Anyone remembers old artstyle?

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Mackus
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Anyone remembers old artstyle?

Post by Mackus »

I've been wondering is anyone else misses the old portraits style?
Because I really liked portraits the most as they were circa 0.9.1 - 1.3.0 versions of the game.
They were vaguely cartoony and manga-like, and honestly, I liked them better than current semi-realistic one. They gave game that unique atmosphere, which was why I kept playing after trying it for the first time.
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beetlenaut
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Re: Anyone remembers old artstyle?

Post by beetlenaut »

I think the new ones are a huge improvement.

However, old BfW versions are still available for download, so you could replace the current portraits with the old ones in your copy. It wouldn't hurt anything.
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Mackus
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Re: Anyone remembers old artstyle?

Post by Mackus »

beetlenaut wrote:I think the new ones are a huge improvement.
Yeah, I figured majority likes the new ones. Especially developers, seeing its been them who updated them in the first place ;) . Its the matter of personal preference. I've been curious if anyone had similar impression.
beetlenaut wrote:However, old BfW versions are still available for download, so you could replace the current portraits with the old ones in your copy. It wouldn't hurt anything.
I guess there would be issue with transparent portraits, since those require specific versions of portrait. Though GIMP would probably suffice to make versions od portraits with transparent backgrounds.
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Vyncyn
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Re: Anyone remembers old artstyle?

Post by Vyncyn »

I miss them. Especially the old portrait in campains. The new ones are more realistic, but also kinda ugly. For example Malin from the DiD campain. The new artstyle is certainly more impressive, but Malin looks like a [censored] with his one blue eye and his stupid mustache. No offense to the artist though, like I said the art is impressive, I just prefer the old cartoonish versions.
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Re: Anyone remembers old artstyle?

Post by Addryn »

Yeah I kinda miss the old art, though the devs and artists have naturally worked hard on the new stuff, which is nice and very professional looking. I'm of a similar opinion as Vyncyn overall, its the campaigns where I miss it most, mainly when characters just don't look the same at all or look unfitting for the characters. The Delfador in Heir to the Throne on the other hand, that is very very nice (just felt like it needed stating, its really cool).
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zookeeper
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Re: Anyone remembers old artstyle?

Post by zookeeper »

For me, the only attraction of the old style was that they were much simpler and thus easier to make and modify, that was naturally a practical benefit. I don't really miss the style as such. Obviously kitty's and LordBob's style is superior in technical quality, but even aside that I do vastly prefer their character design style, too. I don't want Malin to be a cool pretty boy, I don't want Li'sar to have chainmail bikini and anorexia, and I do like having Haldric look a bit pompous and goofy and Harper clearly be a scruffy peasant. I'm not a fan of the cool hollywood hero types who all have perfect hair and the same body type, and not a single pox mark on their supposedly-medieval face. As far as I can tell, the new portraits portray a pretty impressive range of different personalities and physical attributes and even many of the main characters don't fall into any of the standard tropes. I find that very nice and refreshing, and that it in a way makes them more sympathetic and interesting.
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Re: Anyone remembers old artstyle?

Post by beetlenaut »

What zookeeper said.
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Re: Anyone remembers old artstyle?

Post by Addryn »

zookeeper wrote:For me, the only attraction of the old style was that they were much simpler and thus easier to make and modify, that was naturally a practical benefit. I don't really miss the style as such. Obviously kitty's and LordBob's style is superior in technical quality, but even aside that I do vastly prefer their character design style, too. I don't want Malin to be a cool pretty boy, I don't want Li'sar to have chainmail bikini and anorexia, and I do like having Haldric look a bit pompous and goofy and Harper clearly be a scruffy peasant. I'm not a fan of the cool hollywood hero types who all have perfect hair and the same body type, and not a single pox mark on their supposedly-medieval face. As far as I can tell, the new portraits portray a pretty impressive range of different personalities and physical attributes and even many of the main characters don't fall into any of the standard tropes. I find that very nice and refreshing, and that it in a way makes them more sympathetic and interesting.
Why is it people always get so hateful when someone expresses dislike for the new art or love of the old art? Seriously, every thread I've searched or seen on the matter (I'm a terrible terrible lurker) always ends up with someone supporting the new art claiming everyone else are sexist jerks that want unrealistic sticks of women, idiots who enjoy overly cliched stereotypes that don't deserve to be in this "oh so up to standards" game, or even that they are childish teenage guys that just want "animu Li'sar" as their girlfriend.

Please, there is no reason to go wild over this thing, yet everyone (particularly those in development and art) does. I mean ,what is up with this- "I don't want Li'sar to have chainmail bikini and anorexia" - "who all have perfect hair and the same body type, and not a single pox mark on their supposedly-medieval face." - these are very negative descriptions and somewhat incorrect description of (presumably) the old artwork that people have already expressed a love for in this thread. Where I come from these words would be described thus- "Them's lookin laik fightin' words!"

