrounded you.

Scenario 4:

- Elyssa called it the "Dwarf Kingdom". I always assumed the whole of the map (including the old map) was all owned by the Trolls and was taken by the Dwarves as the bit designated as Grogs home is very small. Do the Dwarves have a main home elsewhere? It just doesnt make sense to me that two big enemies would live so close to each other and in such small places.

- At the start you have 2 guards leave. You could have it so that if you don't get inside the cave and down one of the paths before they return then you are discovered and some Dwarves fight you in the main chamber

- When you go on the unstable terrain in the south tunnel, it makes the sound you get when you are given gold.

- What is the point of Elyssa's terrain change ability? Is it merely cosmetic? Because it is mentioned in-game and listed as an ability, but it doesn't actually do anything.

South path: It's very easy and straightforward. You just move along slowly and kill whatever you see. It might be a good idea to make the guards come back and chase you - giving you more danger. I just never feel like I'm going to lose a unit, let alone the scenario

Main path: I'd change it so that it was destroyed in the fight, as it doesn't make much sense for the main path to be disused. How come it is completely blocked off in the new map?

North path: It wasn't very hard, more slow going with the bottle neck. I expected it to be larger and have more Dwarves. It'd be neat if you met the two guards again and they were 'drunk' and had a penalty to their stats.

[Elvish_Hunter]

Maybe have it so the Mermen have to engage the Naga's so you can sail through safely.

Do you mean that I should make mandatory to defeat the Nagas?

Again, it's fairly easy and straightforward. You can pick your fights and ensure that no units are in danger. It needs to be a lot tougher and make the player react a bit more - have some secondary objectives. It'd be good if the bandits were hidden in the sand and surrounded you.

Well, the first and second (with dehydration penalties, that apply also to enemies) UtBS scenarios are made this way; the Elves have a great defense and movement advantage on sand, so great that throwing more unit against the player will be equal to throwing free XPs. For what I know, the only units that will be a challenge to the Desert Elves on sands are the Aragwaith (good defense and movement on sand, good firepower, a bit weak on HPs) - but then, it'll be another scenario. And about secondary objectives, I currently lack ideas.

Elyssa called it the "Dwarf Kingdom". I always assumed the whole of the map (including the old map) was all owned by the Trolls and was taken by the Dwarves as the bit designated as Grogs home is very small. Do the Dwarves have a main home elsewhere? It just doesnt make sense to me that two big enemies would live so close to each other and in such small places.

The Dwarves have a "home" also in A2-2. And yes, they're very close, and this is one of the reasons of their frequent conflicts; did you played UtBS' A Subterranean Struggle (where you decide to ally with Trolls or Dwarves)? And don't forget HAPMA (http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Wesnoth_Acronyms_and_Slang)

- At the start you have 2 guards leave. You could have it so that if you don't get inside the cave and down one of the paths before they return then you are discovered and some Dwarves fight you in the main chamber

There is already a discovered event if you aren't quick enough.

- When you go on the unstable terrain in the south tunnel, it makes the sound you get when you are given gold.

Yes; I always forgot to ask Eros the reason of this choice. I'll fix it.

- What is the point of Elyssa's terrain change ability? Is it merely cosmetic? Because it is mentioned in-game and listed as an ability, but it doesn't actually do anything.

It does change terrain; it doesn't do on every terrain. If you burn something on sand, you'll make a crater; on cave, you'll make debris; on snowy terrains, the snow will melt. There are also a lot of other changes; I don't remember if it changes also grass -> dry terrain.

Main path: I'd change it so that it was destroyed in the fight, as it doesn't make much sense for the main path to be disused. How come it is completely blocked off in the new map?

Maybe an explosion made by Dwarves for some reason?

It'd be neat if you met the two guards again and they were 'drunk' and had a penalty to their stats.

