Civil War of Cunnicula

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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turin
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Post by turin » April 27th, 2006, 10:53 pm

The thing is, this storyline parallels that of the Spanish Civil War way too much for anyone who has knowledge of that time period to not realize that... I guess it is OK to have a blatantly political campaign, but I'm not a big fan of that sort of writing.

BTW, I'm not exactly pro-Franco, but I think he was better than the Republican government.
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Post by Casual User » April 28th, 2006, 1:47 am

Turin wrote:The thing is, this storyline parallels that of the Spanish Civil War way too much for anyone who has knowledge of that time period to not realize that...
Yes, and I really enjoyed that.

Of course this campaign is going to be more controversial than others, but that's not a bad thing in and of itself. Apart from which, parrallels to the real world give a campaign much more atmosphere than others (at least for me...).
kilder wrote:The legal government was, in fact, the republican one.
Indeed, but that wasn't a communist government either.

That was my whole point, that 'the Reds' were every bit as much rebels as 'the Whites', just different rebels, and I don't see why Malbo would side with either.

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Post by Mu » April 28th, 2006, 12:08 pm

Casual User wrote:Hi!

I've really enjoyed the part that is done (although I had to port it to 1.0 for it to work right).

I was wondering, though. It seems from the story that Malbo joins the reds. However, it seems to me like that doesn't make much sense.

He didn't join the whites because they were planning the armed overthrow of the system. But the reds are also planning an armed overthrow of the system since they want to change the system into a different one, hence their ambitions required an armed overthrow of the system as well...

It seems to me that Malbo belongs rather in a 3rd party, that would be the 'loyalists' i.e. military men that simply wish to keep the status quo.
Hello!

You are correct. Malbo is not a red, nor he wants to make a revolution. He follows a honor code and wants to stop the Uprising and return Cunnicula to its actual status.

Red ones also want to avoid the imperialists to take Cunnicula. This should justify an alliance.
Casual User wrote: P.S. What I know about the Spanish Revolution could hold in a thimble, but AFAIK, the group that ended up winning was rather the 'loyalists' I mentionned above. After all, Franco mainly just made himself dictator for about (ten? twenty?) years, then established a constitutional monarchy (i.e. basically got rid of 'special' groups and re-established the status quo).
Franco ruled Spain for forty years, until his death. He designer Juan Carlos his sucesor, but democracy was not supposed to be restored. Juan Carlos instaured the parlamentary monarchy, with the opposition of the Franquists.

Casual User wrote: P.P.S. Also, I had heard that troops were brought in from Morocco, but I know for a fact that Morocco was a French colony.
The bigger and richer part of Morocco was under French authority, but part of this land belonged to Spain.
Casual User wrote: P.P.P.S. Nice campaign. All the luck.
Thank you very much.

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Post by turin » April 28th, 2006, 1:52 pm

Mu wrote:Red ones also want to avoid the imperialists to take Cunnicula. This should justify an alliance.
Let's see...

Malbo wants to keep Cunnicula as it presently is.
The Reds want a communist revolution.
The imperialists want a fascist revolution.

Why exactly would Malbo ally with the communists instead of the imperialists? Both have the same reason for an alliance - they have a mutual enemy.
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Post by (S)elfish weirdo » April 28th, 2006, 6:03 pm

To me it would seem a simple matter of timing. The imperialists staged their revolution first, thus giving the communists the support of the government because they aren't openly opposing it... yet.

The idea behind the storyline of this campaign is interesting... unfortunanently the dialouge is horrible - not only are there spelling errors, but the worst problem is the fact that they seem to act like robots, only saying exactly what is necessary to transmit what they want. Maybe I could provide some help with the dialouge? I do consider myself to have a decent understanding of both communist and fascist reasoning.
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Post by Casual User » April 29th, 2006, 3:01 am

(S)elfish Weirdo wrote:The imperialists staged their revolution first, thus giving the communists the support of the government because they aren't openly opposing it... yet.
According to the intro, both sides were quite ... militant way before any revolution started. The government would have clearly seen both parties as a threat.
Mu wrote:Red ones also want to avoid the imperialists to take Cunnicula. This should justify an alliance.
Maybe, maybe not. Turin's got a point...

Here's an idea for the far future:

Once you'll be reasonably happy with the campaign, how about creating a split.

As I see it, Malbo basically fights on the Loyalist side until it becomes clear the loyalist side has no chance and he needs to choose a side, and that is when he decides to side with the Reds.

How about if you made a split there, and allowed the player to choose whether to ally with the Reds or the Whites, or maybe even to try and win without allying with either...

In any case, that is really an idea for the far future. All the best for the campaign, I've really enjoyed the part that is done.

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Post by (S)elfish weirdo » April 29th, 2006, 8:52 am

Casual User wrote:
(S)elfish Weirdo wrote:The imperialists staged their revolution first, thus giving the communists the support of the government because they aren't openly opposing it... yet.
According to the intro, both sides were quite ... militant way before any revolution started. The government would have clearly seen both parties as a threat.
Of course it would, but that's fairly irrelevant when it doesn't have enough loyal troops to hold back either of them alone. The whites are the only ones who are openly against the government, and the government is pretty much forced to ally - or at least avoid opposing - the reds if it wants to keep existing.
Casual User wrote:
Mu wrote:Red ones also want to avoid the imperialists to take Cunnicula. This should justify an alliance.
Maybe, maybe not. Turin's got a point...

Here's an idea for the far future:

Once you'll be reasonably happy with the campaign, how about creating a split.

