[Complete] The GRAND TAG! - a 2vs2 Tournament, 2nd Edition

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Rigor
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Re: The GRAND TAG! - a 2vs2 Tournament, 2nd Edition

Post by Rigor »

i talked to noy on ur behalf because i know how emotional u can get but u only made and still make it worse. cant u just shut ur trap and hold ur emotions in check the next time? really. :augh: after 3 weeks its over so be happy ur ban is only for this time. cold turkey might trigger a very productive phase in ur life, njoy! :whistle:

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neki
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Re: The GRAND TAG! - a 2vs2 Tournament, 2nd Edition

Post by neki »

@grywacz:

Calling Noy4 ARROGANT in a PRIVATE conversation should not have any consequence according to the freedom of speech, which I believe is a universal value, no matter if you are a developer or a simple wesnoth player or coming from Europe, US or China.

Secondly, the person that applies the punishment should bring forward the evidence! I just don't walk over you into your house, grab you and throw you in jail because I consider you guilty of a crime, I must first prove you are guilty in a trial then apply the punishment.

Noy4 should have talked to another neutral developer (policemen, how u like to call it) show him the conversation and take action against me, warning or ban. But he just does how he pleases, based on his personal disliking of me. This is referred in the law of certain countries - if you like to continue the analogy - as a hate crime and it has double the consequences for the one that does it.

Just think, grywacz, is the fact that he doesn't like me enough to ban me, just because of PRIVATELY calling him arrogant (not a bad, demeaning, insulting word, only a factual attribute) ? You may not like me either, but is this in itself a just reason for a ban ?!

I take responsibility for everything I say, but who checks Noy4 for his abusive behavior ? Now I know what he is going to do, ban me also from forums, because that's how people like him understand to kill ideas - with the axe, not with counter ideas. That is exactly how dictators act and that is exactly how he should be called.

Don't u have some sort of a developer council to discuss such problems and make justice ? You just leave this job to single individuals like Noy4 that abuse their power ? You know this ban means I will not be able to participate in the TGT Finals and the KOTF (1v1 tournament started by Doc) so it's serious.

I believe that my contribution to the community is equally important to that of a developer's and to that of each other Wesnoth player's and therefore I should not be discriminated based on the fact that he is a developer and I am not.

It is people like Noy4 that destroy the great community that this game has and it's people like Noy4 that push me away from this great game forever.

@Rigor:

Thanks, Rigor, I appreciate it, but that's not how u should talk to Noy4, in a begging, pitiful manner, because I did nothing wrong, I privately called him an arrogant and by all means he actually is so. Nothing hurts people more than the truth and I can perfectly understand that Noy4 is very hurt right now.

He is the one that applied the ban, he should explain why he did it. I would love to see a Noy4 reply explaining himself, that will make my day and I will happily accept the ban, But he is so arrogant, that he will not even post a public reply on my posts, because he has no case. He even lied about previously warning me before when I asked him for the reason of the ban. We had only one controversial conversation today, during which I called him arrogant and he first warned me TODAY and 1 second later 3 weeks ban, call that a warning.

Noy4 has so much power that he even doesn't need to give a public explanation of why he banned me, although I request it and it is my right to publicly know the reason! Noy4, be a man and say why u banned me!

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Gambit
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Re: The GRAND TAG! - a 2vs2 Tournament, 2nd Edition

Post by Gambit »

Hello neki.

1. Your ban is not just Noy4. It is backed up by a consensus of many other developers. From what I hear you've been pretty abusive to a lot of people.
2. I feel I should point out that you have no rights. This is a private forum. That was a private multiplayer server. It all belongs to Wesnoth. You don't have a right to freedom of speech. You don't have a right to play on the server. You certainly don't have the right to continue to interrupt this good thread with your dirty laundry.
3. If you want to let your tournament partner know that you got yourself banned and can't finish, that's one thing. But trying to start a public fight over it is something I'm not going to allow. Public discussion of this issue is over. Take it to private messages.

edit: Repost those same snide remarks about our moderators again and your little prophecy about being banned from the forums will come true.

elido
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Re: The GRAND TAG! - a 2vs2 Tournament, 2nd Edition

Post by elido »

Great 1st game for the finals, keep'em coming.

(next comments are tied to some discussion around)
Is this thing on?...
1) Neki, i understand your point (and not only me, but several players also, but is not the thread to expose your case)
2) Bad gambit from the Gambit (Wesnoth is... are all the players/developers/admins; and we all coexists). I'm not sure your place on the chain, (i'm sure of mine), but those words u said, are really strong, and may ofend many players, not only Neki (any player that reads the your comment).

Let the thread be only to support this unique event

Ps. I'll try to see the finals (2 game), on server (main), or server 2, or on any server dedicated for that purpose, all i care is to see good games.