New "drunk" trait. Fine, I'll see what I can do. It will be fine -1 damage to all attacks, -4 HP and -1 MP?
I also managed to add levels to A5; to alter custom unit stats, I created a macro, EASY_AND_HARD_MOD, that gives on Easy an object that lowers unit stats, and on Hard an object that increases stats. I also used higher leveled units, and added the Naga Jackla unit (not yet sure if I'll keep it; I also centred its sprites, so I need only a confirmation by Eros on her stats). I also encountered some issues, like AI Nagas and Bats not attacking me (I'll add some AI configuration; I'll try to use the new 1.8 syntax, even if this will slow me down), the Rock Golems not having a missing sound, and I still have to add my custom Lua tags [nearest_hex] and [nearest_unit] (and once again, don't worry, because to use them no Lua knowledge is needed), but it's almost done.

Merry Christmas to everyone!

[Daravel]

Do you mean that I should make mandatory to defeat the Nagas?

Not make it so you have to defeat all the Nagas, but more that you have to use the Mermen to secure safe passage for the ship. Right now the scenario consists of having the Mermen fight an entirely insignificant battle with the Naga's while you land your units and fight a few easy bandits and scorpions. By having your ship move through the Naga's (by moving them further out on the map) it makes the Mermen integral to your success and provides a more challenging problem.

Well, the first and second (with dehydration penalties, that apply also to enemies) UtBS scenarios are made this way; the Elves have a great defense and movement advantage on sand, so great that throwing more unit against the player will be equal to throwing free XPs. For what I know, the only units that will be a challenge to the Desert Elves on sands are the Aragwaith (good defense and movement on sand, good firepower, a bit weak on HPs) - but then, it'll be another scenario. And about secondary objectives, I currently lack ideas.

Ideas to modify the scenario to present more of a challange and to make it a little different:
- The bandits that appear with Elyssa could surround your units - making the fight tougher and also fits with the idea of them delaying their conversation until they are all dead
- Make the player have to cross bad terrain (river/quagmire (really wet sand)/forest (containing Cactoses)/quicksand (if you remain on a hex of quicksand for one turn then you are slowed) and have Bandits attack at this time
- Make Cactoses have the marksman ability or customise a bandit to have marksman

The Dwarves have a "home" also in A2-2. And yes, they're very close, and this is one of the reasons of their frequent conflicts; did you played UtBS' A Subterranean Struggle (where you decide to ally with Trolls or Dwarves)? And don't forget HAPMA (http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Wesnoth_Acronyms_and_Slang)

So, the map that we play in is all previously Troll territory but has become part of the Dwarven kingdom since the war?

It does change terrain; it doesn't do on every terrain. If you burn something on sand, you'll make a crater; on cave, you'll make debris; on snowy terrains, the snow will melt. There are also a lot of other changes; I don't remember if it changes also grass -> dry terrain.

Sand > Crater and cave>debris don't change the defensive values, do they? Snow>non-snow would. My point was, if you don't change the defense value then what is the point in changing the terrain? It would have utility on a snow map but there are only 1 or 2. The ability doesn't seem to serve any function - unless I'm missing something.

New "drunk" trait. Fine, I'll see what I can do. It will be fine -1 damage to all attacks, -4 HP and -1 MP?

Sounds good

[shadowblack]

It does change terrain; it doesn't do on every terrain. If you burn something on sand, you'll make a crater; on cave, you'll make debris; on snowy terrains, the snow will melt. There are also a lot of other changes; I don't remember if it changes also grass -> dry terrain.

Sand > Crater and cave>debris don't change the defensive values, do they? Snow>non-snow would. My point was, if you don't change the defense value then what is the point in changing the terrain? It would have utility on a snow map but there are only 1 or 2. The ability doesn't seem to serve any function - unless I'm missing something.

Cave->Debris can be pretty important, actually: Desert elves have 30% in caves and 50% on hills. Debris counts as hills, so changing cave to debris significantly improves defense for any desert elves still alive.