I mean look, I can do it too. "The old Li'sar portrait looks like she is drugged or something, like her eye is lazy/dreary back or her eyebrow is too high with her mouth sorta just hanging open. Its weird and comes from the art style trying to appease an anime fetish that is not at all realistic and just looks silly overall when combined with other portrait styles." - but that offers nothing constructive at all, and shows ignorance on my part if anything and hate towards people who already have shown they like the old art compared to the new art. It also offers no real argument besides my opinion alone, which is a very subjective thing from person to person. So what would be a better alternative to this? Maybe I'm asking too much of the internet, but how about a reasonably set forth argument and debate without resorting to such negative/condescending comments. (and lets go with Li'sar on this, just because, admittedly, the HttT art - besides Delfador's awesomeness- is what bugs me the most.)

Example-

My main problem with Li'sar in the new portrait is she looks less like this https://thetvwatchtower.files.wordpress ... rgause.jpg (I believe she was modeled after this person) in terms of her face shape, expressions, and general demeanor, and more like this- https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/56 ... 577a5c.jpg.

The problem here is not the level of attractiveness (I think the White Witch is fairly attractive, and I'm sure nobody is judging me on that :) ), whether she is anorexic or not, or that is anime like, or any of that. Rather it is that the portrayal is wrong. Li'sar is a young princess who turns good and goes to your side through the course of the campaign, and at the end even marries the main character you've been playing as. However, as she stands in the new art, she looks far more stern, older, and even oppressive. Its hard to reconcile that with her eventual role on your side.

While certainly more anime-ish (which I could use less of in Li'sar, considering the rest of the games portrait theme/style), I would think people expect something more like this in regards to her character- http://marfrey.deviantart.com/art/Warri ... -515495430 (its what I could do with a very quick search for "warrior princess" on deviantart, so its what I got. There are probably better examples out there that better express what I mean.)

Also, I find the smile slightly odd/weird. I cannot tell why though, so I won't argue on it, just a mention.

-End

Nothing overtly negative, hateful, or terrible about that argument. Its set out plainly and clearly the problem,allows for visual comparison, and opens for discussion on various points. It admits where I don't have anything to support my opinion as well, and where I am just stating it for the heck of it.
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Re: Anyone remembers old artstyle?

Post by Dugi »

I also think the old style was better. The new portraits are very realistic, but they are pictures of boring and ugly people. Most of them lack the badassery of the old ones. Female portraits used to be pretty. Male portraits used to be cool. Now, most of them are realistic. Boringly realistic. It's like watching the youtube channels about historical combat that show how bad is dual wielding, how useless are many weapons from video games, how unrealistic are depictions of warriors because they often have 15th century armour and a shield but in 15th century shields were useless if one wore armour, why movements like animations in games would get the character killed... Totally takes away the beauty of it.

Of course, there are exceptions. One of them is Delfador, as it was written before. But they are too few.

The drafts for new desert elves are probably the worst. Very dark skin, clothing describable as wrapped in towels. Comes with the new style of elvish faces that are completely inhuman. If you type desert warrior into google images, you find loads of cool looking characters in clothing inspired by desert tribes. But the style chosen was realism, even if the characters aren't human and do not have to have human habits. The dark skin is another weird thing. There's no reason why elves shouldn't have white skin pigment that would help them reflect sunlight. Or pigment that absorbs ultraviolet, but reflects visible, there are many such materials in reality. This game is mostly played by whites who, naturally, think white peoples look good. Also people with darker skin often consider the ones among them whose skin is lighter to be prettier (to the extreme, afaik, Sudanese complain about Arabs getting their women because they are whiter than everyone else there).
Last edited by Dugi on August 20th, 2016, 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Addryn
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Re: Anyone remembers old artstyle?

Post by Addryn »

Dugi wrote: It's like watching the youtube channels about historical combat that show how bad is dual wielding

Duel wielding is terrible, but throwing pommels on the other hand...haha, deadly as it gets.

(please somebody tell me they got that reference)

Also-
"but they are pictures of boring and ugly people."

". The dark skin is another weird thing. There's no reason why elves shouldn't have white skin pigment that would help them reflect sunlight. Or pigment that absorbs ultraviolet, but reflects visible, there are many such materials in reality. This game is mostly played by whites who, naturally, think white peoples look good. Also people with darker skin often consider the ones among them whose skin is lighter to be prettier (to the extreme, afaik, Sudanese complain about Arabs getting their women because they are whiter than everyone else there)."
I think I was asking too much of the internet in my post above.
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Re: Anyone remembers old artstyle?