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neki
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Re: The GRAND TAG! - a 2vs2 Tournament, 2nd Edition

Post by neki »

He he, it seems I am banned from the forums too. I cannot say anything, cause Gambit keeps deleting it. For those of you interested in those deleted comments go to my channel on Monday night GMT, 21th of March.

Anyways, considering my newly acquired outlaw status, I propose the TGT Finals of Freedom on the Alternative Wesnoth Server 2, it seems I am not banned from there.

Should I be banned from there too, I would like to kindly ask you guys for your support (Daunty, plk2 and Nordmann) and make a Computer to Computer FINALS with a cast on my channel afterwards so the observers can enjoy it too in a way.

For all the TGT enthusiasts out there, if you support the cause of freedom of speech as a universal value, please drop by on Server 2 on Friday 25th of March at 18:00 GMT and give a cheer for the 4 ALTERNATIVE FINALISTS.

You've been great guys so far, announcing the FINALS on the main server (special thanks to Faello, grzywacz and deeekay), making those spicy invitations on the main forum instead of the Private Messages, making all those cool, image aided post match battle reports and the list could go on. I am asking all you TGT enthusiasts out there to help me continue with the finals although I have been banned from the official server.

To all of you out there that support this cause a big thank you!

P.S: Gambit, I am really not trying to step on your toes, I just really want to get this message through so if you need to delete this one too, cause it contains inappropriate stuff according to forum standards or whatever... please mark the parts you don't like and that I should edit (cut them with a line or something like that, I am really tired and would like to go to sleep now, I am even too tired for fighting for the ideas that seem to bother you anymore) Thanks!

EDIT: @elido Thanks man, it's guys like you that make me play Wesnoth on!

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Faello
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Re: The GRAND TAG! - a 2vs2 Tournament, 2nd Edition

Post by Faello »

As a person that is actually educated to act objectively, I've my personal opinion about the level of the official game server moderation but this thread is not the place to discuss this matter.

Regarding the second final game - I think it could be played on the alternative server, you'll just have to announce the game manually on the official server.
Gambit wrote:You don't have a right to freedom of speech.
Don't get me wrong Gambit, but last time I checked, general acts like constitution & ratified international treaties > forum rules & mods/admins decisions (wesnoth or any other :wink: )

Anyway, let it be the last post about it ppl, plz try to stay on the topic - TGT! :)
The yellow jester does not play
but gently pulls the strings
and smiles as the puppets dance
in the court of the Crimson King.

sidzej
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Re: The GRAND TAG! - a 2vs2 Tournament, 2nd Edition

Post by sidzej »

Goesh, The Tournament is going to the Underground! So cool! ^-_-^

Let the aura of Darkness and the Spirit of The Evil be inside your every brutal move, The Mighty Finalist, who managed to defeat The Followers of The Kross during the TGT journey.

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Rigor
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Re: The GRAND TAG! - a 2vs2 Tournament, 2nd Edition

Post by Rigor »

seriously i cant understand the point of the whole discussion. noy4 seems to be sensitive to these kind of things, yet u challenge him for a game and after he declined with a snappy remark u lose it and call him arrogant - maybe he just didnt want to play against u. i could understand that very well, nobody wants to spend their limited leisure time with people they dont like! cant u understand that neki? i can understand ur frustration that he has the upper hand with his privilege to ban others and in my opinion it is laughable to be banned for something like that (lets put it that way: i KNOW what exactely u said, and what happened during our game and who might have been the guy who said even more trash). u have the tendency to go overboard more often than ur peers and this is equally childish.

about being unable to say what i think or this private forum being autocratic: its clear u can delete posts religious/sexual/and bad things to avoid lengthy disucssions, kick spammers, or remove stuff that doesnt really belong here. but what u said was a repugnant statement. i hope u dont mean it, i would like to keep up my good faith in having good admins that dont delete stuff for nothing.

that being said i think both of u manage to considerately spoil the fun that the TGT provides if u dont calm down a little - cant u just ignore each other from now on? that would be the best solution i think. would that hurt anybody? no. if neki annoys anybody else, he can be put on the personal ignore list and thats it. asking the other way round: does anybody like this hackish solution for the finals u proposed? nobody can observe the final game - what an embarrassment for the whole community! elido and faello are certainly right with their comments on the forum. we all think so. coexistence > personal feelings.

i think u can answer the question to urselves. my suggestion since i heard both parties: neki he has done a good job with promoting wesnoth to a larger audience on youtube, offering his very overboarding emotional opinions on many things including map balance, faction balance, and strategy and tactics. many of us like to see him play with his exaggerated luck-blame lamentations, reading all his trash-talk and cheers during games and i would be personally really disappointed if u let ur rivalry/antipathy/ego stand in the way for all of us to see more of that. (imagine u r looking for wesnoth on the internet and find a video where the long-time players quarrel, that wouldnt really serve our purpose, would it?). dont make a mountain out of a molehill, ignore each other and everybody is happy.

as for the tournament i hope it will take place as usual and we can see the *maybe* final game live.
will u play clash? i am so sick of xanthe games already!!!

