1.14 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.2.8

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Huston
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.5

Post by Huston »

i think the save files are compatible. after all how much can be changed in the way a save file is saved? if it isn't compatible. wmllint would probably make it compatible.
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melinath
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.5

Post by melinath »

Huston wrote:i think the save files are compatible. after all how much can be changed in the way a save file is saved? if it isn't compatible. wmllint would probably make it compatible.
No. The problem isn't in the WML, it's in the campaign. The campaign has changed. What happens, for example, if there is a new unit that you were supposed to get back in scenario 3? If you load a game from scenario 5, you'll never get the unit and you'll get errors later on. (I don't think that this is actually the case - that's just an example.)
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Turuk
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.5

Post by Turuk »

What melinath said, the save games between the two (between changes in the campaign itself and from 1.4->1.6) would render it incompatible.
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JemDaddyO
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.5

Post by JemDaddyO »

Ok, I really botched this one taking too long to figure out what to do and sending my whole army around the wrong way.
Spoiler:
I may just play the new version when all is said and done. It was a very nice balance of time, didn't take too many days to complete it, I like that, not having much time to play these days. And I'll reserve judgment for the how the final version plays, but I enjoy the clues and things that help you along. That's a cool thing that many campaigns don't utilize.
Jacques_Fol
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.5

Post by Jacques_Fol »

Sorry to hear that you ran out of time. The turn limit was also one of the things that was upped in the updated version so as not to punish the player for taking a smidgeon too long - I believe it's now set at 120 turns.

However, you may be happy to hear that not only is the Great Troll still included in the updated version of the campaign but even has his very own portrait, courtesy of Mefisto.
JemDaddyO wrote: I may just play the new version when all is said and done. It was a very nice balance of time, didn't take too many days to complete it, I like that, not having much time to play these days. And I'll reserve judgment for the how the final version plays, but I enjoy the clues and things that help you along. That's a cool thing that many campaigns don't utilize.
Actually, you may not yet be quite finished with the campaign once you defeat your foes in this scenario. Even in the version you're currently using, you may still end up having one very brief playing scenario to go, depending on the choice you make; and there are two more scenarios in the updated version. But I completely agree and happily concur with the idea of medium length campaigns for those of us with sparse time. And many thanks for the kind words as regards the story aspect!
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.7

Post by Jacques_Fol »

By popular demand (if a few well-intentioned comments count as the populus), version 1.0.6 is out. It includes a few little adjustments that may interest those who already know the campaign:
Spoiler:
If anyone tries these new features out, I'll be grateful for feedback.

EDIT: Version 1.0.7 has been uploaded to the Add-ons server. It includes the following:

- an experiment at right-left dialogue portrait positioning using Valkier's excellent skeleton portrait (seen "in action" at the beginning of scenario 11)

- a new intro sequence at the beginning of the campaign with some "nicked" story art and featuring the same skeleton portrait (deserves to be seen and works very well for the intended purpose)

- some polishing up of the code in scenario 1
Spoiler:
If anyone tries out the new intro, I will be grateful for the feedback (beyond general impressions) on how the placement of the skeleton portraits in the intro worked out with your screen resolution (as the placing of images on top of story art is not absolute and while it works well at 1024x768 it may be off on larger screens).

I am still keeping track of bera's advancement on the "goblin trader" portrait which will be included in scenario 1, after which only the biggest art task will still remain: to track down suitable portraits for the two main protagonists (and possibly in several stages). Should anyone be willing to tackle them, you are of course most welcome.
jsacton
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.7

Post by jsacton »

Scenario 2, battle for wesnoth 1.5.8




"Error while playing the game: game_error: Unkown unit type " while gerating traits.



And it seemed like a great campaign to.... help?
Jacques_Fol
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.7

Post by Jacques_Fol »

Thanks for posting, jsacton, and glad you liked how the campaign began - but it only starts picking up steam from scenario 2 onwards, so I hope we figure this out!

I have never had this happen, so it might be useful to know more about it. For instance, what campaign version you had, and hopefully the relevant entry in the file "stderr.txt" which logs these things (you should be able to find it in your main Wesnoth folder).