As I see it, Malbo basically fights on the Loyalist side until it becomes clear the loyalist side has no chance and he needs to choose a side, and that is when he decides to side with the Reds.

How about if you made a split there, and allowed the player to choose whether to ally with the Reds or the Whites, or maybe even to try and win without allying with either...

In any case, that is really an idea for the far future. All the best for the campaign, I've really enjoyed the part that is done.
A split is most defentivily a good idea, giving us opportunity to portray alot more of the seperate faction's agendas.

What I find intruiging about this campaign is that it isn't your old boring Good vs Evil plot... Everything is shades of gray. The reds have everything ranging from idealists wanting to create a society where no one has to suffer to unscrupulous, manipulative bastards, who only see communism as a way to achieve power. The whites have everything ranging from outright Fascists wanting only to rule and religious zealots wanting to kill any who disagree with them to innocent peasents who just want to live peacefully and follow their traditions. If you ask me, we should add a good mix of corrupt officials and bureaucrats to the government along with idealists and visionaries.

This campaign has some serious potential storylinewise if the dialouge is fixed up.
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Post by Mu » April 29th, 2006, 9:11 am

The thing is like that:

* Loyals want Cunnicula to remain as they is.
* Reds want to make a revolution.
* Imperials want to make a very diferente revolution.
* Reds and Imperials hates each other with fury.

Then:

1. Imperials start their revolt.
2. Reds want to stop it at any prize.
3. Loyals are not strong enough to stop the Uprising (in the future you will see why).

It is very dangerous for loyals to ally with reds, but they have no choice if they want to win the war.

You must have some kind of adivination powers :)
I want to note that Malbo, at the point of the final scenario, is supporting the regular army of Cunnicula (loyals), and have nothing with red ones.


NOTE: imperials, loyals and red ones (and white ones), are the terms in the fantastic land of Cunnicula, I don't want to confuse nobody.
Last edited by Mu on April 29th, 2006, 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Flamma » April 29th, 2006, 9:24 am

Hi. Thanks everybody for the ammount of feedback we are receiving.

When the Uprising happens, the army of Cunnicula is dramatically divided. A part, worried to the lost of traditional values, will join the uprising, while the rest will support the loyal government which is a democracy (by medieval standards). It doesn't seem that things will go fine for cunniculans.

The rebels, at the beginning a little inferior in numbers, will receive the help of dark forces. That will umbalance the war, and put the rebels in a clear supperior position, with greater forces and resources.

External aid for the legitimate side seems, for the moment, uncertain.

Hating more the rebels than the current system, the Red ones will join the loyal army for the restauration. Anyway, red desire for a further revolution, will bring some problems to the loyal side (excuse me for the words redundancies).

Malbo is a loyal soldier. He belongs to a military family, and he values over all things his Oath of Fealty on the government that the people of Cunnicula have elected. For Malbo, this honour is all he is. He doesn't even think of join the rebels, as he will feel it as attacking himself.

When war progress, things won't be as easy for Malbo, as at a given time it will be difficult to know what he is fighting for.

Anyway, in the published part of the campaign, Malbo has made very little contact with the Red ones.

I think a campaign split is not on the agenda. We have thought the possibility of give the player a chance for switching sides, but it would be only for one scenario. It is not the story we wanted to tell. Anyway, the work is GPL, and anyone can tell the story of a "white hero", but we will prefer that he wasn't Malbo.

Maybe someday we will make a site explaining further all this things.

I'm very sorry about "Selfish Weirdo" dislikes of dialogues. I feel that campaigns in which you have to read a lot a little boring (specially if it isn't written on your native language). Also, characters have a lot of information to say, as political situation of Cunnicula is complex. So, saying a lot of things in few words, possibly make the "robot effect" you referred.

Of course, any help is welcome. We will accept any dialogue suggestion, but please, avoid large large dialogues.

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Post by Mu » April 29th, 2006, 9:37 am

What if Malbo joined the Imperalist Force?

It is very difficult, but not imposible. Something big must happen and must impact Mablo a lot. Maybe the reds kill a lot of civil white people while the loyals look to other side, or maybe he has to rescue a friend aligned to the imperials, and is declared traitor by the loyals.

In any case, he should abandon the loyal force, since it is still fighting the rebellion.

We have a very huge lot of work until we finish this campaign, and we are making it slowly, so we don't plan to make this split.

As Lord Ork (coauthor of this campaign) has explained, Cunnicula is open to everybody. As author, though we present this greys that telled werido, we have taken party for one side. But we have no problem with anyone make a campaign about Cunnicula from another viewpoint. We only ask for respecting the objectives points of this setting: geography, govern structures, and basic storyline.

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Post by Mu » April 29th, 2006, 9:53 am

(S)elfish weirdo wrote:the dialouge is horrible - not only are there spelling errors, but the worst problem is the fact that they seem to act like robots, only saying exactly what is necessary to transmit what they want. Maybe I could provide some help with the dialouge? I do consider myself to have a decent understanding of both communist and fascist reasoning.
We know the dialog is very bad, and yes, we are accepting help. In fact, the text in the first scenario is the one Sipahi sent me as correction.

It would be very nice if you helped us (if you can), specially in the next chapter, where communist and fascist retoric will appear. But, as Lord Ork/Flamma said, we'll try to have not too long dialogs.

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Post by toms » May 27th, 2006, 10:35 am

You wrote in the changelog that I need to kill 30 saurians. I played the scenario and I only killed 25 to win. You probably did not change the if statement.
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