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neki
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Re: The GRAND TAG! - a 2vs2 Tournament, 2nd Edition

Post by neki »

@Rigor:

Wise words you say there Rigor and I am totally ok with ignoring Noy4, I have absolutely nothing against him. I made a match invitation in my enthusiastic friendly way, he responded in a cool and provocative manner: "not with you" and I therefore called him arrogant in a civilized manner. Good enough to go on his ignore list, but not on the public server ban, in my opinion.

However, my opinion seems not to matter, as he has the power and this post will probably be deleted although it is an objective reply to your post, Rigor. I am ok for peace and ignoring Noy4 forever, but he doesn't even bother to provide a single reply, he just banned me cause he can, end of story.

Therefore I am kindly asking you, the crowd and all other TGT enthusiasts out there to make an Underground TGT Finals of Freedom, since I have been banned from the official server. Should I be banned from the other 2 servers too, I suggest we take it even more Underground on a Computer to Computer match with a post-cast, but anyways the TGT must go on.

@sidzej:

That's the spirit, sidzej! Can we all have a cheer for an Undergorund TGT Finals of Freedom ? :)

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Dunno
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Re: The GRAND TAG! - a 2vs2 Tournament, 2nd Edition

Post by Dunno »

Neki, you talk about it like it is a rebellion of some kind. The way I see it- it's (that 's stands for is or was, whichever it is now) just a 3 weeks ban. No one will prevent you from believing it was unjustified, but just live with it, and think over some things. 3 weeks isn't that long! If anyone cares to hear my opinion, TGT Finals can be delayed and played on official server after those 3 weeks. Let's not act childish and talk about "freedom" or "underground", those terms are (imho) reserved for real life. No one has killed you yet, just play something else or spend more time with friends. Anyway, to stick with the thread, I vote for 3-weeks delay of Finals. Thanks.
Oh, I'm sorry, did I break your concentration?

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Gambit
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Re: The GRAND TAG! - a 2vs2 Tournament, 2nd Edition

Post by Gambit »

Oi oi. Private messages people. It's very simple: If you have problems with a ban from the MP server, you PM the MP mods. If you have problems with noy, you PM him. If you have problems with the way I handled this thread, you can PM me. If you have problems with forum policy you can PM forum moderators and administrators. If you have problems with each other, you PM each other.

This thread right here though, is about the tournament. I won't say it again.

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neki
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Re: The GRAND TAG! - a 2vs2 Tournament, 2nd Edition

Post by neki »

Gambit wrote:This thread right here though, is about the tournament. I won't say it again.
Hey guys, Gambit is right! That's why I moved the conversation to this civilized and objective forum thread:

http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=33359

Hope it does not get deleted, because it's a sincere and objective effort to help develop our community!

Dauntless
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Re: The GRAND TAG! - a 2vs2 Tournament, 2nd Edition

Post by Dauntless »

I thank Gambit for his summary, i couldnt say it better.
So briefly:
1) Neki, shut up already. You might have a point at some places, but i believe you are wrong at most, ill be happy to talk it over with you in private.
2) Your considered rebellion with AI is crap, your call for aid is insane. Me, rigor and some other people tried to sort it out for you with Noy, but you keep undermining our efforts.

Now to the game

Supposing that you are able to access server 2 and 3, I propose to play game n.2 at the same time as planned, that is FRIDAY 18 pm GMT on server 2.
Please pm me and North+South if you can still access it. After i hear your response and N+S response, if they still count with that time, we can officially re-announce the time for the others in this thread.

Thats about it, I hope this thread really stays TGT related from now on :)

Cheers

Dauntless

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Dunno
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Re: The GRAND TAG! - a 2vs2 Tournament, 2nd Edition

Post by Dunno »

something on-topic for a change: I admire RNG's teamplay in recent final. It just shows how powerful drakes get when mixed with some meat like spearmen. Neki didn't lose a single unit for a very long period of time! And that amazing augur, it healed so much hp! I remember all those labels "here", "spear", "aug", "unit"... your team chat log must be very interesting. I think that was the best team play I have ever seen (not like I saw a lot of games, but still)
Oh, I'm sorry, did I break your concentration?

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Zaroth
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Re: The GRAND TAG! - a 2vs2 Tournament, 2nd Edition

Post by Zaroth »

@Dunno
Yeah! I might have already said that in the commentary during the game, but the teamwork was so amazing that it's definitely worth restating here!
Aaaah, after seeing that game I started wishing that there was a 2v2 Wesnoth ladder as well, so I can start improving my skills there as well ;-) (as I recently found out, ladder system is quite good at motivating me to play)

And regarding the plethora of labels - now it seems a little shameful that after fixing this feature request in 1.9.5 we won't be able to peek under the hood of such teamwork again...
Last edited by Zaroth on March 21st, 2011, 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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