I'm also wondering whether it may be something to do with the version of the Wesnoth engine you're using - trying to track down what the error itself might mean, I found this bug thread which seems to have been the same sort of a problem and related to the 1.5.7 version of BfW. Unfortunately, that person did not supply further information (including the campaign involved), so I don't know why esr closed the bug, but it has not resurfaced later.

Looking at it without further information, I can only guess whether it has to do with the "invisible leader" unit used for leaderless sides. I do not know what is or was the status of generating random traits for leaders in 1.5.8, but that invisible leader has no type. If, eventually, all else failed, maybe adding a type to this unit might solve it; still, this probably isn't it if the bug appears midway through the scenario.

It may also be an unfortunate bug that has creeped into 1.5.8 and was solved by the 1.6 line, or some coding that was upped to 1.6 standards but no longer works with 1.5.8. As said, I do not have any such problems testing the latest version of the campaign on the 1.6 branch. It also appears that 1.6.4 is the last of the (major) 1.6 maintenance releases, so if you were waiting before downloading the polished 1.6 branch version, this might be a good time to get it, and you may find that the problem disappears on its own. (You might also be interested to know that I will shortly (in a day or two) be uploading an updated version of the campaign with some nice art added from this thread.)

If you prefer to stick with 1.5.8, however, I will try to help you solve the problem and stderr.txt might help us track it down.
delirium
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.7

Post by delirium »

I don't have anything constructive to add, but I wanted to drop in a word of appreciation for Jacques_Fol's beautiful campaign. It was a truly marvelous experience, due entirely to the well-scripted dialogue and plot. In contrast to most campaigns, mainline included, A Rough Life was story-driven rather than centered around repetitive scenarios all based on the same concept of "eliminate enemy leader". I was pleasantly surprised at how nicely the story and game aspects of the campaign tied together.

By all means, your first campaign attempt was much more than a success. I'd love to see A Rough Life incorporated into mainline, despite the glaring differences as well as its irrelevance to Wesnoth history, but regardless your campaign was an unique experience. An example of a story told through a game, a breath of fresh air for Wesnoth players like myself who found even the mainline campaigns to be bland and dull after a while. At the very least, the campaign deserves more recognition.

Thanks for a memorable story that was thoroughly enjoyable in its presentation.
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.7

Post by Jacques_Fol »

Most happy to hear that, delirium, thanks - a campaign designer could not wish for a kinder feedback and you've made my day.

As far as the status of ARL within the BfW realm is concerned, I can only guess what the mainline developers' future plans are, of course, but I suspect they will mostly focus on advancing Wesnoth lore and history, which is something that, as you also pointed out, ARL doesn't do. It could only be added as a one-off tale, and I suspect those may not be high on the queue. Truth to be told, I neither planned for nor expected ARL to go mainline, but hoped that it would nevertheless be accessible to players like you and me who appreciate a nice story to go with their battles.

There are a few things that are still happening which will hopefully add to the experience, and in that respect you can already provide me with some constructive feedback that I would be very glad to receive. The things in development are mostly art and the storyline additions that stem out of it.
Spoiler:
Now, for the question. Do you think adding a few further bits of dialogue and interaction to certain scenarios would be beneficial or would it make the campaign too cluttered? I am honestly of two minds on this: on the one hand, I would like to add little details here and there; on the other, I'm afraid adding too much might hurt more than help.
Spoiler:
And, finally, for a more specific variation on this question: how did you find the little bits of dialogue between Fear and Loathing in scenario 11? Were they more amusing than annoying? I wasn't quite happy with the initial conversation they had and revised it for version 1.0.7, but am still a bit unsure. I would like to keep something in, also because I really like the mirror effect of the lovely Valkier's portrait, but am not averse to some serious rethink if needed.

