Fire vs. Flameheart

[Jetrel]

The worse mistake ever made was bringing the drakes to multiplayer. I loved to play with them on single player when they were stronger than all other units the same level as them. But after they were brought to multiplayer they are needed to be weakened from time to time everytime someone says they are overpowered.

A comment to this, I, being the actual creator of the drakes find it interesting that you loved to play with them in single player before they got added to multiplayer; because they were actually used in multiplayer before they were ever in single player in the first place as I recall.

Yeah, neo's right - they were in multi long before ... was it madmax that made the first sp campaign featuring them?

IIRC, neo made them (of course), and Cédric added them into CVS and formed the stats.

[Neoriceisgood]

My first drakes were pretty darn bad, I totally screwed up their animation

btw, progress is going good on the animation frames for the level 4 fire drake.

[turin]

I think what he meant was that dragons=good, drakes=bad. So, when dragons were used in campaigns like TROW, it was good, but when drakes were added it was bad.

Or something like that.

PS: What reaction do you think I'd get if I started campaigning for the removal of drakes? Juts a question...

[Elvish_Pillager]

PS: What reaction do you think I'd get if I started campaigning for the removal of drakes? Juts a question...

Four groups:

1) The old timers who liked Drakes, who will say "No no turin stop beating an old rotting dead horse corpse to death",
2) The old timers who didn't, who will say either "I support you as always" or "come on there's no point trying",
3) The noobs who like Drakes, who will say "NOOO how can u remove Drakes? They r like so cool"
4) Recently joining sensible people, who will say "What would be the purpose of removing them?"

The third and fourth are about equally sized, each outnumbering the first two combined. The first will greatly outnumber the second, because there are few enough old timers left that the two who actually left the community because of the Drakes makes a real difference.

So your only hope is to thoroughly convince group 4 to support you. If you do, then anti-Drake sentiments will cause a new flamewar between groups 3 and 4 (if the mods don't stop it soon enough), 1 and 2 being to small to take a large role in the engagement. Group 4 will win of course, because in the extreme case the group 3 members will be the ones to get banned. The devs, although mainly Drake supporters, may be convinced by the entirety of group 4.

If that's your object, you'll need really good rhetoric. And talking about unbalance, or dislike of them, will not do you any good, either. At least half of group 4 has played Drakes, enjoyed it moderately, and doesn't feel that they're particularly unbalanced. If you think unbalance can convince them, Noy will either rant about there not being a balance problem and get plenty on his side, or fix it (the problem.)

Your best hope is probably to get them kicked out of Default. Probably the best technique is to combine the HttT-like-ness argument with a substantial claim at unbalance and an offer of an era rearrangement that leaves the Drakes where they could be played in their current form.

[turin]

Thing is, I probably side with group 2 at this point, in that there is "there's no point in trying".

[Neoriceisgood]

You two make me very sad, why must you always do this!

[Tippsey]

Hmmm becausesome people can't stand change meh even if the change happened long ago...

[Jetrel]

Seriously, what are you two going to be like when you are grumpy, curmudgeonous, old men? If you're doing this kind of stuff when you're teenagers...

[turin]

You two make me very sad, why must you always do this!

Because we detest drakes! It's nothing against you or your art, it's something against the basic idea behind the drakes. But don't worry, I'm resigned to the fact that they will never be removed.

Hmmm becausesome people can't stand change meh even if the change happened long ago...

Change is OK... I don't have a problem with, for example, the new elf images, the elvish lord becoming 2nd level and gaining an advancement, his losing fire and gaining cold, the new campaign server, etc... I have a problem with bad stuff, regardless of whether it was ever part of a change or not. If I had found Wesnoth after the drakes were added, and thus were forced to consider them part of the canon, I would still have found them stupid and wanted them to be removed...

Seriously, what are you two going to be like when you are grumpy, curmudgeonous, old men? If you're doing this kind of stuff when you're teenagers...

Obviously, we'll be exactly like normal teenagers.

[Elvish_Pillager]

Seriously, what are you two going to be like when you are grumpy, curmudgeonous, old men? If you're doing this kind of stuff when you're teenagers...

Obviously the same thing I do now. I'm immortal, after all, and therefore pretty much unchanging.

[Ankka]

If I had found Wesnoth after the drakes were added, and thus were forced to consider them part of the canon, I would still have found them stupid and wanted them to be removed...

I still can't understand what is so wrong with drakes.

[xtifr]

Keep the drakes, get rid of the icky, smarmy, annoying elves, and (to keep Jetryl happy) add Ninjas!

[Cuyo Quiz]

High Elf Ninjas!, they have the skin bright enough.