[Complete] TOURNAMENT: King of the Frontier!

[Demogorgon]

Vote for 3, meaning Kolbur. It seems logical, especially because the matches against neki have already been played and ended 'brutal'.
I'd be ready to play game 1 right away btw.

[soul_steven]

Vote 3 as well, only logical solution

[neki]

Match history between me and Kolbur is an unfair solution!!! THIS WAS NEVER discussed as a criteria. THE ONLY DISCUSSED CRITERIA were brutal wins, losses. Just a small parenthesis regarding this rule would not actually solve things: I beat TBS, TBS beat Kolbur, Kolbur beat me!!! So I don't want to hear anything about this argument, the tournament admin long agreed the tie break criteria will be BRUTAL WINS, LOSSES.

Now, since this criteria wasn't clear from the beginning and no one even bothered about it (only I did):

1) the highest brutal wins goes on and in case of tie, lowest number of brutal losses (neki goes on)
2) the highest brutal wins minus losses difference goes on (Kolbur goes on)
3) I don't have absolutely anything against TBS joining the battle for advancement, should other criteria be taken into account, actually I prefer TBS going on than you, Kolbur

the only fair solution is a tie-break confrontation. We already have me and Dauntless voting for that, I believe a decision should be unanimous (all against me) if we are to build up rules at the end of the tournament, when none of you guys even bothered to comment on my tie-break ideas at the beginning of the tournament (only Doc did).

I think we should not argue about whether there should be a tie-break match or not, I think we should argue what the conditions of that tie-break match should be! Well, all against me said we should have played all games, no matter the outcome and then there would have not been any problems! Agreed, but it didn't happen this way!!! So please do not bring this argument anymore also. It didn't happen this way, conditions were unclear, therefore a manly wesnoth match should clear the air!!!

Kolbur, why are you so scared ? If you 2-0ed me so easily like you say you did, you should have no problem in beating me again, right ? I sense fear, desperation, sadness... Let politicians make up rules and criteria at the end of a tournament and let manly Wesnoth players fight for their right to advance in the KOTF! Can we have a cheer for less talk and more fighting ?

[Doc Paterson]

3. Decide based on a ratio of brutal wins to brutal losses (will likely achieve results close to choice #1).

This is how I always interpreted neki's scribbling in the most logical way.

That is also how I interpreted it, that in the case of ties, we look to brutal wins/brutal losses as a "record within a record." I thought that this was exactly what neki meant, but I guess I was wrong. Nevertheless, it was not my job to read neki's mind- What I have to do is interpret the rules as I saw them.

I came into this tournament with the assumption that because we all knew each other pretty well, and all seemed to be reasonable people, that we could settle any non-defined "conflicts" democratically, and with little drama. This is not how I ran the TOCs, where basically every little possibility was spelled out. I envisioned this one as having a lighter atmosphere, what with the balance of the maps being less than concrete. I suppose this is a lesson learned, and in the future, I'll double my efforts to define all of the possibilities, before the matches begin.


Let's get a few more votes, but I'm leaning towards #3 (like several others) because, as I said:

-I can't have read neki's mind, and thought that "deciding by brutal wins/brutal losses" meant deciding by a secondary record; that internal win percentage. Apparently this is not what he meant, but I guess he should have been clearer as well.

[Huumy]

So I am 1-1 with Cremember I just play the final game with soul_steven, right?
I'll be logging in much more this week.

Edit: I can't believe I actually have a chance to advance

Second edit: This is my argument what to do with the 3(4?) - way tie

Any ties will be resolved by a single match, played on one of the four maps. If the tie-breaking players cannot agree on a map, one of the four will be randomly chosen for them.)

So I vote for number 4. because there were no mention of this situation in the rules I think playing more games to decide who wins is the fairest option.
Tho I'm not in the tie situation so if every1 agrees and it's easier just count the win percentage. Just my 5 cents.

[Oook]

Huumy - given I won my match with soul_steven, I think you're certain to go through already, no matter what metric is used for tie breaking. Congratulations

With regards to that, I agree it should be wins / loses ratio, as a reflection of overall performance. Doing it purely on number of 2-0 wins seems pretty arbitrary.

[Doc Paterson]

So I am 1-1 with Cremember I just play the final game with soul_steven, right?

Correct.

[neki]

Ok, ok, Kolbur can advance further! Good luck, Kolbur!

[Doc Paterson]

Ok, ok, Kolbur can advance further! Good luck, Kolbur!

Excellent. I'm glad that this could be resolved peacefully. In compensation for the hassle of this poorly defined situation, I've decided to include you and TBS on the "prize list."

And about prizes:

What I'm going to do is this:

First and second place (in that order) may suggest a way in which their names (or made-up names, or ideas) can be incorporated into an official multiplayer map. I'll grant their requests, within reason. Renaming maps is off-limits, with the exception of the new Hornshark, which I'll allow, if the name is cool enough. Examples of grantable suggestions:

-Name a statue on Caves of the Basilisk after me!
-Work me into the story in a map description!
-Name a unit on the new Hornshark after me!
-Name a unit on the new Hornshark Grumblumugrphrrble the First!

(And so on, and so forth. Feel free to suggest other things.)

Neki and TBS: I'll let each of you name an unnamed unit on the New Hornshark, after first, second, third and fourth place have chosen their prizes. Neki, because you already "won" a unit and named it Neki, you'll have to think of a non-Neki name. Let's not worry about that until the tournament ends though.

[Kolbur]

So how do we go on now? Demogorgon already asked me to play the first game of round 2. Do we want to discuss the map balance and probably make according changes to the maps before we start round 2 or only after the tournament is finished?

[Doc Paterson]

So how do we go on now? Demogorgon already asked me to play the first game of round 2. Do we want to discuss the map balance and probably make according changes to the maps before we start round 2 or only after the tournament is finished?

I want to do that now, before round 2, though I think the only one that really needs it is TSG. I've done a few edits already, and I'm about to start a conversation on it in the Bold New Maps thread, so check that out and share your thoughts.

[Kolbur]

Here are my games v soul_steven. Both were interesting games, and could easily have gone the other way at times.

These replays don't work for me. I only get a neverending change of the day/night cycle. Anyone else has this problem? Can you remember what factions played (p1/p2) and which one won?

Edit: Also I couldn't find the replay for game 1 of Dauntless vs neki. Factions, p1/p2, winning side?

[The Black Sword]

Heh, well I don't think I had any claim on second place but the gesture is much appreciated doc .
The Black Sword should be pretty simple to fit into a name too .

[Oook]

Kolbur: sorry the files didn't work, not sure why - they open fine for me. I think these are the server replays:

http://replays.wesnoth.org/1.8/20110426 ... _(1028).gz

http://replays.wesnoth.org/1.8/20110501 ... _(5843).gz

First game was soul_steven's Knalgans P1 v my UD P2.
Second game was soul_steven's Northies P1 v my Elves P2

[Doc Paterson]

I've just finished the TSG update: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... 75#p488175