Once again, many thanks for the kind words!
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xbriannova
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.7

Post by xbriannova »

Hey Jacques old buddy, you remember me? It's me! Octavius! I've changed accounts! :)

Anyway, I've played your campaign again and I can see that it's been well maintained. You still is fiendishly difficult though. I had to quit early into the campaign, somwhere in the third or fourth battle. Before that, I lost many times haha on Normal mode. It is quite a challenge, but at times I felt that it can be too much of a challenge. I don't wanna resolve to playing Easy mode. :)

I have yet to explore the later parts of the campaign and its changes because of this, but it's nothing bad! Maybe I'm a poor player?
Current Projects:

UMC Campaign Guardian Order.
Main Campaign Thread: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26895
Art Thread: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 28&start=0
Jacques_Fol
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.7

Post by Jacques_Fol »

xbriannova wrote:Hey Jacques old buddy, you remember me? It's me! Octavius! I've changed accounts! :)
Greetings! Of course I remember you, you posted several helpful comments in the original campaign thread that was swallowed by the unfortunate forum meltdown last summer. Glad to see you're back and, as far as I can tell from your recent threads, full of creative energy.
xbriannova wrote:Anyway, I've played your campaign again and I can see that it's been well maintained. You still is fiendishly difficult though. I had to quit early into the campaign, somwhere in the third or fourth battle. Before that, I lost many times haha on Normal mode. It is quite a challenge, but at times I felt that it can be too much of a challenge. I don't wanna resolve to playing Easy mode. :)

I have yet to explore the later parts of the campaign and its changes because of this, but it's nothing bad! Maybe I'm a poor player?
The campaign is not a very easy one, that much is true, and it's intended to require of the player some planning and/or strategic choices. At the same time, it should not be impossible for an experienced player to play through on Normal without too many difficulties, as long as the little hints dropped along the way and circumstances of individual scenarios are taken into account.
Here really be spoilers:
In any event, you may find more changes in the later scenarios, particularly in the fact that one of the endings has additional scenarios added. Hope you enjoy it to the end, and I'll be glad to hear what you think of it!
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xbriannova
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.7

Post by xbriannova »

Jacques_Fol wrote:
xbriannova wrote:Hey Jacques old buddy, you remember me? It's me! Octavius! I've changed accounts! :)
Greetings! Of course I remember you, you posted several helpful comments in the original campaign thread that was swallowed by the unfortunate forum meltdown last summer. Glad to see you're back and, as far as I can tell from your recent threads, full of creative energy.
xbriannova wrote:Anyway, I've played your campaign again and I can see that it's been well maintained. You still is fiendishly difficult though. I had to quit early into the campaign, somwhere in the third or fourth battle. Before that, I lost many times haha on Normal mode. It is quite a challenge, but at times I felt that it can be too much of a challenge. I don't wanna resolve to playing Easy mode. :)

I have yet to explore the later parts of the campaign and its changes because of this, but it's nothing bad! Maybe I'm a poor player?
The campaign is not a very easy one, that much is true, and it's intended to require of the player some planning and/or strategic choices. At the same time, it should not be impossible for an experienced player to play through on Normal without too many difficulties, as long as the little hints dropped along the way and circumstances of individual scenarios are taken into account.
Here really be spoilers:
In any event, you may find more changes in the later scenarios, particularly in the fact that one of the endings has additional scenarios added. Hope you enjoy it to the end, and I'll be glad to hear what you think of it!
Hmm thanks but no tips are needed :) I'm doing fine on my own. I just gotta get used to the play style in A rough life. I'm now in the middle of it. I guess I was just tired the last time I played it haha. By the way, the treasure ship island could still use alot of work... It's almost surely the same island I played on more than a year ago... But I'm sure you'd fix that won't you :) Although if you do need any help, I don't mind giving you a hand in mapping :)
Current Projects:

UMC Campaign Guardian Order.
Main Campaign Thread: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26895
Art Thread: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 28&start=0
Jacques_Fol
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.7

Post by Jacques_Fol »

xbriannova wrote:Hmm thanks but no tips are needed :) I'm doing fine on my own. I just gotta get used to the play style in A rough life. I'm now in the middle of it. I guess I was just tired the last time I played it haha.
Of course - but it is good to know that ARL does require some adjusting in terms of playing style.
xbriannova wrote:By the way, the treasure ship island could still use alot of work... It's almost surely the same island I played on more than a year ago... But I'm sure you'd fix that won't you :) Although if you do need any help, I don't mind giving you a hand in mapping :)
It is not exactly the same, as Turuk has already improved it some while he was maintaining the campaign. So, you can imagine that it was much worse when you first played it.