Post by Iris »

Dugi wrote:This game is mostly played by whites who, naturally, think white peoples look good.
The rest of your post is your opinion and that’s okay, but I’d like to ask you to stop preaching unsourced nonsense like this passage here, in the future.
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zookeeper
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Re: Anyone remembers old artstyle?

Post by zookeeper »

Addryn wrote:Why is it people always get so hateful when someone expresses dislike for the new art or love of the old art? Seriously, every thread I've searched or seen on the matter (I'm a terrible terrible lurker) always ends up with someone supporting the new art claiming everyone else are sexist jerks that want unrealistic sticks of women, idiots who enjoy overly cliched stereotypes that don't deserve to be in this "oh so up to standards" game, or even that they are childish teenage guys that just want "animu Li'sar" as their girlfriend.

Please, there is no reason to go wild over this thing, yet everyone (particularly those in development and art) does. I mean ,what is up with this- "I don't want Li'sar to have chainmail bikini and anorexia" - "who all have perfect hair and the same body type, and not a single pox mark on their supposedly-medieval face." - these are very negative descriptions and somewhat incorrect description of (presumably) the old artwork that people have already expressed a love for in this thread. Where I come from these words would be described thus- "Them's lookin laik fightin' words!"
Well, I was really just using those exaggerations in trying to describe the style I like. In hindsight I guess it comes across as a strawman attack against the old art style, but the point I was going for was more like that I like the plain fact that "chainmail bikini and anorexia" can't apply to the new Li'sar. I didn't mean that it's necessarily what's wrong with the old Li'sar, or that it's what everyone who dislikes the new Li'sar would want to see, only that I find it refreshing in itself that she's so clearly outside that stereotypical box.

Addryn wrote:My main problem with Li'sar in the new portrait is she looks less like this https://thetvwatchtower.files.wordpress ... rgause.jpg (I believe she was modeled after this person) in terms of her face shape, expressions, and general demeanor, and more like this- https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/56 ... 577a5c.jpg.

The problem here is not the level of attractiveness (I think the White Witch is fairly attractive, and I'm sure nobody is judging me on that :) ), whether she is anorexic or not, or that is anime like, or any of that. Rather it is that the portrayal is wrong. Li'sar is a young princess who turns good and goes to your side through the course of the campaign, and at the end even marries the main character you've been playing as. However, as she stands in the new art, she looks far more stern, older, and even oppressive. Its hard to reconcile that with her eventual role on your side.

While certainly more anime-ish (which I could use less of in Li'sar, considering the rest of the games portrait theme/style), I would think people expect something more like this in regards to her character- http://marfrey.deviantart.com/art/Warri ... -515495430 (its what I could do with a very quick search for "warrior princess" on deviantart, so its what I got. There are probably better examples out there that better express what I mean.)
Yeah, I think that's perfectly fair criticism. She could certainly be or become a bit more sympathetic and affable to be more in line with her eventual role.
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Re: Anyone remembers old artstyle?

Post by beetlenaut »

Dugi wrote:the new style of elvish faces that are completely inhuman.
Dugi wrote:But the style chosen was realism, even if the characters aren't human
So, the desert elves are too human, but not human enough? I feel like making you happy would be a really difficult job. :roll:

I think the new desert elves are fantastic and some of LordBob's best design work.
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Re: Anyone remembers old artstyle?

Post by Jetrel »

I completely agree with zookeeper. Our old art style was not unique - it was painfully generic, "seen it all before" anime/fantasy junk. The sort of thing teenagers pump out tons of over on deviantart, and also the sort of thing that only appeals to, well ... teenagers. The problem with that style of art is not just that it's badly done, it's that it's also just really uninteresting - there's not much to read into it. You look at the character's faces, and they don't tell you much about the character's nature, because - if you take off the hair/costuming, all the faces look the same; there's no subtlety in people's expressions; no proverbial "mona lisa smile" that hints at the nature of their character - just a blank, monotonic expression (like the usual anime smile). No thanks.


We decided to buck the trend and hire some people who could actually draw unique and interesting human figures. Weird figures - sometimes ugly figures - but interesting figures, like you'd see in the real world. Ones that get your attention and make you wonder "whoa, what's up with *this* guy?" Ones where you can look at their face and actually see into their soul. This makes us relatively unique, certainly amongst indie games.


I mean, if you're not a fan, that's the nice thing - you can go sign up for one of those many free-to-play games out there with generic art. There are plenty of them. They're a dime a dozen.
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Re: Anyone remembers old artstyle?

Post by Heindal »

However from a ressource perspective we should archive these images in a useable form in case someone wants to reuse them.
Is there some kind of picture archive for battle for wesnoth?
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