[Elvish_Hunter]

Not make it so you have to defeat all the Nagas, but more that you have to use the Mermen to secure safe passage for the ship. Right now the scenario consists of having the Mermen fight an entirely insignificant battle with the Naga's while you land your units and fight a few easy bandits and scorpions. By having your ship move through the Naga's (by moving them further out on the map) it makes the Mermen integral to your success and provides a more challenging problem.

Eros originally wanted to make it so that the Nagas are afraid of deep water, and this translated in an [ai] [avoid] tag. Removing it, and making them move also on deep water, may be enough to make it more interesting. Or not?

Ideas to modify the scenario to present more of a challange and to make it a little different:
- The bandits that appear with Elyssa could surround your units - making the fight tougher and also fits with the idea of them delaying their conversation until they are all dead
- Make the player have to cross bad terrain (river/quagmire (really wet sand)/forest (containing Cactoses)/quicksand (if you remain on a hex of quicksand for one turn then you are slowed) and have Bandits attack at this time
- Make Cactoses have the marksman ability or customise a bandit to have marksman

Surrounding all the other units can be quite heavy to code - don't forget that the player may have split the group in two parts; also, to trigger Elyssa is enough to move one unit. Cactoses with marksman will create balancing problems for both C1 scenarios, but for a bandit can be good (the Huntsman already have marksman). Adding bad terrains and the code for quicksand can be interesting, but will require me to rework the map, and also I don't think that there is a quicksand terrain available, either in mainline or UMC, and I don't yet understand much TerrainGraphicsWML. So, this will be a task for when I finished adding the difficult levels.

So, the map that we play in is all previously Troll territory but has become part of the Dwarven kingdom since the war?

More or less, yes. At the end of the cave scenarios in UtBS (troll branch), the Trolls managed (with the help from the Elves) to conquer a part of the Dwarvish kingdom; and, between the two campaigns, the Dwarves have regrouped and counter-attacked.

Sand > Crater and cave>debris don't change the defensive values, do they? Snow>non-snow would. My point was, if you don't change the defense value then what is the point in changing the terrain? It would have utility on a snow map but there are only 1 or 2. The ability doesn't seem to serve any function - unless I'm missing something.

Cave->Debris can be pretty important, actually: Desert elves have 30% in caves and 50% on hills. Debris counts as hills, so changing cave to debris significantly improves defense for any desert elves still alive.

Let me quote from the E-kills.cfg:

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#For some fun we have that when Elyssa kills something interesting things occur (ranged only)

Originally, it was meant to be more or less an easter egg, and was here from when Eros and Mars maintained it; later, I decided to convert it as ability. It's a code placed mainly for fun, not for its defense effects (although it has some); for example, recently I added some lines to change some village types to their ruined variant.
Anyway, I added levels to A6; I need to modify it so the ring gives only +1 MP on Medium and Hard, add the AI syntax to A5, add and test my Lua tags [nearest_hex] and [nearest_unit] (so I'll remove the macro versions), and try to add Daravel's dialogue correction for A0, then I'll be able to upload a new release.

EDIT: Version 2.10.9 is on the server. This release includes difficult levels for A4, A5 and A6, the custom Lua tags above, the Naga Jackla unit, 1.8 AI syntax for side 2 and 3 in A5, some small balancing modifications, and some bugfixes. I don't know if it is only my computer, but I noticed that, on 1.9.3 for Windows, the new ADVANCE_UNIT macro (that is based upon [modify_unit] Lua tag) looks slower than in 1.8 (but this isn't a problem), and also doesn't change the unit portrait (this happens at the end of A5, when the prisoners take their weapons and advance to soldiers: they keep the Peasant and Woodsman portraits). I'll check, on Linux, if it's fixed in trunk; I'll also try to write a replacement Lua version of ADVANCE_UNIT and TRANSFORM_UNIT macros (that are listed in FutureWML).
Daravel, excuse me if, for this release, I haven't added your dialogues; it was due only to lack of time.