That said, that map:

- was the very first thing I ever did in my UMC creative capacity and started off as little more than a block of land on which to try coding, and

- betrays the fact that I am simply no good at mapping, so I won't even attempt to improve it.

With that in mind, I would of course be most happy to look at possible improvements, and your help would be most welcome. I remember you already offered back then, and what I said in the very first post of this thread still holds - as long as it doesn't require major coding changes or affects run of the play in negative ways, a better map will always be welcome!
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xbriannova
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.7

Post by xbriannova »

Jacques_Fol wrote:
xbriannova wrote:Hmm thanks but no tips are needed :) I'm doing fine on my own. I just gotta get used to the play style in A rough life. I'm now in the middle of it. I guess I was just tired the last time I played it haha.
Of course - but it is good to know that ARL does require some adjusting in terms of playing style.
xbriannova wrote:By the way, the treasure ship island could still use alot of work... It's almost surely the same island I played on more than a year ago... But I'm sure you'd fix that won't you :) Although if you do need any help, I don't mind giving you a hand in mapping :)
It is not exactly the same, as Turuk has already improved it some while he was maintaining the campaign. So, you can imagine that it was much worse when you first played it.

That said, that map:

- was the very first thing I ever did in my UMC creative capacity and started off as little more than a block of land on which to try coding, and

- betrays the fact that I am simply no good at mapping, so I won't even attempt to improve it.

With that in mind, I would of course be most happy to look at possible improvements, and your help would be most welcome. I remember you already offered back then, and what I said in the very first post of this thread still holds - as long as it doesn't require major coding changes or affects run of the play in negative ways, a better map will always be welcome!
Hmm... Yeah we all have weaknesses... I hate to admit it, but I am absolutely useless in visual arts and I'm only average in WML coding(And that seems to be an overstatement). That's why we help each other whenever we can. It doesn't even matter whether we're talented or not.

Hmm... I'll try to come up with something for you and I'll inform you once I have a fitting product that you can use... If I map for you, you won't need to change any coding except for most likely the coordinates. :D Expect something from me soon.

EDIT: Alright, I've managed to come up with something... I'll just let the map do the talking. I'll annotate as well...
Led_Astray 2. 1st Generation Led_Astray replacement map.
Led_Astray 2. 1st Generation Led_Astray replacement map.
Alright, here you are. I think you've gotta click the image to get the full-sized one. Anyway, the action takes place on the main island as you know. There are smaller ones around the island but these are meant to be entirely aesthetic and should mean nothing to the computer unless of course, you're on it. as you should notice by now, there's another huge landmass north-east of the island. That's the mainland, where everyone came from. There's some shallow waters connecting the island to the mainland, which explains why the peasants and farmers and Jacque's gang could reach it without commissioning vessels larger than a fishing boat.

I've tried to keep the island's dimensions right- 12 tiles wide and about 20 tiles long. The beaches around the island is not counted, and most likely will not be used by the player nor the computer as they would lower the defense rating of any units on them.

Also, my style is very different- this is both a good and a bad thing. In creating this map, I was trying to implement my style of mapping while respecting yours as well, so this may not work as its hard to strike a good balance between your style and mine. For example, my style tries to simulate realistic terrain, but one major disadvantage of my style is that it's hard to cramp realistic landscapes into such a small map. The rivers I tried to put are simply a little short... Hehe.

Problems of this map includes:

1)I think the island is a little squarish/rectangularish :lol2: .

2)The player might seek refuge on one of the smaller islands.

3)The player might try to swim across the channel between the island and the mainland :lol2: .

4)There might be some changes in the gameplay here, though I think this should be minimal as I tried to preserve the placement of forests, mountains, lakes and rivers.

What do you think? If you want, I could rework it :)
Current Projects:

UMC Campaign Guardian Order.
Main Campaign Thread: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26895
Art Thread: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 28&start=0
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