Query about "Ulfserker"

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Iris
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Re: Query about "Ulfserker"

Post by Iris »

Moved to Translations & i18n.
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Crow_T
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Re: Query about "Ulfserker"

Post by Crow_T »

Instead of doing a literal translation, which although cool in it's roots doesn't come to mind for most, I would stick to an idea that a berserker is thought of a wild fighter that goes in with maniacal and reckless abandon, and uldserker is just a level apart from that. Maybe there are some characters in Chinese lore that fit the bill?
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Re: Query about "Ulfserker"

Post by AxalaraFlame »

I don't know a word in Chinese, but isn't it sometimes better not to translate but to take the sounds and introduce the concept? Khalifate names do much better in Arabic than with generic "Khalifate archer, Khalifate swordsman, Khalifate mounted archer" description. For Berserker I find http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%8B%82% ... 0%E5%A3%AB - why not emulate them?
Thank you @taptap. But chinese wiki really sucks. It hardly provide valunable information. Thank you anyway :)
Anyway, you cannot ask it on Chinese Forum here?: http://www.wesnoth.cn/
I guess you can get a better Chinese name there more than asking it here
Mr. @SkyOne: Thank you. The wesnoth.cn forum requires all users to post trash posts in a certain "Garbage Bin Forum" to accumulate enough credits to post in other forums. It is the forum culture in China, don't be surprised. :) I don't like it; instead, I build another forum in TiebaBaidu, and honestly we don't have great translators who know much Norse culture and their words. Thank you. :wink:

And thank you @TheScribe. Also, I see Espreon says this. It seems that the oringinal spelling aslo have some problems:
yeah, I dislike the spelling “ulfserker”... since it is, in reality, erroneous
Instead, he name them as "ulfserkir"(or ulfserkr) and "berserkr". Is that the real and righteous name of them? If right, should it be fixed in the next version?


And still I dunno how to pronunce "ulfserkr"; I suppose it should be [Λlfә' sә kr]. Anyone know this?
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Re: Query about "Ulfserker"

Post by Espreon »

AxalaraFlame wrote: Instead, he name them as "ulfserkir"(or ulfserkr) and "berserkr". Is that the real and righteous name of them? If right, should it be fixed in the next version?
Ulfserkr is singular; ulfserkir is plural. Berserkr singular... berserkir plural. Berserker exists because of an anglicization based off of an incorrect analysis of the word-final r in berserkr (a correct anglicization would be berserk, which is an accepted alternative spelling, I believe). Berserker has been around so long enough (and regarded as correct long enough... and by enough people) that most don’t know that it is, in reality, erroneous, thus it is accepted as correct. So, I doubt they will ever be changed in Wesnoth unless someone cares enough to change them.
And still I dunno how to pronunce "ulfserkr"; I suppose it should be [Λlfә' sә kr]. Anyone know this?
I don’t know if any native English speakers actually realize /ʌ/ as [ʌ]. I was told that “ʌ” is just used in English (broad) transcriptions to represent stressed schwa, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some speakers actually realize /ʌ/ as [ʌ]; sadly, I really don’t know about this. Now, pretending stress doesn’t exist (and ignoring the “/ʌ/ = stressed schwa” convention, of course), I would transcribe “ulfserkr” as /əlfsɜrkәr/... a little more narrowly as [əlfsɜrkr̩]... perhaps some pronounce it with /z/ instead of /s/, but who knows? I myself say it with /s/.
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Re: Query about "Ulfserker"

Post by TheScribe »

Instead, he name them as "ulfserkir"(or ulfserkr) and "berserkr". Is that the real and righteous name of them? If right, should it be fixed in the next version?
I personally don't think it should be changed, as you're not playing as Norse, you're playing as Dwarves. "Ulfserker" and "Berserker" are more easily understandable. (NOTE: just my opinion)
Sorta on a break from the forums ATM, have been for a while. If I was doing something for/with you and I haven't recently, that's why, I will be back soon hopefully.
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GunChleoc
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Re: Query about "Ulfserker"

Post by GunChleoc »

Since the -fs- in Ulfserk doesn't go well with Gaelic phonetics, I looked at the unit description. It says they are good with two blades, so I went with names that have "mow" or "scythe" in them for Berserker and Ulfserker.
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Re: Query about "Ulfserker"

Post by Dugi »

@dixie The berserkers carried spears, usually dual-wielded, and not battle-axes. Vikings didn't use battleaxes too much, they prefered swords.

The translations into languages I could comprehend enough to write about:
Polish, French, Russian, Ukrainian and Czech had just Ulferker/Berserker, they didn't even try to translate it
Slovak: Trpaslík Zurvalec/Zúrivec - means Dwarf Always-Furious-Guy, both
Serbian: Patul Bezglav/Lyudotrk (transcribed into normal letters) - means Dwarf Headless-Guy/Manslayer
Latin: Nanus Debacchans/Bacchans - means worshipper of a god of wine (?); probably his worshippers used to drink a lot and were rampant then

To sum up, berserker or ulfserker is usually translated as some person that is rampant, attacking without thought, lead only by his rage. I would try to find a noun describing an angry person in Chinese, if I spoke it.
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Re: Query about "Ulfserker"

Post by Drakefriend »

Dugi wrote: Latin: Nanus Debacchans/Bacchans - means worshipper of a god of wine (?); probably his worshippers used to drink a lot and were rampant then
Oh yes, Dionysos was far from just wine, he is, for example, closely attributed with extacy and madness - his most famous mythical worshippers are the Maenads, women who in extacy became feral and ripped enemies of the cult apart. And it indeed this would fit with the berserkir, who were considered the warriors of Odin.
So another possibility: name it after something associated with war, rage, madness or similar concepts.

The berserkir were possibly based on totemistic warrior rituals, that claimed to grant the might of the bear (or for an ulfserkr, of cause the wolf). possible with the help of drugs, trances or other ways that would override the normal failsafes.
You might therefore consider using totemic and mystic warrior traditions as a translation inspiration.
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Re: Query about "Ulfserker"

Post by Lanval »

For Latin, I'd think it more fitting if the term Gaesatii or maybe Volcigaesatii*; Literally "Spearmen"/"Wolfspearmen" in Gaulish, but in latin was used for a specific band of Mercenaries of Cisalpine Celts who fought in the Nude, which seems to match the relation that the Norse term "Ulfserkr" serves in English. http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/R ... .html#28.3.

It makes sense meanwhile that most European languages don't translate it since it's already foreign in English and Vikings occupy a similar place in most of their histories.

In general I think it's best to keep it foreign where possible and based off of soldiers with a reputation for fighting to the death in a blind rage.

To the earlier ChInese translation where it was translated as "Fearless-warriors", I'd go for Fearless Wolves or "Relentless Wolves" if that doesn't sound odd. Though I've heard of Buddhist warriors in the far east who earned a reputation for using meditation to overcome pain on the battlefield, this isn't from a scholarly source so this might not be a real thing. This might serve as a basis for a more localized equivalent if it isn't too obscure.

*It should be noted that I'm far from a fluent Latin speaker so I'm not entirely sure on how to latinize the words or their declensions. Volci is taken from "Volcae" which is known to refer to a tribal confederation that could be related to "Hawk" or "Wolf", with the latter holding connotations of "Errant Warrior", which I'm hoping I stemmed correctly into a compound. There's some dispute and Hawk seems a bit more probable to me, but it works alright in either way. This is mostly taken from the French and English wiki pages in their name.
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