[tr0ll]

using wesnoth v1.9.3 on linux, i updated to TSoG 2.10.9 and loaded scenario Nemesis which i think is just after A6.
the following messages appear in my .xsession-errors file:

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20101229 23:10:02 error general: no location found for 'data/add-ons/Great_Legend_Era/translations', skipping textdomain
20101229 23:11:15 warning engine: variable_info: retrieving member of non-existent WML container, stored_bodyguard_1.side
20101229 23:11:15 warning engine: variable_info: retrieving member of non-existent WML container, stored_bodyguard_2.side
20101229 23:11:15 warning engine: variable_info: retrieving member of non-existent WML container, stored_bodyguard_3.side
20101229 23:11:15 warning engine: variable_info: retrieving member of non-existent WML container, stored_bodyguard_4.side

continuing play, will report more issues if they occur.

suggestion: put campaign version in the save files

[Elvish_Hunter]

Thank you for the report. I was already aware of these small errors, but I didn't yet fixed them, because the code is structured in a way that does something only of those variables contain something. Anyway, I'll think how to fix them - perhaps by giving them a "none" value at the start of A3.

suggestion: put campaign version in the save files

AFAIK, no campaign adds the version to the savefile name. However, in the campaign folder, there is a file called _info.cfg: this one contains the version number. And there is also my changelog.
I also prepared a new baseframe for the Naga Assassin, to replace the old one that was made by Vendanna, and that we removed some time ago. It's a frankensteining of two frames of the Naga Warrior (to fill the gaps left by deleting the two swords), the Elvish Sharpshooter's bow, and Zerovirus' Naga Hunter. Eros, it's OK for you if I use it to add back the Naga Assassin (remember that I cannot animate it)?

assassin-new.png (3.37 KiB) Viewed 3295 times

[Eros]

Elvish: The Naga sprites you posted look fine but I would be very cautious of adding a magical archer. The assassin looks good as well but I dont think its necessary in the campaign. I wouldnt add it until it is animated at least. Otherwise its looking good.

[Elvish_Hunter]

The Naga sprites you posted look fine but I would be very cautious of adding a magical archer.

Of course I am as well. I added it only on Medium and Hard, and if it doesn't improve the game I'll remove it.

The assassin looks good as well

Thank you!

I dont think its necessary in the campaign. I wouldnt add it until it is animated at least.

On the contrary, I think it's necessary, because on higher difficult levels the player gains more XP and has more leveled units. And a L3 Troll makes really short work of a Naga Hunter while a Naga Assassin will at least cause more damage. So, since the sprite isn't too bad, I added it as well, again only on Medium and Hard.
That said, my plan about the animations (for this and other units) is to post in the Art Workshop (later, when I finished adding levels) a thread where willing artists will be able to post their artwork for the campaign; but, for this, we need to place at least the baseframe:

How to get art made for your Wesnoth add-on
What not to do:
* Never expect artists to contribute art to an unplayable or unpublished concept.
What to do:
* Do get your idea playable with placeholder graphics if it's necessary. Units really only need one base frame for playtesting.

A good idea — if well done, will be fun whether or not it has cool, custom graphics. If you can pull that off, you may have earned an artist's assistance.

[Eros]

Yeah, I think I agree about the assassin but I don't think that a magical archer really does the Naga race justice.

[Elvish_Hunter]

Version 2.10.20 is on the 1.9 server. This time, I added difficult levels for A7, B1, and B2, the new Naga Assassin, the Rune Lord in B1 and B2 is a mainline level 4 Arcanister with an object that gives him also lightning bolts (more dangerous!), and cannot longer be killed in B1 (it was almost impossible even before, so I added back FORCE_CHANCE_TO_HIT and warned the player about this), all the surviving units from B1 are unstored in B2 with full HP and moves (on the recall list where appropriate), Daravel's corrections, a new description for the Gold Mage unit, rewrote MOVE_UNIT_IN, and some fixes here and there.
Eros, do you have any suggestion for the difficult levels in the B part (the list that you prepared for the A part was extremely useful ) ?

[Eros]

Greetings from the north. I shall play test the balenced levels asap.